Value of: A RHD to Oilers

[Spazkat]

Now that I think about it, I honestly don’t know what the point of proposal threads are when every fan overrates the hell out of the players they’re fans of.

Not entirely true. HF Ducks and HF Devils pretty much agreed to the Vatanen/Henrique swap months before the teams got around to doing the trade

 

[CREW99AW]

After a slow start, Pulock put together a very solid rookie season (30 pts)

I doubt he is available.

 

[57special]

Yes players generally look better playing against worse competition.

Ah, cool. Quadrupling down on ignorance.

 

[57special]

Nah, drai would be getting us dumba. And I'm okay with that. Don't have a ton of use for spurgeon

And you must be part of the Oiler's management team.

 

[AKL]

If there's one thing I've learned about Ryan Suter from HFBoards, it is that it is impossible for him to play next to another good defenseman.

Man so true. Never heard of another defender who boosts the play of those he plays with, but who also gets boosted by those he plays with, where both are perceived as a negative.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

The obessesion of some Jets fans to downgrade their Stanley Cup contending team for picks and prospects they don’t need is stunning to me. Just mind boggling idiocy

Maybe mind boggling because you either aren't or can't see the bigger picture.

Winnipeg will face cap challenges as soon as next year and more so a year and more down the road.

Some moves will have to be made that will "hurt", not every player can or will be retained.

Poolman is at least an adequate replacement for Myers. The cap savings would be substantial. That's a factor, and something Jets fans should be prepared for going forward.

While Myers has some plusses he also is not one of the top 2 RHD on the team.

Personally I have felt this way for a while and believe making a move or two where Myers and Perreault are dealt for assets that don't challenge the cap, while opening up the possibility to retain a very good 2C like Stastny makes the total of the team better, it doesn't "downgrade it ".

More likely the return would be picks ( something the Jets do more than ok with ) but it could be entry level prospects or players still on their low dollar contracts. Those assets are valuable in several ways, so saying they don't need them is myopic. Stastny was acquired for these types of assets. Winnipeg would not nearly be the contender they are right now without Stastny and also Morrow.

Stastny ( or similar C ) & Poolman imo make the Jets better than Myers and no 2C, and you then have to sign Myers in one year or move him, or lose him. Trading a player at the optimal time is more advantageous than a year too late.

All part of managing, building a team for the best chance of continual , ongoing success. Cheveldayoff has gotten the Jets to this point, a very very good point but roster decisions will be required going forward. Scenarios like this will be considered and some indeed will be made.

Upgrade, not downgrade.

 

[JetsHomer]

The Jets are a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. To downgrade the roster now when they have a legitimate shot at the Cup so that they might maybe have the pieces a few years from now is idiocy. Full stop

This is not an issue of keeping Myers or Stastny. The Jets can’t retain Stastny if hope to retain Wheeler. Stastny is a pipe dream. He will be 33 years old and will get overpaid. The Jets can’t be the team overpaying him if they have legitimate cup aspirations

 

[Scorcho]

Severson for RNH

 

[Hunter368]

Maybe mind boggling because you either aren't or can't see the bigger picture.

Winnipeg will face cap challenges as soon as next year and more so a year and more down the road.

Some moves will have to be made that will "hurt", not every player can or will be retained.

Poolman is at least an adequate replacement for Myers. The cap savings would be substantial. That's a factor, and something Jets fans should be prepared for going forward.

While Myers has some plusses he also is not one of the top 2 RHD on the team.

Personally I have felt this way for a while and believe making a move or two where Myers and Perreault are dealt for assets that don't challenge the cap, while opening up the possibility to retain a very good 2C like Stastny makes the total of the team better, it doesn't "downgrade it ".

More likely the return would be picks ( something the Jets do more than ok with ) but it could be entry level prospects or players still on their low dollar contracts. Those assets are valuable in several ways, so saying they don't need them is myopic. Stastny was acquired for these types of assets. Winnipeg would not nearly be the contender they are right now without Stastny and also Morrow.

Stastny ( or similar C ) & Poolman imo make the Jets better than Myers and no 2C, and you then have to sign Myers in one year or move him, or lose him. Trading a player at the optimal time is more advantageous than a year too late.

All part of managing, building a team for the best chance of continual , ongoing success. Cheveldayoff has gotten the Jets to this point, a very very good point but roster decisions will be required going forward. Scenarios like this will be considered and some indeed will be made.

Upgrade, not downgrade.

I agree with you in theory, but there are a lot of “ifs” in the plan to all work out in a very complex cap world the nhl lives in.....not to mention NMC’s in players contracts etc.

Worth exploring without doubt, by far from a sure thing. To JetHomers point, were #2 in the nhl already so we need to be upgrading if anything.

