AAA10 Draft Review & Assassination Thread

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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The next line-up to be posted here that has completed 24-pick descriptions on their roster thread post is...

The Montreal Victorias

Coach: Fred Maxwell

Todd Bertuzzi - Clarence McKerrow (C) - Mikael Renberg
Petr Klima - Ivan Boldirev - Wildor Larochelle
Ted Irvine - Terry Crisp - Paul Holmgren
Armand Mondou - Alf Pike - Martin Lapointe
Mike Sillinger

Weldy Young - Fred Maxwell
Doug Lidster - Harold Snepsts
Gary Nylund - Patrice Brisebois
Benny Woit

Vladimir Myshkin
Nikolay Puchkov
Jimmy Foster​

The Victorias have two of the top five or six Soviet goaltenders of all time, and while longtime workhorse Puchkov should be expected to get a lot of regular season starts, the Man in net is world class clutch performer Myshkin, who stoned the NHL's best on more than one occasion, though he's not always money as the Miracle on Ice showed.

Goaltending is helped by a blueline core that's as well built as any in the draft in terms of chemistry and tools. It's all there: passing, checking, special teams, toughness, nastiness, stay at home and rushing, shooters and leaders. I personally cannot recommend any changes in alignment because that is exactly how I would play those guys. Looks great. That said... it's not the best top pairing in the draft nor the greatest depth of talent, though that second pairing may be the best and certainly playable in the MLD without a blink of anyone's eyes (though Snepts might have to see third line minutes in an all-time context because his skating is so bad and more than 8-10 minutes a game is beyond what is needed to maximize his excellence).

The forward core is the polar opposite of the blueline in terms of organization and toolset: what the...? was my thought upon seeing the lines. McKerrow may be the Beliveau of the 1890's but on this team he has a Bus instead of a Rocket. And Renberg on the top line? What is this supposed to be, Legion of Doom AAA? Odd line. The Victorias seriously lack a bona fide first line goal scoring winger, with Larochelle on the second line perhaps the closest to a true finisher, but they do have a few guys who had productive peaks offensively, like Bertuzzi and Klima, polar opposites in the work ethic and ethics department. The second line might produce the most points but the other lines will shake things up and dictate the tempo of play. Crisp has gone in the main ATD without any howls of protest and he's certainly a good fit on a third line primarily defensive in focus, the Victorias' third line being above average in that regard, with wingers who could step it up offensively a bit.

The Victorias of Montreal are a hard working, physical bunch with scoring line centers and offensive defensemen to build team strategies around in terms of puck management on the powerplay, and wingers who can forecheck past defenders and create turnovers. This is a team that will score a lot of scrappy, garbage goals and woe be an opposing team that has neither physical defensemen nor tough wingers. Memo to opponents: score first then look to score an insurance goal on transition, as the Victorias are vulnerable to turnovers when they press the play deep and a Snepts or Brisebois can't handle the sudden odd man rushes going the other way. If goaltending wasn't so good, this team would cook its own goose when trying to get that go ahead or tying goal.
 

VanIslander

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Sep 4, 2004
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Regina Pat Habs

Coach: Darryl Sutter

Don Smith - Craig Janney - Cully Wilson (A)
Carl Liscombe - Gus Bodnar - Glen Murray
Patrik Sundstrom - Craig Conroy - Joe Carveth (A)
Nick Mickoski - Alexei Guryshev - Art Gagne
George Richardson, Frank Rankin

Alex Smith (C) - Albert Langlois
Chris Phillips - Jim McKenny
Joe Reekie - Uwe Krupp
Jack McIntyre

Richard Brodeur
Tomas Vokoun​

With Mr. Stats as the general manager, the Pat Habs were guaranteed to have the sort of goal scoring finshers that the Victorias lack. Gagne and Rankin may be overkill in this regard and tradebait but let's simply call it depth of scoring options on the wing. Add to that two of the most proven, experienced champion passing pivots in this draft and clearly the waves of lines from Regina will put plenty of pucks on net.

A serviceable third line defensively but this team will not succeed by shutting down opposing rushes; not the strongest bunch of penalty killers in this draft by any means but with just enough defensive responsibility up front to man two shorthanded units.

This team will succeed by scoring goals and relying on steady goaltending. Both netminders are workhorses who know how to face a lot of shots. Brodeur is knocked unfairly for goals given up late in his career when the fact is he was a longtime stalwart in the WHA and many a Canuck fan still think King Brodeur was better than Captain Kirk, myself included, game one of the 1994 Stanley Cup be damned!

