AAA10-AAA Quarterfinal Round: #1 Regina Pat Habs vs. #9 Helsinki Huskies

[VanIslander]

This should be an interesting series.

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

AAA10-AAA Quarterfinal Playoff Round:


Regina Pat Habs

Coach: Darryl Sutter

Don Smith - Craig Janney - Cully Wilson (A)
Carl Liscombe - Gus Bodnar - Glen Murray
Patrik Sundstrom - Craig Conroy - Joe Carveth (A)
Nick Mickoski - Alexei Guryshev - Art Gagne
George Richardson, Frank Rankin

Alex Smith (C) - Albert Langlois
Chris Phillips - Jim McKenny
Joe Reekie - Uwe Krupp
Jack McIntyre

Richard Brodeur
Tomas Vokoun



vs.



Helsinki Huskies

coach: Kalevi Numminen

Jim Riley - Vyacheslav Bykov - Grant Warwick
Lasse Oksanen (A) - Nils Nilsson - Vlastimil Bubnik
Ville Peltonen (A) - Raimo Helminen (C) - Pentti Lund
Bill Warwick - Mikko Koivu - Sami Kapanen
David Vyborny, Matti Hagman

Sergei Babinov - Nikolai Makarov
Tapio Levo - Willie Mitchell
Pekka Marjamäki - Sami Salo
Petteri Nummelin

Seth Martin
Urpo Ylönen​

 

[seventieslord]

Good luck to Helsinki.

Jack McIntyre, a defensive forward, will become our 3rd line RW, bumping Carveth to the 4th line and Gagne to the press box. If we ever need a defenseman due to injury or shuffling, either McIntyre or Rankin can fill in.

 

[Triffy]

This is definitely an interesting test for my team. Facing the regular season winner is not something you want at this point of the playoffs, but in the end, you must be able to win them all. After the hard fought battle against the Sharks, my team will be ready to go right from the start.

The main problem with Finnish teams is that they don't have the top end talent at the scoring lines. Checking lines aren't the problem. But Finns usually struggle to score against the the favorites. That could be a mental problem. Or maybe it's just lack of skill. Whatever it is, it certainly isn't problem for the Huskies. With three all-stars on my scoring lines, my team will be able to produce against anyone.

And it's not just my forwards that are capable of scoring. My first pairing consists of two former Soviet greats. And you've all seen the Soviets play. The defensemen are used to getting involved in the offense. With Babinov and especially marvelous skater Makarov playing behind the Bykov line, the drop passes will cause a lot of trouble to Regina's slow-footed defensemen. Remember, Makarov is the 6th highest scoring defenseman in the history of the Soviet league.

The Soviet defensemen are asked to play as much as they can without sacrificing their level of play. When they are not on the ice, Tapio Levo and Willie Mitchell will have the main responsibility. Levo was his team's best offensive defensemen in both of the seasons he played in the NHL. He's a forgotten star even in Finland. Rarely you hear anyone talk about him. But he's arguably on the same level with Pekka Rautakallio who was rightfully used as a first pairing defenseman in the MLD. The difference between them is that Rautakallio player a couple of years more in Norhtern America. And he played in Calgary two seasons. Levo played in Colorado Rockies and in the Mickey Mouse Devils, not the sexiest teams in the league in the early 80's.

I think I'll have to do a change to my lineup. I'll move Sami Salo to the third pair and drop Nummelin out of the lineup. My team is going to miss Nummelin's extraordinary skill set but I don't want to risk my team's defense by playing the tiny d-man on even strenght against a strong team like Regina. My team has plenty of fire power on the blueline for the power play even without him. Salo is also able to play on PK, which will lighten Willie Mitchell's responsibility. Makarov will be released from PK duties and he will be asked to concentrate on PP and ES only.

 

[vancityluongo]

Good luck Triffy. I'm expecting that this will be a much harder series than the seeding may indicate, as I really like your team.

To start, something I've been wondering about and wanted to point out in your last series, I notice that you don't have Salo and Mitchell together. Given their natural chemsitry in real life as the Canucks top pairing, I thought you'd jump on that.

