A very interesting CBA quasi-loophole

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Dr Love, Nov 2, 2005.

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  1. Dr Love

    Dr Love Registered User

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    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/13058055.htm

    Now there's something I think we didn't know, that you can call a guy up for the game and then send him back right after the game and save yourself some money. And luckily for the Flyers, the Phantoms play across the street and practice in the next rink over. But like Clarke said, for some teams, it's going to be a big problem.
     
  2. Sotnos

    Sotnos Registered User

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    When Tampa had a few days between games last week, Tarnasky and Artyukhin were both sent down, then called back up for the next NHL game. A way to save a few bucks, I suppose. We'll probably see it happen with a lot of the kids who don't have to clear waivers.
     
  3. AdmiralPred

    AdmiralPred Registered User

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    I wonder if this is the same thing Nashville is doing with Fiddler?

    Guys could end up playing 90+ games in a season if this is done consistantly.
     
  4. Dr Love

    Dr Love Registered User

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    Milwaukee and Nashville aren't exactly close. He'd miss a significant number of practices, possibly stunting his development, at the very least hampering his play as he's going from linemate to linemate with little time to adjust. Like I said before, the Flyers are fortunate that their practice rink is right next to the Phantoms and they play games in arenas next to each other (yes, guys have literally crossed the street to play a game). Toronto also has that benefit. I wonder if this will lead to some teams moving their affiliates to the same city down the road. Certainly all the Canadian teams could have a sucessful AHL franchise in their backyard.
     
  5. sveiglar

    sveiglar Registered User

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    Did they leave town? I guess there is no reason why they would have to just because they were sent down. But in that instance, would they be able to practice with the Tampa players and coaching staff while not on the Tampa roster? Maybe they'd have to skate on their own or something like that.
     
  6. discostu

    discostu Registered User

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    I thought salary was based on the number of games played in the NHL, rather than the minors, not the number of days spent on the roster.

    That is a loophole. It won't have massive impact on salaries, because of the salaries of those involved are pretty small, but, it will mean much more shuttling back and forth for some players needlessly.

    It may see more teams have minor league franchises closer to their city for this reason.
     
  7. Dr Love

    Dr Love Registered User

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    I thought so too, but apparently that's not the case. Or Clarke is really getting up there in age.

    Agreed. It'll matter more in that the development of a young player that is bounced between the leagues could be stunted somewhat. At the very least the player's performance could likely suffer; not only are they foreign to their linemates, but they're probably not going to get a significant amount of ice time either. Sitting on a bench for 55 minutes and then going out there with guys you've never played for can't be good.
     
  8. AdmiralPred

    AdmiralPred Registered User

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    I don't doubt that travel would cut into the player's daily routine and practise time. Nashville has had at least one lull in their schedule and the Ads have played soley on the weekends, so there was opportunity, IF that is what the Preds were doing. Fiddler has been called up one day, played for the Preds that night or the next, and been returned to Milwaukee for a weekend slate. In this case someone is racking up frequent-flyer miles for the 1.5 hour plane ride from Nash to Milw. This is how the season opened for Fiddler as well.
     
  9. Dr Love

    Dr Love Registered User

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    No doubt that there will be some cases where this isn't really an issue. I was speaking in general terms. And in Umberger's case, he's helped a bit by having spent essentially all of training camp with the Flyers and being only 4 weeks removed from that.
     
  10. kdb209

    kdb209 Global Moderator

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    This is really only a very minor "loophole"

    It only really affects clubs with a local AHL affiliate, who are at home (doesn't help on multi game roadtrips), and with young players who are exempt from waivers.

    One interesting possibility, though, that wouldn't surprise me, is for Umberger and the PA to file a grievence over this. This is a bad precedent for the PA to leave unchallenged.
     
  11. AdmiralPred

    AdmiralPred Registered User

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    The Vancouver Canucks seem to be doing this and their affiliate is over 1,100 miles away.

    Link.

    Thanks to Primis over on the fHockey boards.
     
  12. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Not if they stay with the NHL team.
     