The blueline is decent but not above average in this draft. I saw Reekie and Krupp play and me thinks the GM oversells them a bit in his self-penned descriptions, though as a third pairing in a AAA draft I say it's not bad, even effective. Phillips was a disappointment early in his career but it's easy to overlook his past mistakes as he matured well later in his career, making safe smart plays and not trying to do too much; he's a nice fit with McKenny. One significant criticism of this defense is the reliance on depth guy Langlois on the top pairing. One would have to assume he was a top pairing sort of guy who simply didn't get much chance to show it in his prime on an NHL team's deep blueline. He's a question mark in that role, surely.

Regina coach Darryl Sutter was a quality pick up though how suited he is to a line-up geared to wide open offensive play is an open question: not many lunch buckets around. Janney certainly will find his inconsistency challenged, though once the playoffs come around he'll do what he's paid for: helping his line score a lot of points.

Overall, the Pat Habs is a team of goals and goaltending, whose top line is potent yet unnecessary with the secondary scoring. It's a puck possession team that won't want to play dump and chase and will likely be doing a lot of perimeter play in the offensive zone, relying on their number one penalty killer in net. One of the difficult opponents for Regina would be a physical team with stellar defense, good forechecking and an effective powerplay. Attempting to run and gun against the Pat Habs at even strength is foolhardy.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
With Mr. Stats as the general manager, the Pat Habs were guaranteed to have the sort of goal scoring finshers that the Victorias lack. Gagne and Rankin may be overkill in this regard and tradebait but let's simply call it depth of scoring options on the wing. Add to that two of the most proven, experienced champion passing pivots in this draft and clearly the waves of lines from Regina will put plenty of pucks on net.

A serviceable third line defensively but this team will not succeed by shutting down opposing rushes; not the strongest bunch of penalty killers in this draft by any means but with just enough defensive responsibility up front to man two shorthanded units.

This team will succeed by scoring goals and relying on steady goaltending. Both netminders are workhorses who know how to face a lot of shots. Brodeur is knocked unfairly for goals given up late in his career when the fact is he was a longtime stalwart in the WHA and many a Canuck fan still think King Brodeur was better than Captain Kirk, myself included, game one of the 1994 Stanley Cup be damned!

The blueline is decent but not above average in this draft. I saw Reekie and Krupp play and me thinks the GM oversells them a bit in his self-penned descriptions, though as a third pairing in a AAA draft I say it's not bad, even effective. Phillips was a disappointment early in his career but it's easy to overlook his past mistakes as he matured well later in his career, making safe smart plays and not trying to do too much; he's a nice fit with McKenny. One significant criticism of this defense is the reliance on depth guy Langlois on the top pairing. One would have to assume he was a top pairing sort of guy who simply didn't get much chance to show it in his prime on an NHL team's deep blueline. He's a question mark in that role, surely.

Regina coach Darryl Sutter was a quality pick up though how suited he is to a line-up geared to wide open offensive play is an open question: not many lunch buckets around. Janney certainly will find his inconsistency challenged, though once the playoffs come around he'll do what he's paid for: helping his line score a lot of points.

Overall, the Pat Habs is a team of goals and goaltending, whose top line is potent yet unnecessary with the secondary scoring. It's a puck possession team that won't want to play dump and chase and will likely be doing a lot of perimeter play in the offensive zone, relying on their number one penalty killer in net. One of the difficult opponents for Regina would be a physical team with stellar defense, good forechecking and an effective powerplay. Attempting to run and gun against the Pat Habs at even strength is foolhardy.

Gagne is probably overkill. (more on that later) He was too good a player to miss this draft, though. Rankin, as an ex-rover, makes a perfect extra because he could fill in at any position, though I'd prefer him at forward. I also didn't want to see a HHOFer slip through the AAA draft.

The two scoring lines are definitely set up with a theme in mind - elite passers setting up great goalscorers. Of course, each line needs its size and/or toughness so I made sure Janney has his Wilson, and Bodnar has his Murray. Playoff matchups this team wins will probably be based on our scoring lines being significantly more accomplished than those of our opponents, while still being cohesive.

I think Conroy is as good as it gets defensively, at this point. His Selke record certainly agrees, and of course this is only one piece of the puzzle but from what I've seen I don't know how we could have done much better. Sell me on a few other players in this draft, I'm not convinced at this point.

Also... thoughts on Sundstrom? This is my 3rd straight time having him. After failing twice with him I decided to let him slide..... and slide............... and slide........... until I was sure he was the best 3rd line option left. Then it turned out when I picked him that he was indeed the best offensive player of his time left (according to numbers, anyway), and he's known for having a good two-way game.