There are some low hanging fruit we can look at that wouldn’t have a big impact on us in the long run imo. IE: Mason (mid to late round) & Myers (top 4 rhd will bring a nice package or pick back) which equals out to about 10 million in cap space alone.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I promise you he is.

Larsson is much better than Spurgeon; they had to give up a future MVP to get him.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

The Jets are a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. To downgrade the roster now when they have a legitimate shot at the Cup so that they might maybe have the pieces a few years from now is idiocy. Full stop

This is not an issue of keeping Myers or Stastny. The Jets can’t retain Stastny if hope to retain Wheeler. Stastny is a pipe dream. He will be 33 years old and will get overpaid. The Jets can’t be the team overpaying him if they have legitimate cup aspirations

The Jets aren't and can't trade Myers "now" so that has zero impact.

You're conclusions are entirely incorrect. They really are. It is about the now, which is next year, AND the following years. It isn't difficult to follow, it really is not.

The Jets absolutely can keep Wheeler & Stastny, doesn't mean they will but it is not at all a pipe dream. It seems you're focused and locked in to predisposed ideas and your beliefs, neither avenue is right just because you may think they are. Stastny could very well be open to a 2/3 year deal for fair value to have a very very realistic chance to win the Stanley Cup. If not him then another C at his level. That makes the Jets better than Myers.

Based on your locked in presumptions that the Jets can't make moves to benefit them by actually managing properly, do you think losing a 2C like Stastny doesn't downgrade ( you like that term ) them when they have a legitimate shot at winning the Stanley Cup? Of course it does. It also lessens the impact of Laine & Ehlers pretty significantly.

Myers is a valuable player to many teams including Edmonton, the Jets won't give him away but if they can make a deal to better the team both short & long term they will. As they should. Trading players like Myers/Perreault when they have low cost good replacements in hand makes sense.

Full stop ... the idiocy.

 

[JetsHomer]

I guess I’ll just never understand some Jets fans (who claim to care about the cap situation) desire to sign a 33 year old Stastny coming off a 53 point year to a huge deal.

If your desire to move a Jets D is based on the assumption that a player ‘might take a bad discount’ to sign with your team you are a horrible GM

 

[Ducks in a row]

Ducks aren't interested in trading Montour especially to the Oilers so...

 

[North Cole]

And you must be part of the Oiler's management team.

I wish, easy money and job security. Sure beats getting laid off from oil and gas.

Matt Dumba plays RS, put up 50 pts. I would argue is already better than Spurgeon and is 5 years younger at 23. That puts him right along side our core in age and development

If you think the wild add some small pieces, that's fine. Otherwise I don't see the issue with centring a deal around dumba. Who are you targeting that is better? Jones? Parayko? Provorov?

Since you think I'm a Peter chiarelli clone, I'd be interested to see a package you would propose for Draisaitl.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wish, easy money and job security. Sure beats getting laid off from oil and gas.

Matt Dumba plays RS, put up 50 pts. I would argue is already better than Spurgeon and is 5 years younger at 23. That puts him right along side our core in age and development

If you think the wild add some small pieces, that's fine. Otherwise I don't see the issue with centring a deal around dumba. Who are you targeting that is better? Jones? Parayko? Provorov?

Since you think I'm a Peter chiarelli clone, I'd be interested to see a package you would propose for Draisaitl.

*Offensively, and they're about equal right now, both had 0.6 points-per-game this year.

 

[Bazeek]

I wish, easy money and job security. Sure beats getting laid off from oil and gas.

Matt Dumba plays RS, put up 50 pts. I would argue is already better than Spurgeon and is 5 years younger at 23. That puts him right along side our core in age and development

If you think the wild add some small pieces, that's fine. Otherwise I don't see the issue with centring a deal around dumba. Who are you targeting that is better? Jones? Parayko? Provorov?

Since you think I'm a Peter chiarelli clone, I'd be interested to see a package you would propose for Draisaitl.

I think you may have misinterpreted that post. He's a Wild fan that was commenting on the dismissal of Spurgeon.

I don't think there are many Minnesota fans that'll hang up on anyone from Edmonton that wants to talk Dumba for Draisaitl.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Trouba not available, would cost you more then you want to give.

Myers might be available to the Oilers for the right price

Sounds good to me...depending on the price.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

I guess I’ll just never understand some Jets fans (who claim to care about the cap situation) desire to sign a 33 year old Stastny coming off a 53 point year to a huge deal.

If your desire to move a Jets D is based on the assumption that a player ‘might take a bad discount’ to sign with your team you are a horrible GM

It's ok you don't understand, just because you don't doesn't make your desired course of action correct.

