Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXVII

[hockeykicker]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2004333

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[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Arizona would only trade OEL if he asks for a trade. Arizona is not a farm club that develops players for other teams. Or at least, that's what they have to tell their fans.

Asking for Carlson and Kuznetsov gets GMBM to hang up the phone for sure. So does GMBM asking for OEL. Hence a trade isn't happening. At least not anytime soon.

Asking for OEL doesn't get the phone hung up. It's not an insult and it's not in bad faith like the Kuznetsov+Carlson offer would be. Offer Brooks Laich and a 2nd? Sure, that's an insult. But GMBM calling Maloney and saying "Would you be wiling to talk about moving Ekman-Larsson?" is likely the sort of thing that's commonplace in GM chatter.

 

[895]

Asking for OEL doesn't get the phone hung up. It's not an insult and it's not in bad faith like the Kuznetsov+Carlson offer would be. Offer Brooks Laich and a 2nd? Sure, that's an insult. But GMBM calling Maloney and saying "Would you be wiling to talk about moving Ekman-Larsson?" is likely the sort of thing that's commonplace in GM chatter.

Okay let us take this thought process to its logical conclusion.

Can you make an offer that both sides would accept?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Okay let us take this thought process to its logical conclusion.

Can you make an offer that both sides would accept?

I don't know, as I'm unaware how each side values their assets.

Given the presence of Domi, Duclair, Strome, Rieder, Samuelsson, Dauphin, Perlini, Strome, and Merkley in their system, I'd think Arizona would want a defense/goalie heavy package.

Maybe something around Schmidt/Orlov/Bowey + Grubauer/Samsonov/Vanecek?

It all depends on how much they like those players/prospects. I don't think any of us would have ever thought Copley would carry any value, but St. Louis seemed to value him in the Brouwer/Oshie trade.

 

[Langway]

Any big-time hockey trade is more of an off-season thing most likely, esp. in the event of a disappointing playoff result. The cap may see to it that they have to be active this summer either way.

Add that all up and rentals have to be considered most likely. If they can't find a taker for Laich to take on more salary back--and Orpik isn't on LTIR until the playoffs--then their options get narrower still.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Tomorrow nights game been canceled yet?

 

[Blades of Steel]

Tomorrow nights game been canceled yet?

not yet, still on as of right now

 

[billcook]

Disagree that he's a top 20 defenseman. If we're talking about purely defensive skills? Sure. But not if we're considering overall game. I'd take the following over him:

Doughty
Keith
Karlsson
Subban
Suter
OEL
Faulk
Josi
Weber
Shattenkirk
Pietrangelo
McDonagh
Hedman
Brodie
Burns
Ekblad
Giordano
Klingberg
Byfuglien
Carlson

Bolded are players with softest minutes from table below (either both competition and zone starts are lowest or one of them really low)

Bolded red are players with toughest minutes from table below (either both competition and zone starts are highest or one of them really high)

2007-08/2014-15 [5v5]

Rank | Player | GF% RelTM | OppGF% | DZFO%

1| Aaron Ekblad |6.5|50.6|27.1
2| Kevin Shattenkirk |6.3|50.2|28.6
3| Marc-Edouard Vlasic |5.3|50.4|32.9
3| Mark Giordano |5.1|50.5|34.0
4| P.K. Subban |4.0|50.5|33.1
5| Oliver Ekman-Larsson |3.4|50.9|32.7
6| Alex Pietrangelo |3.4|50.8|31.6
7| Victor Hedman |3.3|50.2|31.9
8| Ryan McDonagh |3.2|50.6|35.4
9| Shea Weber |3.0|50.4|35.8
10| Drew Doughty |2.8|50.6|30.8
11| Brent Burns |2.7|50.2|34.0
12| Roman Josi |2.4|51.2|36.3
13| TJ Brodie |2.4|50.7|37.7
14| Ryan Suter |1.6|50.6|33.1
15| Duncan Keith |1.4|50.5|29.7
16| Erik Karlsson |0.4|50.5|28.8
17| John Carlson |0.3|50.4|32.9
18| Dustin Byfuglien |-0.9|50.1|30.5
19| Justin Faulk |-2.5|50.7|33.1

GF% RelTM - Ratio of GF/GA while player on ice to GF/GA while player off ice.
OppGF% - Quality of competition by GF/GA ratio of opponents (even slight difference is notable)
DZFO% - Faceoff starts in defensive zone

 

[um]

I don't know, as I'm unaware how each side values their assets.

Given the presence of Domi, Duclair, Strome, Rieder, Samuelsson, Dauphin, Perlini, Strome, and Merkley in their system, I'd think Arizona would want a defense/goalie heavy package.

Maybe something around Schmidt/Orlov/Bowey + Grubauer/Samsonov/Vanecek?

It all depends on how much they like those players/prospects. I don't think any of us would have ever thought Copley would carry any value, but St. Louis seemed to value him in the Brouwer/Oshie trade.

you do know OEL is a top 10 defensemen in the NHL right? sure he can be traded more not for B level prospects.

 

[Stewie G]

you do know OEL is a top 10 defensemen in the NHL right? sure he can be traded more not for B level prospects.

Maybe he has a brother like Jamie Benn. That kind of offer would get you the Jordie Benn-level brother.

 

[billcook]

OEL for Schmidt/Orlov/Bowey + Grubauer/Samsonov/Vanecek ...



I mean, I would get it if this was some trolling for Arizona fans on trade boards, but serious proposal on local boards... OMG

 

[Stewie G]

That would get you Oskar Ekman-Larsson.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Brooks Orpik is leading all Caps D guys in PIMS and he has played in 32 less games. Talk about a odd stat.