I know this line is a far cry from Rolston-Skrudland-Peters but I don't see why it won't get the job done. It's also pretty potent offensively as far as 3rd lines go.

I know Krupp is the kind of player that can really create divergent opinions. He sometimes seemed to lack the toolbox. By the 1100th pick, I think he's as good as you can get. I knew Reekie would be questioned, and I stand by it. I had the chance to take a guy who certainly has a better "reputation" as a shutdown defenseman (and went to six straight WCF or beyond) and I still passed on him. Malign adjusted +/- if you will (not that you have) but a quick scan of those numbers show that great players gravitate to the top and bad onew gravitate to the bottom. Reekie scores very well, and you can choose what to make of it, but it is a fact that throughout his career, his teams did much better when he was on the ice at even strength, than when he wasn't. Anyway, I'm on a tangent now...

Langlois was actually paired with Harvey before and after they were both traded to the Rangers, so he can handle top-pairing minutes.

Not enough lunchpail in the bottom-six? Probably true. As I said, Gagne is overkill so let's switch him with Jack McIntyre. McIntyre played both wings and was more of a defensive-minded utility guy. I think that makes a big difference there.

Thanks for the comments. I'll be trying to do 2-3 critiques of my own tonight.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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The Ice Cream Men and Sharks have not been assassinated yet.

Their 2-3 line descriptions are not finished, but they should at least be reviewed. Have at it guys.

Kyle McMahon said:
Hopefully I can do some good assassinatin' later on.
promises,
Hedberg said:
I will comment on other teams a bit later...
promises,
seventieslord said:
I'll be trying to do 2-3 critiques of my own
promises.
 

chaosrevolver

Snubbed Again
Sponsor
Nov 24, 2006
16,876
1,072
Ontario
CR, use Yashin as your #1. Zhamnov should be a #2, or a #4 if you want it to be a pure offensive line. Yashin is your most talented player. Top-3 in the draft, too. I don't need to tell you the reasons you were able to get him at such a discount. Now that he's yours, you sink or swim with him. He doesn't do you any good an a pouty extra. Base your offense on him. just don't expect him to be the team's source of leadership.
Darcy Rota - Alexei Yashin - Haviland Routh
Andre Boudrias - Pelle Eklund - Steve Sullivan
Miroslav Satan - Ted Hampson (A) - Pat Flatley (A)
Greg Gilbert - Art Jackson - Glenn Brydson
Alexei Zhamnov

That is our forward plans.

Defense is still up in the air. But as of now..im not totally against keeping it the way it is. Any suggestions would be helpful.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
4,353
Lynnmour Ice Cream Men

Coach:Glen Sonmor
Asst Coach:Larry Robinson


Martin Straka - Mike Walton - Bud Poile
Butch Keeling (A) - Ed Olczyk - Tony Tanti
Jorgen Pettersson - Larry Patey - Bobby Gould
Bep Guidolin - Dave Creighton - Kevin McClelland
Henrik Sedin


Dale Tallon - Pierre Bouchard
Oleg Tverdovsky - Hugh Bolton
Al Dewsbury - Moe Mantha
Brian Campbell


Kelly Hrudey
Felix Potvin

Well my assassination won't be of VI quality, but I'll give it a shot.

One thing that stands out is that you drafted mainly goal-scorers in your top-6 forwards. Tanti and Poile are definitely snipers, while Eddie O and Shaky Walton had a fairly high goal to assist ratio for centermen. Keeling is a scorer as well. Straka might in fact be your best set-up man, but you have him at LW. I'd consider moving him to center to better utilize his passing ability, because you are probably going to need it.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to cut this short unexpectedly :help:. I'll try to give you some more later on.
 

Hedberg

MLD Glue Guy
Jan 9, 2005
16,399
12
BC, Canada
Well my assassination won't be of VI quality, but I'll give it a shot.

This applies to my review as well.

China Sharks
Coach: Red Berenson

Fred Whitcroft - Billy McGimsie - Cecil Blachford (C)
Murph Chamberlain - Ryan Getzlaf - Serge Bernier
Bohuslav Stastny - John Mayasich (A) - Ronald Pettersson
Nick Libett (A) - Pete Stemkowski - Dallas Drake

Miroslav Dvorak - Risto Siltanen
Niklas Kronwall - Pavel Kubina
Roland Stoltz - Lasse Bjorn

