Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXI

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txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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That's my point. Backes would see limited PP time here, at least until Williams and/or Oshie moves on. As a result, in order to justify his cost, they'd have to explore ways to get more even-strength production out of him. That's where you explore Kuznetsov on the wing in order for Backes to take the 2C spot. Otherwise you have a $5.5-6.5M checking center. Unlikely that this team is able to surround Backes with the type of talent he needs to be a highly productive scorer in limited 3rd line ice time without a powerplay role (even if they roll the top 3 lines fairly evenly). About 1/3 of Backes' production has typically come from the powerplay.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of upgrading your 3rd line by using your 3C on the 2nd line?

Are you also not asking for trouble by taking your leading scorer who was that based on even strength scoring and monkeying with his game?

Meanwhile when you move Kuznetsov to the wing you then force both Burakovsky and Johansson into a 3rd line role which they are not suited for.

Backes is a real long shot and so most of this is just a waste of energy, but I would think if you can buy Backes, you get him, stick him on the 3rd line with Tom Wilson and have a sitdown with Beagle who was promised that role when he agreed to his contract and see if you can save his attitude.
 

twabby

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Mar 9, 2010
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I guess I'll kind of make a wish list for this offseason. It's by position and obviously only one or two of these players would be able to be acquired due to salary cap limitations, but I think these would be some of the smartest acquisitions:

Center: Frans Nielsen - probably just as good as Backes and will likely not command nearly the salary. Perfect fit as a 3C who can fill in top 6 as needed if there are injuries.

Left wing: James van Riemsdyk - excellent net front presence and already on a very friendly contract. Would easily slot in as a 2LW and would force Burakovsky or Williams down the lineup unless they really impress. Would likely cost a lot in a trade, but for a team in win-now mode it may be worth it.

Right wing: Loui Eriksson - would likely cost a lot as a UFA, but he could slot in as the 2RW or 1RW and push Williams down to the third line where he could be most effective. He has consistently produced though he is getting older and I would expect 20-25 goals rather than the 30 he put up this season.

Left Defense: Brian Campbell - getting up there in years but he had an outstanding season in Florida and has been great throughout his 30s. His age might limit the amount he can get in free agency which would be a great thing if the Capitals offered him, say, 2-3 years at $5M per year. Would immediately be a top 4 LD on this team and could form an extremely effective pairing with Carlson. Would also have the extra benefit of allowing Orlov to stay on the third pairing for now.

Right defense: Tyson Barrie - Colorado has already said he's available on the trade market. It might be possible (though unlikely) to swing a trade to bring Barrie in and get rid of Orpik in one fell swoop because Colorado was also very interested in Brooks Orpik 2 years ago. Good young defenseman with upside who could immediately slot onto the third pairing.
 

Hivemind

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Oct 8, 2010
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Doesn't that defeat the purpose of upgrading your 3rd line by using your 3C on the 2nd line?

Are you also not asking for trouble by taking your leading scorer who was that based on even strength scoring and monkeying with his game?
Are you now seeing my point? Go back and actually read the post that start this conversation.

Meanwhile when you move Kuznetsov to the wing you then force both Burakovsky and Johansson into a 3rd line role which they are not suited for.
Sure they are. The 3rd line doesn't have to be a checking line. That's outdated thinking that doesn't match the reality of the current NHL. The 3rd lines of the teams that are still playing feature guys like Phil Kessel, Nick Bonino, Carl Hagelin, Valterri Filpulla, Jaden Schwartz, Patrik Berglund, and Melker Karlsson. There's a lot of speed and skill involved in those lines, and definitely some score-first players. Two-way lines and depth scoring lines are the 3rd lines of choice, these days.
 

Hivemind

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RIP Heavy Game

That happened last year when they let Joel Ward walk. No player was more important in terms of setting the style of a line's play than Ward. Ward's lines were a staple of the "heavy" cycle and grind style, and pretty much set the team's identity.
 

Dobe*

Guest
Zero chance of a buyout. Orpik haters better hope for a rebound season and an expansion pickup. It's your only hope until the last year IMO.

You mean people who don't like a 5.5 million supposed veteran leader defenseman giving away the series like absolute trash.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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I am listening to what MacLellan is saying and changing the playing style of the team is not on his agenda.
 