I'll point out some other things about both teams later if I can, but as a Nucks fan, I just wanted to mention that.

 

[Triffy]

To start, something I've been wondering about and wanted to point out in your last series, I notice that you don't have Salo and Mitchell together. Given their natural chemsitry in real life as the Canucks top pairing, I thought you'd jump on that.

First of all, thanks for the supportive words.

But the thing is, I think Levo is my 3rd best defenseman. He's better than Salo. Better than Mitchell. I don't want to give him third pairing minutes because of real life chemistry of Salo and Mitchell, even though I value that in case of a long lasting partnership. That's why I liked the Sharks' third pairing.

 

[VanIslander]

Wednesday is Voting Day

 

[vancityluongo]

First of all, thanks for the supportive words.

But the thing is, I think Levo is my 3rd best defenseman. He's better than Salo. Better than Mitchell. I don't want to give him third pairing minutes because of real life chemistry of Salo and Mitchell, even though I value that in case of a long lasting partnership. That's why I liked the Sharks' third pairing.

So does that mean you don't think Marjamäki could handle second pairing minutes with Levo, with Mitchell-Salo as your third pairing?

I ask this because one of the things I've seen questioned about your squad is the defensive depth. The Soviet top pairing has received many compliments, and I'm gonna take your word about Levo being comparable to Pekka Rautakallio. After that though, it's a bit of a question mark I think. I know Mitchell and Salo, and I'd say they're a adequate (not great) bottom pairing in this context. You have to watch that they aren't overplayed.

 

[seventieslord]

VI's roster assassination post sums up my thoughts about the Helsinki squad. Although there are not as many question marks as may appear on the surface, there are a few.

Bykov is absolutely one of the top centers in the draft. Riley is one of the better LWs. Aside from that this team is made up of a variety of either solid players or unproven ones that I was happy to learn more about but ultimately not always convinced that they were great in an all-time context.

For example, Peltonen has been an OK NHL player but in an all-time context I haven't seen what makes him special enough to select. (although he has a stunning amount if international experience.) Koivu has definitely shown his worth, but then there is the question of his track record. Just about everything I find on every player shows that they were pretty good against the top competition but in a lot of cases, their stints against top competition were quite short and not always conclusive. By the way, I have a great deal of respect for Helminen and I applaud you for making him captain. I first brought him up in the "Top-1000" thread that followed AAA8.

Attempting to build a team of mostly Finns was an admirable undertaking but ultimately that limited your ability to build the best team that you could. MLD8 and MLD9 saw the same thing - there was an American-only team and a team made up solely of guys with Trail Smoke Eaters or British Columbia ties. That you managed to build a team that was, IMO, right there with the rest of the pack, was amazing considering this limitation.

Regina's roster is (at least, in relative AAA terms) full of players who have been able to produce at the best levels, and in the NHL playoffs or early Stanley Cup series. We only have one player who is a possible question mark, and that is Guryshev. What he accomplished relative to Bobrov, and where he was selected relative to him shows that he is unquestionably a good value in comparison, but where he really sits in the all-time pecking order is ultimately up to the GMs, much like many Helsinki players. Our two early HHOFers could also be questioned as well, given that they were amateurs, but then, they are just spares.

 

[Triffy]

So does that mean you don't think Marjamäki could handle second pairing minutes with Levo, with Mitchell-Salo as your third pairing?

I'm not convinced that Marjamäki is better than Salo. They both have a wicked slapshot, but honestly, there's not much information available about Marjamäki. But being named the best defenseman of the world championships in 1975 should tell everybody something about his capability. He competed against guys who have been selected long ago. All the Soviets, including Vasiliev for example. And Bubla and Rautakallio. Just to name a few. Marjamäki was one of the first world class defensemen Finland produced. But he might be too big of a question mark to play second pairing minutes.

Bykov is absolutely one of the top centers in the draft. Riley is one of the better LWs. Aside from that this team is made up of a variety of either solid players or unproven ones that I was happy to learn more about but ultimately not always convinced that they were great in an all-time context.

This is not true.