Peter Lindmark
Cam Ward​

- Stoltz/Bjorn may be the best bottom pairing defence in this draft. I had coveted them for my third pairing.
- The positional versality of John Mayasich and Ronald Pettersson is a big plus
- I really like the pre-NHL line. This seems like the last era that the ATD seems unsure of. Blachford appears to be the best of the line.
- Looking at his Canada Cup stats, Lindmark appears to be a very good selection, perhaps among the best goaltenders in this draft
- Berenson is a solid choice. Coaching seems to be the area with the least depth, so in the AA draft it becomes about finding a coach that suits your team. Berenson’s style of offence and hard work fits your team. While I’ve been researching your team nearly all your players have been described as hard working.
- Siltanen, although he was referred to as “The Littlest Hulk”, at 5’9, 158 pounds he may have difficulty against big forwards
- Mayasich may be the most intriguing pick of the draft. I highly doubt he would have been a “a bigger, stronger, back-checking Gretzky.” He is a “what-if” case, as projecting how good he would have been at the pro level is difficult. He wasn’t dominant at either of the Olympics he played in and his numbers with the Green Bay Bobcats were not anything special. I'm personally not sold him as outside of his college stats, which are comparable to several other college players who did little at the pro level, his stats are nothing amazing. Mariucci is hyperbolizing way too much in his assessment of Mayasich.
- Chamberlain may be more suited to a third line, as while he was a clutch scorer, he wasn’t a great regular season scorer. I would consider switching him with Bohuslav Stastny. The second line seems to have enough size on it already and Chamberlain would make the third line harder to play against.
- Although he's certainly worth taking with his Conn Smythe and great post-season play in 2006, Cam Ward seems to be an average goalie who had a phenomenal hot streak. This season will be the first in his career where he has had a sv% over .905.
 
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Know Your Enemy

Registered
Jul 18, 2004
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391
North Vancouver
Well my assassination won't be of VI quality, but I'll give it a shot.

One thing that stands out is that you drafted mainly goal-scorers in your top-6 forwards. Tanti and Poile are definitely snipers, while Eddie O and Shaky Walton had a fairly high goal to assist ratio for centermen. Keeling is a scorer as well. Straka might in fact be your best set-up man, but you have him at LW. I'd consider moving him to center to better utilize his passing ability, because you are probably going to need it.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to cut this short unexpectedly :help:. I'll try to give you some more later on.
I'm not worried about Olczyk's playmaking, he was a strong passer. 3 times he had 50 or more assists.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
4,353
I'm not worried about Olczyk's playmaking, he was a strong passer. 3 times he had 50 or more assists.

No, not a bad passer by any means, but he liked to shoot as well. He just may not be "the best" option to have between two players who were predominantly scoring wingers. But the line will still generate some goals.

I really like your checking line. Petterson and Patey are guys that are easy to overlook since the era they played in instantly makes you think offense. Petterson brings outstanding offensive ability for a player suited to a third line role.

You should get an honest day's work from Hrudey between the pipes. While he was probably never quite an elite netminder, he had his moments. The Easter Epic in 1987, and the Kings' run in 1993. Despite letting in four goals in the Game 7 win over Toronto (and Potvin coincidentally) to get to the Final, I thought Hrudey was actually LA's best player and the reason they won that game, even though Gretzky had five points.

There's really not a lot to criticize on your defense corps. Tallon gives you an elite offensive blueliner at this level, and you've got plenty of toughness to back him up out there.

In short, I think you've assembled a pretty fine squad that should be a contender in the playoffs.
 

Triffy

Registered User
Jun 23, 2006
337
3
Helsinki
I was trying to find data to back it up that Oksanen is good enough to play in the first line. I found out something else instead. It looks like Lasse Oksanen actually played left wing. He's listed as right winger on eurohockey.net and wikipedia but that seems to be wrong. I guess this could be used as a source. When you scroll down, you see the annual all-star selections. And look at the next seasons he's always listed on the same side and I know for sure that player A for example was a left wing and he's always listed to the other side.

My line combinations will have to be changed a bit. Hagman will be dropped out of the lineup.

The new line combinations:

Jim Riley - Vyacheslav Bykov - Grant Warwick
Lasse Oksanen (A) - Nils Nilsson - Vlastimil Bubnik
Ville Peltonen (A) - Raimo Helminen (C) - Pentti Lund
Bill Warwick - Mikko Koivu - Sami Kapanen
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,271
6,477
South Korea
Hedberg's review of the Sharks was thorough so I'll move on to assassinate

Lynnmour Ice Cream Men

Coaches:Glen Sonmor, Larry Robinson

Martin Straka - Mike Walton - Bud Poile
Butch Keeling (A) - Ed Olczyk - Tony Tanti
Jorgen Pettersson - Larry Patey - Bobby Gould
Bep Guidolin - Dave Creighton - Kevin McClelland
Henrik Sedin