Is the only option for signing a "huge" deal? Of course not. IF it gets to that then you focus on another C, but Stastny is a very good fit for Winnipeg.

Cheveldayoff is a VERY good GM and thankful that he is. Your conclusion leap is unfounded, you make moves for the betterment of your team and to give you options. If you can't understand that then yes indeed you are a very bad GM.

Myers is a valuable player, more so to a team like Edmonton I believe than to Winnipeg. Moving Myers is akin to not signing Enstrom for the same contract dollars he was previously. Moving Myers allows the Jets to get assets in return for a player that has confirmed his value after a lost year.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

How are a 19 year old prospect that had a really good season, a youngish D-man with injury problems and a 19 year old winger reclamation projects but a 24 year old D-man that was heavily sheltered and played 3 pairing minutes is a top-4 D-man?

I thought the removal of the albatross contract was the most bemusing. Relieving them by leaving them with 4 million of dead cap space for 7 years. Yeah.

 

[North Cole]

*Offensively

Sure, which is exactly what we don't have in a defeneman. Klefbom being injured and not understanding how to hockey is a major reason our pp was so f***ing bad. Our offensé is McDavid followed by Draisaitl, followed by.....nurse? Larsson can't do anything offensively and after nurse we have a bunch of pylons.

I'd risk taking the younger guy who can get us some offensive support from the back end and hope he continues to develop defensively, over the older guy who can plays a more balanced game. Our pk woes were because our pk forwards outside of Mcdavid just can't cover a lane effectively.

We had one of the lowest scoring defence corps in hockey.

 

[Hunter368]

Sounds good to me...depending on the price.

We don’t have to trade Myers for cap reasons, but if it frees up cap next year to improve our team in other ways we might consider it. Thus:

- No cap dumps, ufa or old guys.

- Ideally we get ELC or picks or prospects back that have little or no impact on our cap at the moment.

- We’re loaded with wingers for days on the roster & prospects so don’t offer any. Don’t need goalies either.

- Only needs could be top 9 C or top 4 D prospects or guys who project to be this.

Myers has one year term, proven he is healthy all year, so not a rental or injury risk. Had a great year on D.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I thought the removal of the albatross contract was the most bemusing. Relieving them by leaving them with 4 million of dead cap space for 7 years. Yeah.

Lots of people don't seem to understand that significant retention on cap hits for long periods of time are often more problematic than just keeping a bad contract.

 

[North Cole]

I think you may have misinterpreted that post. He's a Wild fan that was commenting on the dismissal of Spurgeon.

I don't think there are many Minnesota fans that'll hang up on anyone from Edmonton that wants to talk Dumba for Draisaitl.

How different is their usage? Looks lmto me like Spurgeon has better CF, better xgf%. Similar qoc stats, they both pk.

Dumba has a lower zsr (defensive), much better pdo, better ish%. Similar toI.

Hedman didn't learn how to play defence until he was 25/26. What you see with Spurgeon is what you get, where as I believe Dumba still has room to improve.

I don't have avatars on my mobile so I have no clue who he is a fan of, all i see is some insulting post with no solution of his own. Hard to take that opinion seriously when he isn't adding anything of value himself. Only has 2 posts in the thread and they both pointing the finger at someone else.

I don't dismiss Spurgeon because I think he is bad. I dismiss him because it just feels like another Larsson trade. Trading offense for defensive-defense is what got us into our mess. I also never said it would be 1 for 1

 

[ole ole]

Ristolainen for Edmonton’s first if Buffalo wins the lottery. Buffalo adds Dahlin and another defender or a winger with the Oilers pick.

WHY?
Just because you draft Dahlin you don't give away Ristolainen.
Buf would just keep Ristolainen as he's worth a lot more than the 10th overall pick in this yrs draft.

 

[Bazeek]

How different is their usage? Looks lmto me like Spurgeon has better CF, better xgf%. Similar qoc stats, they both pk.

Dumba has a lower zsr (defensive), much better pdo, better ish%. Similar toI.

Hedman didn't learn how to play defence until he was 25/26. What you see with Spurgeon is what you get, where as I believe Dumba still has room to improve.

I don't have avatars on my mobile so I have no clue who he is a fan of, all i see is some insulting post with no solution of his own. Hard to take that opinion seriously when he isn't adding anything of value himself. Only has 2 posts in the thread and they both pointing the finger at someone else.

I don't dismiss Spurgeon because I think he is bad. I dismiss him because it just feels like another Larsson trade. Trading offense for defensive-defense is what got us into our mess. I also never said it would be 1 for 1

Don't get me wrong, I think you'd be right to target him over Spurgeon. Even if I didn't, I think you make a convincing case for doing so.