My whole first line is proven. Warwick was one of the best goalscorers left at the point I picked him. You said that yourself. And what I like about Warwick is that he's skilled enough to play with Bykov. I don't want my first line wingers to be woodhanded players with limited skill set. My first line, with the help from the Soviet defensemen, is probably the most dangerous in the draft.

You are also seriously undersestimating my second line. I've gone this through many times. Nisse Nilsson outscored Tumba in the 8 world championship tournaments they both played in. In 47 games, Nilsson scored 47 goals and added 17 assists, combining 64 points in total. Tumba scored 38 goals and added 22 assists (60 points) in 38 games. Nilsson also gathered more all-star selections in Swedish national league. All the all-star selections were from the time when Tumba was still going strong. I don't see how he's unproven at this level. He is MLD material just like Bykov.

The right winger on my second line, Vlastimil Bubnik, placed 6th in the Best Czech Hockey players of the Century voting. Only Hasek, Jagr, Zabrodsky, Martinec and Hlinka were above him. I'd call that elite company.

Oksanen might be unproven in your eyes. You don't have to take my word for him being the best Finnish player of his generation. For example, when Finland won Sweden in 1970 a Swedish coach went mad about it. He insulted basically everyone in Finland's lineup but finished saying (poor translation): "They've got three good players. Two goalies and Lasse Oksanen."

I also don't see how my third line is unproven. Sometimes good players don't get used to the new life style and culture of the NHL. The style of play is different. There are great deal of Europeans who are great hockey players but who simply can't translate their game to the new style.

Peltonen was in his prime during the so called dead puck era of the NHL. He had no chances to make a succesful transition to NHL because he was too small and weak. But somehow, at the age of 33, as a worse player than before, he managed to grab a spot on the Panthers' roster. He had tried before. Many times. The teams clearly saw there was something in him. His game just didn't translate into the clutch and grab style of play.

He's always done well at the international circles. Take a look at this. There are no undrafted players in the top 30. Or the top 40. And Peltonen is at #24. And when you take into account his style of play, the hockey sense, the work ethic, the consistency, the reliability. He's not gonna let me down. He's played against much better players and he's always been there, played in the critical situations. That's why he's carrying the A on his sweater.

 

[Triffy]

Good luck, seventies. The Huskies will now have to survive the rest of the voting day without the helping hand of their GM. I'm glad I got to post at least something. Most of the questions should have an answer already.

The stage is yours.

 

[seventieslord]

This is not true.

My whole first line is proven. Warwick was one of the best goalscorers left at the point I picked him. You said that yourself. And what I like about Warwick is that he's skilled enough to play with Bykov. I don't want my first line wingers to be woodhanded players with limited skill set. My first line, with the help from the Soviet defensemen, is probably the most dangerous in the draft.

OK. I'll give you that on Warwick. He was only top-10 once but was top-20 six times. This is an accomplishment shared by only 120 other players; however, it's worth noting that two of his best years were watered-down war years and he was pretty good in the two years immediately before and after that too. Does that mean it never happened? No. But it does put it into better context. Hey, I just noticed he's from Regina - I should have taken him!

I think your first line is great, all three players are very good, but I don't think Bykov is as good as Janney, I don't think Warwick is as good as Wilson, and I don't think Riley is as good as Smith.

You are also seriously undersestimating my second line. I've gone this through many times. Nisse Nilsson outscored Tumba in the 8 world championship tournaments they both played in. In 47 games, Nilsson scored 47 goals and added 17 assists, combining 64 points in total. Tumba scored 38 goals and added 22 assists (60 points) in 38 games. Nilsson also gathered more all-star selections in Swedish national league. All the all-star selections were from the time when Tumba was still going strong. I don't see how he's unproven at this level. He is MLD material just like Bykov.

Those are certainly eye-opening numbers from the WC's. Why is Tumba so universally considered better? There must be a reason. I do respect those accomplishments but I just can't say I'd take him over Gus Bodnar, who was top-12 in the NHL in assists 5 times (yes, during the war too). I think it's doubtful that Nilsson could have attained those plateus in the NHL had he been there.

The right winger on my second line, Vlastimil Bubnik, placed 6th in the Best Czech Hockey players of the Century voting. Only Hasek, Jagr, Zabrodsky, Martinec and Hlinka were above him. I'd call that elite company.