Dale Tallon - Pierre Bouchard
Oleg Tverdovsky - Hugh Bolton
Al Dewsbury - Moe Mantha
Brian Campbell

Kelly Hrudey
Felix Potvin​

The Ice Cream Men need to juggle some lines. Kyle McMahon is absolutely right in speaking of Straka as this team's best passer and he's shown it at the center position so should be playing it. The adjustment couldn't be easier because Tanti has played left wing, so slides onto the top line, and Olczyk played right wing as well as center (in fact, his repeated moving from center to wing is said to be part of his career long problem, of not having settled in and developed his game to its full potential) so simply bump Walton onto the second line and voila:

Tony Tanti - Martin Straka - Bud Poile
Butch Keeling (A) - Mike Walton - Ed Olczyk

A passer, a finisher and a big guy for each line. Tanti has the wheels to play the top line and Straka the hockey sense and passing to get him the puck at opportune moments. Boosts scoring by the Ice Cream Men by at least 10% I'd say.

The third line is above average defensively in this draft and that fourth line may be the best or the worst fourth line, depending on which versions of them show up, the NHL performers during their peak or the AHLers and other minor leaguers they were when sent down. Guidolin scored six times in double digits in the O6 era with healthy PIM so his peak was constant enough for long enough to be expected to hold his own effectively on the back line of an AAA all-time team. Creighton three times notched 20 goals in the fifties and had three other decent scoring NHL seasons, playing in several NHL all-star games, in addition to a long AHL career. McClelland cannot be expected to score at all given his marginal numbers in the high flying eighties, but he will take a lot of PIM and play enforcer to keep the opposing team honest, perhaps even take out a scoring line tough guy on matching fighting penalties.

The Lynnmour lines might not play the puck possession game as well as some teams in this draft but there is depth of scoring, championship experience and toughness and the tools for effective special teams units. Add to that obvious talent in net with steady Hrudey and streaky Potvin. And so we come to the part of the Ice Cream Men that could melt down: the blueline.

The defense in Lynnmour will struggle to handle multiple odd-man rushes against, as both Tverdovsky and Mantha are prone to defensive lapses in addition to risky pinching in pursuit of their indeed excellent offensive play. And having the Habs policeman and depth defenseman on the top pairing handling heavy minutes against the opposition's top lines is the opposite of sweet, however you might want to sugar coat it. Too many question marks. This team needs its seventh defenseman to dress in the worst possible way: Campbell can skate, pass and hit at an NHL elite level and he has demonstrated more positional hockey sense in his 7+ years than Oleg and Moe showed me their whole careers. Suggestion: Bench one of the offensive-minded guys and start the NHL 2nd team all star.

The Ice Cream Men have the tools to take on the toughest teams, to move the puck up ice and on net from the blueline to the wings in transition, and to handle traffic at both ends of the ice, clearing and crashing creases. Chemistry can improve with some adjustments to the line-up formations. It's a team that will want to slow the pace of the game down, as its goaltending and defense doesn't want too often to face opposing scoring lines sweeping in. The coaches in Lynnmour have experience exceeding expectations, and this squad may go further than projected on the strength of its toughness, championship experience and peak scoring up and down the line up. A wild card.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,271
6,477
South Korea
TODAY, SATURDAY is VOTING DAY! If you cannot do it today, PM me and indicate how early tomorrow you could do it. We want to have the playoffs begin by Sunday evening.

PM me your ranking of the teams from 1st to 8th (exclude your own team) in terms of how you think they'd fair over a long regular season in this all-time context. Also, aside from that, PM me a list of individual players you think deserving of MLD or maybe even ATD selection - an all-star team of the AAA draft's best. Usually we send in a list of three forwards, two defensemen, a goalie and a coach, but given how we have less GMs it helps get clarity in tallying votes if we include more.

So also PM me ALL-STARS and MLD/ATD draft worthy picks:

Top 10 forwards ranked from 1st to 10th (not from your own team)
Top 5 defensemen ranked from 1st to 5th (not from your own team)
Top 3 goalies ranked from 1st to 3rd (not from your own team)
Top 2 coaches ranked 1st and 2nd (not from your own team)
and
Top 3 picks from your own team! (could be any combination of forwards, dmen, goalies, coaches)
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,271
6,477
South Korea
8 of the 9 teams have been assassinated on this thread.

The GM of the ninth team didn't finish his descriptions because his priority was on other things (like 8-10 hours on this thread). So it's fitting his team wasn't reviewed. He did post a lot of info when he made his picks though. Good enough it'll have to be.