Dobe*

Guest
I wonder if there's something that could be done with Montreal as far as Markov for Orpik +

- both older, expensive defensemen.
- Montreal is one of the few teams where Orpik works as a top 4 and wouldn't be just a pure cap dump
-Markov slowed down but is cerebral, great at moving the puck and a buddy of Ovie. Could be an amazing mentor for Orlov, heck even Carlson
-Something like Orpik + 1st + Schmidt/Barber/some other piece they may like

Or something much smaller around Orpik+ for Emelin
 

Hivemind

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I wonder if there's something that could be done with Montreal as far as Markov for Orpik +

- both older, expensive defensemen.
- Montreal is one of the few teams where Orpik works as a top 4 and wouldn't be just a pure cap dump
-Markov slowed down but is cerebral, great at moving the puck and a buddy of Ovie. Could be an amazing mentor for Orlov, heck even Carlson
-Something like Orpik + 1st + Schmidt/Barber/some other piece they may like

Or something much smaller around Orpik+ for Emelin

Markov still has value to Montreal (and other teams) as a left shot PPQB. Unless the Capitals change their PP formation, he doesn't have that value to Washington. I'd obviously do it to unload Orpik, but I don't think it's particularly likely. Someone would be willing to give up something of more value for Montreal, and Montreal wouldn't likely be willing to give up Markov for Orpik alone.
 

HecticGlow

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Mar 14, 2016
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I think the issue is that while you don't want a team to be forced to play a single style of play, you do need to be able to go full throttle with a style if you're going to have one.

We either need a top two lines that are offensive forces, against any opponent, and can rack up the points consistently (with a bottom six that can take out the opposition's depth) or you need to have enough offensive pieces in your bottom six that they can reliably score.

They played Beagle as a fourth line player because they acted like we had a powerhouse third line that could relegate a 'competent' third liner to be an elite fourth liner.

Sandwich Beagle between Mojo and Bura, Williams or a player of that offensive calibre and you'd have an elite top eight, offensively capable ninth (Beagle), and a potentially great fourth line (Williams, Winnik and probably Stephenson) that might chip in goals from time to time, but knows its role is as a shutdown line.

If you can get Stephenson up to a reasonable, consistent NHL level early on then he'd likely be an upgrade on Richards in terms of overall game, which leaves you just one spot in the regular roster to upgrade. Per Khurshudyan quoting Troy Mann of Hershey, the main issues they've got with him are point production ('pass first' instinct) and consistency: having played a lot on checking lines and the PK, while managing to score and rack up some points, he seems like the obvious Richards replacement 4C to start the season to me. And if he doesn't work out, he'll be a massive upgrade on Galiev and Latta as our depth in the press box.

Worst case scenario is that Beagle, with two great wingers, doesn't lead to as much offense as you'd like (I think we need to think of it as a first line, two second lines, and a third line), so you move him to the fourth line and either trade in a 3C, or move Mojo back to Center and trade in another winger. The most acquisitions you've made is two (plus bringing Stephenson up) all season.

Genuinely, I don't think we need to do more than tweak. We were probably 90% there this season - but those 10 percentage points are what killed us. The issue is who you can bring in that's cheap enough, who is consistent and experienced, and an ES producer. If Chimera had maintained his scoring ability (let's not forget he had 20 goals and 40-ish points) in the playoffs we wouldn't have had an issue. If Williams had been his previous playoff self, all would have been well. Whoever we bring in has to be able to perform consistently in the playoffs - and it's clear that's not something you can predict. I mean, Mojo outperformed most of the team, Oshie was a playoff God, Orlov became a stay at home Dman - these aren't things you can predict, especially when bringing someone into a new system.

One thing that has to be better next year is the coaching, though. Trotz and co seemed very bad at understanding what worked and didn't, and why, and terrible at adjusting to the other team. Nothing else will matter if that isn't addressed.
 

Hivemind

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Any mention of Riley Barber?
I know he's not having the best playoffs, but I was hoping he didn't set himself back that far to be off the radar entirely.
 

hockeykicker

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Dec 3, 2014
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Any mention of Riley Barber?

not in either interview today but he did talk about how bringing up tom wilson up early his first year was a mistake and he said he is interested in him maybe earning some powerplay time like zach sill has down in hershey (screening the goalie)
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'm not sure they need to do much outside of tinkering. If Kuz/Bura produced even a little bit and the bottom 6 produced even a little bit then this year's team is in the ECF (at least). Adding some scoring depth and some speed should definitely be a priority, but what needs to be done has much more to do with style of play and cohesion in all three zones than adding talent to the roster. The talent is there. You don't run away with the President's Trophy and come in 2nd in both GF and GA, along with 5th in PP and 3rd in PK, if you don't have a lot of talent. Trotz needs to maximize the talent on the roster, which he hasn't done.

