Ansar Khan: Abdelkader has a broken face
- Thread starter Winger98
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jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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Hammettf2b
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He was/is on pace for over 40 points this season. He's having a much better season than last.
And Stamkos is on pace for like 140 points
Neither will finish with their current pace
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
I see Stamkos closer to 140 then i do Abby with 40 right now just the way Stamkos and Kucherov are playing.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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The farther that free agency period gets in the rearview mirror, the more ridiculous it looks that Holland ever thought he'd come here.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Looking like Abby is fine he has a face guard and was at practice DDK back at practice hopes to play this weekend needs a few more practices.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
No Daley or Helm at practice hopefully nothing serious with either of them. Edit maintenance day for both Helm and Daley Blash said both expected to play Wednesday night against Calgary.
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Lil Sebastian Cossa
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And yet if he didn't try, he would have been lambasted for that. If he said "We don't need/want Steven Stamkos", people would be calling for his head just the same.
And no, it doesn't matter if YOU in particular or even the HFBoards contingent "you" would not have... if he didn't at least gear up for an effort, the season ticket holders would have been angry. And Stamkos turning down the meeting didn't harm them like it will be made out to be.
And back then, the thought was Detroit/Toronto/Buffalo could drive the bidding up too high and even though Stamkos was a superstar... he'd had an off year (injury related, yes) and Tampa was going to have Kucherov, Hedman, etc... other early 20s studs who were going to need BIG dollars to stay too, so Yzerman might have to bow out if the money got to be too much. Because if you could only afford two huge deals, which two of Kucherov, Stamkos, and Hedman would you want?
At the time of Stamkos's deal... Hedman was in the process of getting extended... and Kucherov didn't take his very team friendly 4.7M extension yet either. It was kind of like Chicago during any of their cap crunches... I'm sure they would have loved to keep Buff or Andrew Ladd or not trade Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns for what ended up being nothing by the end of the year (Oduya --> Scuderi --> Ehrhoff --> Waiver Wire).
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
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Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
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Even so... it was a gamble that I can see why they thought it was worth it. The end goal of a rebuild is to acquire elite talent. Landing Stamkos would have given you that elite talent and pretty much guaranteed the majority of your picks the next couple years would have been defensemen.
It turned bad, as they did not receive their turn to pitch Stamkos as he ended up clearly wanting to stay in Tampa, but they had to make the move to free up the money before they knew that to be the case.
I mean, mid 30s Datsyuk and early 30s Zetterberg had the Wings in the 2nd round up 3-1 on Chicago in the lockout shortened year. A younger, faster superstar could have done exactly the same thing.
It would also have prevented the Helm contract and the Nielsen contract.
Redder Winger
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I had no problem with trading down to free up space to get Stamkos.
I had a problem with drafting Cholowski (not well regarded) and then wasting the cap space on Nielsen and Helm.
I had a problem with drafting Cholowski (not well regarded) and then wasting the cap space on Nielsen and Helm.
They drafted Cholowski and used the extra pick to take Hronek. The trade was great regardless of the Nielsen signing.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Not true. Given that Mrazek and Dekeyser were RFA's and did not need to be signed by July 1st, and were signed much later on, they would have had enough cap space to sign Stamkos and go over the cap by the alotted 10%, and figure out how to shed the cap after.
Im pretty sure after the Datsyuk trade that got us about 19 mil in cap space going into free agency (source). So without it we would have had about 13 million (7.5 Datsyuk caphit - 1.1 Vitale caphit). When the beat writers said the trade was necessary to sign Stamkos, they really meant Stamkos + (eventually) our RFA’s. Now you can argue it would have been very difficult to clear the cap space for our RFA’s after signing Stamkos. I’d agree with that and consider that a valid point. But AFAIK, we could have signed Stamkos straight up without trading Datsyuk. We just would have had to get creative with clearing cap after, or hell, maybe we would have told Helm and Dekeyser to find a new home.
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HIFE
Registered User
Thank you. The Wings knew full well there was no chance of reeling in Stamkos, the two never even spoke. It was only HSJ and other blowhard's random speculations to fill their columns that gave fans an idea there was a possibility. It's 100% fact Holland was never going to sit on Datsyuk's contract if he had to. That OS had NOTHING to do with Stamkos and everything to do with keeping Holland's demented quest for the playoffs alive.
I don't have a problem with moving back in the draft to at least make a run at Stamkos. It didn't work out, but it's something you look to gamble on if you can. We shouldn't have given that massive deal to Nielsen in his stead, though. I get Holland wanting another center after the season Z had but we should have gambled on a guy like Gagner for a year instead and looked to preserve cap space for a future move for an impact player. Nielsen wasn't, and hasn't, going to push us over the top for anything and locking us to that sort of contract was foolish.
Hatter of the Beach
I’m the real hero
Problem is, it wouldn't have prevented the Abdelkader and DeKeyser deals. The Wings trying to sign Stamkos stinks of pre-Matthews Toronto type moves... just kicking the can down the road.
I mean, just look at all the friendly deals on Tampa. A team can't mold that kind of future when they've already spent to the cap limit on garbage... and they only make it worse when they trade futures away in an effort to make space to lure said overpriced FA.
HIFE
Registered User
I've never thought he got beat that bad. Abdelkader has 29 NHL fights which he obviously didn't shy away from. He has earned some degree of respect around the league. For a minute there he really felt like an enforcer for the Red Wings who might take on someone any given night. I stress "might" haha, but he played the role fairly well. He wasn't a true fighter but between he, Ericsson, and Smith the Wings could at least hold there own.
I do think some of his past altercations could come back to bite him. Abbie stirred the pot with a lot of teams. Because of his injuries or whatever he doesn't look physically fit right now to fist fight other bruisers, sorry. Dorsett nearly attacked him last week... that wouldn't have been pretty. It's a positive we have someone other players hate but he's gonna have to be prepared to receive what he's dished out.
HIFE
Registered User
What do you think of the response that Holland (or our new GM, yipee!) could retain salary and move/waive any of the contracts if he wants to? Yes we get taken to the cleaners but space could be made very quickly if need be. It's not the strategy of a contender but as others have argued, what do we need cap space for?
I still think the subject of Stamkos is a red herring. There are back channels where agreements are communicated long before public knowledge; he was never, ever going to Detroit and the Wings knew. How long did Babcrock know he was heading to Toronto? Kenny would make space to bring in Tavares but it's only if JT wanted. I believe the same thing for Green- if he wishes to remain the Wings will not get rid of a player of his caliber.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
If Stamkos hit free agency and we couldn’t make him an offer because of Datsyuk’s cap hit? Yeah, suuuure.
Shush. He's a horrible hockey player because HFBoards told me! Kinda like Nyquist was gonna be the next player to pot 50 goals!
Abdelkader's contract is brutal, no arguing that, doesn't take away from him being a good hockey player.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Except that's not a thing.
We would have had 12-13 million if we did nothing. Had we not moved Datsyuk and had Stamkos would have wanted to come here, we would have done it, and figured out how to shed the cap after.
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
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I don't think that's remotely true. I'm not so naive as to imagine that back channels don't exist... but if you want to play it that way... wouldn't Buffalo KNOW that he wasn't coming there? Montreal? If the deal was already worked out ahead of time... why do any work at all?
Back channel dealings are not remotely binding one way or another. I could tell you today that I'm gonna do something... but do something completely different tomorrow.