I expect to be away until Sunday morning.
 

Spitfire11

Registered User
Jan 17, 2003
5,049
242
Ontario
This applies to my review as well.



- Stoltz/Bjorn may be the best bottom pairing defence in this draft. I had coveted them for my third pairing.
- The positional versality of John Mayasich and Ronald Pettersson is a big plus
- I really like the pre-NHL line. This seems like the last era that the ATD seems unsure of. Blachford appears to be the best of the line.
- Looking at his Canada Cup stats, Lindmark appears to be a very good selection, perhaps among the best goaltenders in this draft
- Berenson is a solid choice. Coaching seems to be the area with the least depth, so in the AA draft it becomes about finding a coach that suits your team. Berenson’s style of offence and hard work fits your team. While I’ve been researching your team nearly all your players have been described as hard working.
- Siltanen, although he was referred to as “The Littlest Hulkâ€, at 5’9, 158 pounds he may have difficulty against big forwards
- Mayasich may be the most intriguing pick of the draft. I highly doubt he would have been a “a bigger, stronger, back-checking Gretzky.†He is a “what-if†case, as projecting how good he would have been at the pro level is difficult. He wasn’t dominant at either of the Olympics he played in and his numbers with the Green Bay Bobcats were not anything special. I'm personally not sold him as outside of his college stats, which are comparable to several other college players who did little at the pro level, his stats are nothing amazing. Mariucci is hyperbolizing way too much in his assessment of Mayasich.
- Chamberlain may be more suited to a third line, as while he was a clutch scorer, he wasn’t a great regular season scorer. I would consider switching him with Bohuslav Stastny. The second line seems to have enough size on it already and Chamberlain would make the third line harder to play against.
- Although he's certainly worth taking with his Conn Smythe and great post-season play in 2006, Cam Ward seems to be an average goalie who had a phenomenal hot streak. This season will be the first in his career where he has had a sv% over .905.

Thanks for the review Hedberg!
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
Sorry guys. I just clicked on an ad by accident when scrolling and lost an entire assassination of Hedberg's team. I want to cry.

I have to go play hockey now. I don't know if I have it in me to redo the whole thing when I get back. I'm really pissed right now.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
Yeah, so I wanted to stay up until about 4AM assassinating all of you last night. Instead, I fell asleep at midnight watching TV with the wife... had a great review of Hedberg written up, and clicked on an ad. It's mostly still all in my head, so while I watch my Leafs lose, I may as well put it all back together....

As I said once before losing this post, the team that I find it easiest to get a read on, is Linmour, but they've had one and a half assassinations done already .

Arturs Irbe
Bert Lindsay

Bob Murray - Bruce Driver
Haldor Halderson - Eric Brewer
Allan Shields - Warren Godfrey
Anders Eldebrink

Fred Scanlan - Cliff Ronning - Arthur Farrell
Yuri Blinov - Sergei Shepelev - Yevgeny Zimin
Thomas Vanek - Shorty Green - Joe Benoit
Bob McDougall - Jaroslav Holik - Scott Young
Gordon Pettinger - Kelly Buchberger

I'm quite impressed with this team.

In net, you have Irbe, who I would have been just as satisfied with in net as I am with Brodeur. He carried the 2002 Canes to the finals, destroying my Leafs. Aside from 2002, his career was up and down, ranging from poor to good. But let's not forget his time with Dynamo Riga in the Russian league. He was top-5 in MVP voting three times. Along with Bykov, that was the most among all available players in this draft. Bert Lindsay was also one of my top choices for a backup.

I really like your top pairing. Murray and Driver are both puck-movers but are also not big risk takers. Obviously, when they both have 480+ career points and lasted this far into the draft, they are not shutdown-caliber defensemen in their own end. But, as someone who has had Bob Murray twice, I can tell you I haven't read that he was a liability, either. One thing I noticed about both these guys when researching for the MLD, is that despite their high career totals, neither of them have been in the top-15 among defensemen in points in any season. That said, to get the totals they did, they had to be remarkably consistent. They are both what I'd call "safe" picks. They also have pretty good playoff numbers. My concern is that with these guys as your top offensive blueliners, you don't have anyone who can be that elite offensive blueliner, who can move the puck consistently and run a top-notch PP. There's no Jim McKenny, Jocelyn Guevremont, Risto Siltanen, or Dale Tallon. I wouldn't say you're up the river because of this, but it is a question mark. There is a chance that these two can work as a tandem in that regard.