 

[Gr8SixtyEight]

With all the talk about landing Big Buff, there seems to be much less speculation about the Caps going after Shattenkirk. Does anyone know why that is? IMO, he's one of the best, most versatile defenders in the league and we've already established what seems to be a decent relationship with their GM in St. Louis. To me, offering Laich (Cap dump), 2016 1st, Bowey, and someone like Barber would still be insufficient, but it's worth a shot.

 

[PucksInDeep]

With all the talk about landing Big Buff, there seems to be much less speculation about the Caps going after Shattenkirk. Does anyone know why that is? IMO, he's one of the best, most versatile defenders in the league and we've already established what seems to be a decent relationship with their GM in St. Louis. To me, offering Laich (Cap dump), 2016 1st, Bowey, and someone like Barber would still be insufficient, but it's worth a shot.

1) Why would the Blues give up an important roster player for Laich + futures? At minimum you include Orlov in that deal.

2) I think Buff is unnecessary (would rather have a left-handed shot to go with Alzner, Orpik, Schmidt) but at least he has a physical edge. Shattenkirk is completely redundant - we already have Carlson and Niskanen as the top-2 RD.

3) If we're going after Blues defensemen, Gunnarsson (currently injured) would be a better target, IMO. Lefty, UFA after this season, under $3m cap hit, more of a defense-first kind of guy.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

you do know OEL is a top 10 defensemen in the NHL right? sure he can be traded more not for B level prospects.

OEL for Schmidt/Orlov/Bowey + Grubauer/Samsonov/Vanecek ...



I mean, I would get it if this was some trolling for Arizona fans on trade boards, but serious proposal on local boards... OMG

You do know that Bowey and Samsonov aren't B-level prospects, right? And that Schmidt and Orlov are legit young top-4 guys, right?

Martin Jones yielded a 1st+. If Phoenix feels Grubauer can be a starter, why wouldn't he be worth something similar?

There's also the qualifier of a deal around that combo (in layman's terms: that would be the starting point).

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Maybe he has a brother like Jamie Benn. That kind of offer would get you the Jordie Benn-level brother.

Are you people serious? Schmidt and Orlov are both better than Jordie Benn.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Bolded are players with softest minutes from table below (either both competition and zone starts are lowest or one of them really low)

Bolded red are players with toughest minutes from table below (either both competition and zone starts are highest or one of them really high)

2007-08/2014-15 [5v5]

Rank | Player | GF% RelTM | OppGF% | DZFO%

1| Aaron Ekblad |6.5|50.6|27.1
2| Kevin Shattenkirk |6.3|50.2|28.6
3| Marc-Edouard Vlasic |5.3|50.4|32.9
3| Mark Giordano |5.1|50.5|34.0
4| P.K. Subban |4.0|50.5|33.1
5| Oliver Ekman-Larsson |3.4|50.9|32.7
6| Alex Pietrangelo |3.4|50.8|31.6
7| Victor Hedman |3.3|50.2|31.9
8| Ryan McDonagh |3.2|50.6|35.4
9| Shea Weber |3.0|50.4|35.8
10| Drew Doughty |2.8|50.6|30.8
11| Brent Burns |2.7|50.2|34.0
12| Roman Josi |2.4|51.2|36.3
13| TJ Brodie |2.4|50.7|37.7
14| Ryan Suter |1.6|50.6|33.1
15| Duncan Keith |1.4|50.5|29.7
16| Erik Karlsson |0.4|50.5|28.8
17| John Carlson |0.3|50.4|32.9
18| Dustin Byfuglien |-0.9|50.1|30.5
19| Justin Faulk |-2.5|50.7|33.1

GF% RelTM - Ratio of GF/GA while player on ice to GF/GA while player off ice.
OppGF% - Quality of competition by GF/GA ratio of opponents (even slight difference is notable)
DZFO% - Faceoff starts in defensive zone

You post these stats as if they're meaningful in some way.

 

[billcook]

Samsonov is bluechipper, correct.

Bowey is absolutely b-level prospect (below 'bluechipper').

Schmidt and Orlov are legit top-4 D if you completely ignore sample size. And even if you do combination of those won't return you one of the best D in the world who is 24 and signed through 2019 for 5.5 caphit.

Try posting this proposal on Yotes board.

You post these stats as if they're meaningful in some way.

No, I post these stats because I can not understand what you are talking about.

(At least) Shattenkirk, Ekblad, Burns or Byfuglien are not better than Vlasic overall. You can do better than this.

There's also the qualifier of a deal around that combo (in layman's terms: that would be the starting point).

What are you going to add to make it work hockey and business wise for Coyotes, that it would be not too laughable for them.

 

[txpd]

Brooks Orpik is leading all Caps D guys in PIMS and he has played in 32 less games. Talk about a odd stat.

not really. he is the only caps defenseman that will punch you in the mouth.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

not really. he is the only caps defenseman that will punch you in the mouth.

Matt Niskanen disagrees with you. And so do I.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Caps game now 5pm tomorrow

 

[txpd]

Matt Niskanen disagrees with you. And so do I.

its not hard for me to imagine orpik with more pims. Niskanen has 8 minor penalties. Alzner has 7 and half of those are shooting the puck over the glass.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

its not hard for me to imagine orpik with more pims. Niskanen has 8 minor penalties. Alzner has 7 and half of those are shooting the puck over the glass.

I agree with you that Orpik's game is going to lead to more PIMs, I was just disagreeing that he's the only one who will lay the boom. Nisky has a nasty streak about him that's underrated and that I love.

 

[Raikkonen]

Btw, Versteeg is only 2,2M in caphit and UFA to be. Laich 50% retained will give us Versteeg-over-Laich upgrade this season (at ~same money) and 2,25M relieve next season with 1 more roster slot open.

Banking 2,25M is already good enough for the future deadline deals (Feb 2017).

Another solid/realistic option in my opinion.