Or IMO, it's not the right mix of talent.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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You mean people who don't like a 5.5 million supposed veteran leader defenseman giving away the series like absolute trash.

Which is it, we have the talent to win, or we don't? You're really pinning giving away the series lost by one goal on one guy? Talk about irrational hate....
 

Langway

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Jul 7, 2006
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Well, they didn't play a heavy game this past season, so....
It's team defense, special teams and...y'know...stuff. Compete-y type stuff. And things.

If Wilson is indeed slotted as a top nine player and they already have seven top six forwards then this entire third line upgrade conversation revolves around a perhaps substantial 3C upgrade. Nothing else really makes sense. That's their major off-season move in the offing it seems. Are they really going to get substantially faster just in adding a Nielsen? Is that really a game-changer?

They're pinning a lot of hopes on further development under a coach that thus far has only proven he can develop one side of the puck (and even that's pretty limited when it comes to their actual defensemen). It sounds like a pretty tall task.
 

artilector

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Jan 11, 2006
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Come to think of it, not sure how the Caps plan to make 3rd line quicker.

They want to coach up Wilson to be Ward 2.0, so he's probably staying there. If you swap with Williams, Williams ain't super speedy, either. Can they really put together a "fast" line with Wilson on it? He's ok, but certainly not above-average fast.

3C, well they had MJ there who is pretty fast. If they are gonna add a decent and fast 3C, hard to afford with MJ... or would they ship out MJ?

Yeah, they can get a quicker guy to put in Chimera's place, but that's about it, unless they make a big change somewhere else, no? If Chimera-MJ-Wilson kind of fizzled out after a hot start... can they really make the line significantly more effective by replacing Chimera with some quicker player?

Meh, just lots of questions at this point. Heavy game vs "faster" game. Future positions of Wilson & Mojo. Everything is vague.

Something tells me they'd need a big change to improve the bottom 6 by more than a marginal amount...
 

artilector

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Jan 11, 2006
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It's team defense, special teams and...y'know...stuff. Compete-y type stuff. And things.

If Wilson is indeed slotted as a top nine player and they already have seven top six forwards then this entire third line upgrade conversation revolves around a perhaps substantial 3C upgrade. Nothing else really makes sense. That's their major off-season move in the offing it seems. Are they really going to get substantially faster just in adding a Nielsen? Is that really a game-changer?

They're pinning a lot of hopes on further development under a coach that thus far has only proven he can develop one side of the puck (and even that's pretty limited when it comes to their actual defensemen). It sounds like a pretty tall task.

Seems to me that a substantial 3C upgrade means no MJ -- at least after next year. When I look at numbers it doesn't really fit... unless they manage to move Orpik's salary, or something.

Wonder if GMBM would consider remaking the bottom-6 at the expense of MJ -- who needs to be either in top-6 or at 3C to justify the salary that's coming to him...
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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At least as far as next season goes I think they could go up to $5M. It depends on just how much the three RFAs come in at but it's possible it's around that. It's possibly a bit less. The question is does that cost them Oshie & Williams the year after and a pretty substantial RW overhaul? Even after that does it work unless the Orpik Expansion Bailout happens? Might they only be developing Orlov to lose him next summer one way or another?

Maybe they've seen the light when it comes to depth down the middle and are prepared for that sort of commitment and eventual restructuring. It would be appealing to be able to put Ovechkin with a Nielsen type and have three lines with pretty good players on paper. But, again, the utilization and development questions still outweigh pretty much everything else.
 

Raikkonen

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Aug 19, 2009
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Hmm... I can come up with one idea only. It's banking cap space.

I mean, 8-19-92-77-14-90-65-43 = 8 players? Winnik, Beagle, Stephenson = 11, and it's pretty cheap. Add Galiev and 1 newcomer - that has to be way lower than the 74M cap.

Then at trade deadline you can strike. There should be some 1-year anti-draft contracts signed this summer too. Pretty good chance somebody will be available.

Banking 2..4M gives you a lot.

I don't like it if Wilson is the one "improving top-9". But I can't come up with better plan according to what was said by GMBM.

Loui or die.
 
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