The second pairing is also pretty solid. Brewer is the kind of player who will be a "love him or hate him" pick. On one hand, when I picked Regehr way back in the MLD, that left Brewer as the only available player to represent Canada in a best-on-best twice in the past 15 years. That alone speaks volumes. On the other hand, he has been underwhelming offensively and has been a plus player just once in his career. His decision-making isn't always the best, and he has been injury prone. perhaps this is the reason he takes exception to being hit. However, you found a fantastic player to pair with him. Slim Halderson is a solid player, as his two PHCA All-Star selections can attest to. He had good offensive numbers and, his size is absolutely massive considering the era. By my adjustment formula, he'd be 6'7", 240 lbs by today's standards. If Halderson had stuck around in the newly consolidated NHL longer than one season and past age 30, I think he'd be an ATD mainstay. Instead, he went and dominated the AHA for almost a decade longer (three AST selections in eight seasons) - and for those of you who have wondered about the AHA when researching your players, this was a really good league. Officially, they were considered a minor league but they were as close to the NHL, as the WHA was 40 years later. Take a look at some rosters. There are a lot of great names there, usually winding down their careers. Too many to count.

On the third pairing, I really like what you have managed to find. Al Shields looks like a poor man's version of our captain and #1 defenseman, Alex Smith. Shields was 8th, 9th, 9th, 11th in scoring by defensemen, won one cup and had underwhelming playoff numbers. Over the span of Shields' career, he was the 12th-highest scoring D-man and was easily the highest on that list at the time that you chose him. The exact same thing can be said about his partner, Godfrey.

In all, I see this as a defense corps that lacks a true offensive blaze of a defenseman, and it lacks a true shutdown player. But in total, it is very strong and VERY balanced. The difference between your top pairing and your third pairing is minimal... that is, if there is a difference at all.

As I mentioned earlier, I really like that you were able to grab Scanlan and Farrell together. Can't argue with taking a hall of famer. These are two guys who could really shine with an offensive whiz at center. Unfortunately, this brings us to the biggest question mark on the team. Did you neuter your first line by giving them Cliff Ronning as a center? Although a competitive little guy in the Saku Koivu mold, Ronning was not physical, a great two-way player, or a goalscorer. Playmaking was his bread and butter. But as good as he was at making plays, he peaked at 13th in the NHL in assists in 1998, and aside from that, never came within four assists of the 20th-place playmaker on the leaderboard. I think Ronning is a serious cut below most of the other #1 centers in this draft. Trihey propped up Scanlan and Farrell, now, can they prop up Ronning?

VI, who is much more educated and well-spoken on Russian hockey, summed up the second line better than I could ever hope to. I'll get to his level, but I'm not there yet.

Vanek is an interesting choice as a 3rd line LW. I like to see defensive players there. On one hand you could point to the fact that he led the NHL in +/- in his sophomore season. On the other hand, he was a minus in his other two seasons and rarely, if ever, kills penalties. Still, he has a fantastic skillset and is in the midst of his second "top-10 in goals" season. With a career this young I have to look at him as an "inconsistent" player and not assume that 10 years down the road he'll be a 1000 point scorer. Still, at his best, he's been as good as Sheppard, Murray, and other AAA wingers like that, just without the demonstrated track record aside from that. Green and Benoit aren't defensive players either, so this squad appears ready to just play balls-to-the-wall offense.

I think you've done a really good job putting together an energy line on the 4th. Young is good at so many things, but great at nothing (aside from skating) - I can see him forechecking hard and digging up some loose pucks here and there. I think he's an ideal 4th liner. Holik was a robust, competitive player (sounds a lot like his son) and will do well here. With those two guys as a starting point, you could have gone either way with your 4th line, making it a scoring line or a grind line. With McDougall you have chosen the former. He was the top player on 4 cup winners and with little info to really go by other than his stats, I see him as a scorer.

You've done well. Very strong in net, strong and balanced on D, lots of offense in the forwards, but perhaps not enough on your first line.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
May as well take a shot at the only one that hasn't been done yet:

Spokane Canaries

coach: Dr. Jan Starsi

captain: Thomas Gradin
alternate: Lee Fogolin Jr.
alternate: Lou Nanne

Bob MacMillan - Thomas Gradin (C) - Andrei Khomutov
Patrick Marleau - Jason Allison - Eddie Wiseman
Don Grosso - Billy Harris - Ray Sheppard
Lorne Henning - Stephane Yelle - Billy Bell
Russ Courtnall

Lee Fogolin Sr. - Lee Fogolin Jr. (A)
Reg Hamilton - Karel Gut
Lou Nanne (A) - Lyle Odelein
Alexei Zhitnik

Joe Daley
Viktor Zinger
Don Beaupre


Short 2-3 line descriptions of picks:

Lee Fogolin Sr. was a rugged, solid positional defenseman known for bone-crunching bodychecks, playing tough defense and was self assured moving the puck up ice, said to be one of Chicago's best players for years, he won the Stanley Cup in 1950 and played in two all-star games, recording 575 PIM in 427 games over a 9-year NHL career.