That is elite company. It's also surprising that he came out ahead of Malecek. Still, like Malecek, it is difficult to truly determine where he falls in the grand scheme of things, because of when and where he played.

Oksanen might be unproven in your eyes. You don't have to take my word for him being the best Finnish player of his generation. For example, when Finland won Sweden in 1970 a Swedish coach went mad about it. He insulted basically everyone in Finland's lineup but finished saying (poor translation): "They've got three good players. Two goalies and Lasse Oksanen."

He has a remarkable string of AST selections and awards. I just can't say for sure I prefer him to proven longtime NHL players.

Peltonen was in his prime during the so called dead puck era of the NHL. He had no chances to make a succesful transition to NHL because he was too small and weak. But somehow, at the age of 33, as a worse player than before, he managed to grab a spot on the Panthers' roster. He had tried before. Many times. The teams clearly saw there was something in him. His game just didn't translate into the clutch and grab style of play.

I figured that was the case. He's done pretty well for himself since the lockout.

He's always done well at the international circles. Take a look at this. There are no undrafted players in the top 30. Or the top 40. And Peltonen is at #24. And when you take into account his style of play, the hockey sense, the work ethic, the consistency, the reliability. He's not gonna let me down. He's played against much better players and he's always been there, played in the critical situations. That's why he's carrying the A on his sweater.[/QUOTE]

That is a really good accomplishment for someone like Peltonen. I certainly take it for what it's worth. Especially considering it is best-on-best tournaments in particular. However, his track record when playing games for months at a time against the best players in the world, isn't that special.

There is lots to like here. And I think your players were generally underrated by the group, and initially by myself as well. If there was more in the way of proven NHL effectiveness and NHL playoff scoring I think Helsinki could take Regina.

 

[seventieslord]

Good luck, seventies. The Huskies will now have to survive the rest of the voting day without the helping hand of their GM. I'm glad I got to post at least something. Most of the questions should have an answer already.

The stage is yours.

Good luck to you. You are absolutely adamant about your team and you can really back it up too. I respect that a lot.

 

[VanIslander]

...I don't think Bykov is as good as Janney,... I don't think Riley is as good as Smith..

Bykov is a 1st team all-star in this draft, Janney doesn't even make the all-star game.

Riley and Smith both are in the all-star game, Riley higher in the line-up, with more votes.

 

[seventieslord]

I think Bykov/Janney are certainly arguable. But if Riley got more votes than Smith, the voters got that one wrong.

 

[VanIslander]

Regina wins the series in 7 games.

Three stars: 1. Wilson 2. Martin 3. D. Smith

 

[seventieslord]

Jeez, that was close. I knew it would be close.

Congrats on a VERY well-played series, Triffy.

 

[Triffy]

I'm disappointed to see my team eliminated. I thought I had a chance. A slim chance, but it was there.

But to be honest, when I tried to analyze all the teams as objectively as possible, Regina was the only team that ended up with more points than my team. So I knew I was up to a hard task when I saw my team was going against them.

I think my team is the most skilled in the draft. That means, of course, that it lacked physical presence as there are no players with both physicality and high skill level in the AAA Draft (Bertuzzi was the exception). But I don't think the lack of physicality cost my team a win. I think there are two reasons for it.

First, I think it must have been because my top two lines are very offense oriented. If these teams went up against each other all guns blazing, the Huskies would win. But especially my second line seems like a huge question mark defensively. Even I don't expect them to be good two way players. Offensively, they are elite at this stage. But defensively, there's little to talk abot.

The other reason? I think my defense group is nowhere near the level of my forwards. And that's the biggest problem of my team. Babinov and Makarov are very good defensemen at this level. Tapio Levo is pretty good too. But the rest of them, I'm no so sure about. As individuals, they might be good enough, but I'm not satisfied how the group seems in my eyes. I spent too little time researching the available defensemen. They are hard to research because numbers tell nothing about defensemen. And I'm pretty much relying on numbers.

With the amount of knowledge and information seventieslord seems to have, he definitely deserved the victory. Congratulations.