  13. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

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    Wouldn't the time frame start from when the team notifies the league of their intentions with the player. So it a team sends a player down, they announce it to the league and then it is official. I don't think it becomes offical when the player's plane touches down in his city or when he officially makes it back to his home arena. Makes the city of the AHL team irrelevant.

    I don't think Bobby Clarke is the best source for CBA info.
     
  14. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User

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    it's probably to late to change anything but why don't they just pay a player per game played(ie if contract is X million, each game he is up on the big team(weather playing or sitting) while they play a game it will cost the team X million/82) so if you send a guy down for 3 days while your not playing it won't make a difference.
     
  15. Daily Special

    Daily Special Registered User

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    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Wiebe/2005/11/05/1294053-sun.html

    Makes you wonder if Green and McVicar even know what time it is right now.

    You have to imagine Kroenke and Lacroix are looking at the Nonis and McCaw juggling act to follow suit. Meanwhile, the 2nd stringers are redfining the meaning of 'jet lag'.

    I laughed at "until an alternate solution is found". What would that be - maybe not signing Bertuzzi for 5.2 mill next time? :biglaugh:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2005
  16. Buffaloed

    Buffaloed webmaster

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    A related issue that'll come up is clubs sending down players before they're on the roster for 40 games so it won't qualify as an "accrued season".

    http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/cba_ratified072205.html

     
  17. AdmiralPred

    AdmiralPred Registered User

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    Obviously if they stay with the NHL club than this 'loophole' is no longer a loophole as it sounds like the players will be paid NHL rather than AHL money. My "90+ games" comment was half sarcastic and half truth because if teams do this on a weekly basis, call up a guy to play an NHL game and send him right back to his AHL club, the player, theoretically, could play 90+ games between the AHL and NHL while the NHL team saves money on payroll, simply because of the staggering schedules. This could big for guys who don't have to clear.

    Of coarse, my theory gets shot down if there is a games played qualifier in there that states if a player plays x number of games for the NHL club he must draw the NHL salary.
     
  18. missK

    missK Registered User

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    They have to leave town now, the NHL requires proof of that, no more "paper only" transactions are allowed I was told. The Tampa players were reassigned right after a Friday night game, they flew up north in the morning and played in Springfield that night.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2005
  19. missK

    missK Registered User

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    They won't ever track for cap purposes or paycheck purposes as "games played" because players get scratched and don't play and that way they wouldn't get paid. For cap purposes they are breaking down each player's salary by day. NHLers get two paychecks a month that are based on how many days in that month they are on the NHL roster so that's the number they are using for cap purposes.
     
  20. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Discostu, I guess that is why the Sens kept sending Eaves back down then recalling him. They were doing the same thing.
     
  21. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    This sucks for AHL players as they lose a ton of cash. They could play 1/8 the nhl season of 10 games and still get paid like they only were up for 4 games in a 2 way contract, if they were only on the NHL roster for 10 days out of 200 Doesn't seem very fair.
     
  22. Rotang

    Rotang Registered User

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    I know Vancouver has been doing this with some of their fringe players for a couple weeks now. In one case, Goren flew to Manitoba, didn't even get off the plane, and flew right back to Vancouver :clap: They've got some seriour penny pinchers, eh?
     
  23. Flukeshot

    Flukeshot Hextall Activate!

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    This is a very good point. The PA should be pissed at this, that their members are being flown all over the place and not earning their NHL paycheck at the same time just so the NHL teams can save some cap space.

    However the players are in a very vunerable position. Guys like Umberger, Green, and all those mentioned are getting their chance to play in the NHL. And thus open the possibility that they could win a more permanent roster spot. So if they complained about this mini-loophole than they could find themselves stuck in the AHL with no shot at a recall.

    But it could simply take one or two ballsy or angered enough players to file a grievence to end this practise.
     
  24. GSC2k2*

    GSC2k2* Guest

    Since injury replacement salary counts against the 54%, my suspicion would be that the PA membership would want to minimize this cost as much as the NHL. Accoridngly, I doubt that the PA will advance such a grievance, as a positive result would take money out of permanent NHL players' pockets.
     
  25. Flukeshot

    Flukeshot Hextall Activate!

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    Hmmm, very good point.
     
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