Lee Fogolin Jr. was a rugged, gritty physical presence on the blueline capable of moving the puck to help the transition game on the early Oilers teams, playing a leadership role providing steady stability on Edmonton's first two Stanley Cups, the team captain before Gretzky took over, he registered 1318 PIM over a 13-year NHL career.

Thomas Gradin captained Team Sweden to the finals of Canada Cup '84 and led the Canucks in scoring four consecutive postseasons, including a trip to the Stanley Cup Finals, scoring 593 points in 677 NHL games; an excellent 42 pts in 42 NHL playoff games as the Canucks went to the playoffs six consecutive seasons with him as a passing pivot who could handle the physical play when it came his way.

Andrei Khomutov was a speedy right winger on the great Soviet teams from winning Canada Cup '81 to the World Championships in 1993, altogether winning six world championships and three Olympic gold medals, two time top scorer of WC, Soviet league MVP in 1990 and Soviet league top scorer in 1988, playing key role in winning RendezVous '87 and 1992 Olympics and scored 4 goals and 7 points in Canada Cup '87.

I guess I'll start with goal again. I see this as a team that has three backups and no starter. Zinger was one of my favourite backup choices, and asking Daley to be a starter with nothing but WHA playoff experience is asking a lot of him. I'm not sure what the thought process was behind selecting Don Beaupre. It's not that he's THAT bad (I see him as a AA caliber goalie) but why have a third?

They have some great help on the blueline, though. I think that your top pairing could have been had a bit later in the draft, but they are a solid pair and I think the built-in family chemistry has to help, too. Hamilton makes a good partner for the risk-taker, Gut, who is going to keep the fans on the edges of their seats. Nanne and Odelein will make a decent 3rd pairing with good hitting and shot-blocking capabilities. As with the previous lineup, my concern is that there is no one with exceptional puck-moving and offensive ability on this blueline. Gut is, by far, the closest to that that you've got. His international credentials are good, and it's tough to gauge how to gauge his 1950's Czech League accomplishments. Zhitnik should maybe be a better-received pick than he is, considering he was his team's #1 defenseman for the better part of a decade.

MacMillan is OK offensively, but from what I have seen, are you sure you don't want to make better use of his defensive ability by putting him on the 3rd line? I'm not sure what Sheppard brings to that 3rd line. He'd be more useful, IMO, as a LW on the 1st line, even if that's his wrong wing. Gradin is a guy who was near the top of my list for centers, as was Allison, despite his attitude and conditioning. His passing could suit Sheppard well if you were to move him there. As it is, the line has significant ability. Khomutov is a guy I've never been able to get a good read on. I've always seen him as the guy who became the best player in the Russian league after all the best players left. Now that I put it that way, and considering who those "best players" were, that probably makes him a really good option in the AAA.

Marleau is an interesting choice. How much LW has he played? This is the only season that he's been anything close to an elite offensive player. But then, he's got great size, has been good in the playoffs (the numbers say so, but he has also been criticized before too), and has missed 25 games in 11 seasons. He's more of a goalscorer than a playmaker, so it makes sense that he'd be paired with a guy like Allison. Wiseman is a great RW with good goal-scoring ability. I think fundamentally this line should work though I wonder if you could have found a more established offensive player than Marleau.

The third line could be the best 3rd line in the draft, if you had anyone other than Ray Sheppard there. The quotes you posted about The Count show that he was a good checker, and Hinky Harris is certainly no secret. There is also significant defensive ability in your 4th line. Yelle was one of the best centers left for that role, and Henning is well-known. Bell's offensive numbers make him look like a scrub, but he is a good defensive player and checker. It should do its job as an energy line with good defensive ability. I suspect all three of these guys will get time on the PK as well.

This team's offense is going to come solely from its top two lines and Karel Gut. Practically the whole team can play defense well, and their mediocre goalie will need them to. It's a combination that could pay off if these guys limit the shots against.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,130
7,215
Regina, SK
I have to correct a mistake I made. In assessing Hedberg's lineup I pointed out that neither Driver nor Murray was ever in the top-15 in points by a defenseman. That is incorrect. They were never in the top-10, but did make the top-15 - Murray 3 times (11th, 13th, 14th) and Driver once (13th)
 

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