A. Kastsitsyn Or I. Grigorenko?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Hockey Moose, May 9, 2004.

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  1. Hockey Moose

    Hockey Moose Registered User

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    Hey All,

    If you had to trade one of these two & had both, which would be the one to keep & build around? Also, is one of these guys worth trading for a defencman like R. Klesla?
     
  2. Meat Wave

    Meat Wave * * *

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    Question #1: Andrei Kastsitsyn
    Quesion #2: Klesla hasn't panned out yet, but he's got awesome potential... so it's hard to tell.
     
  3. Hockey Moose

    Hockey Moose Registered User

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    Thanks so much for answering. I've tried to run this threw my head. I def thought Kat's would be the guy to keep. SOmebody told me he's got some sorta of condition, what is this?
     
  4. Special Ed

    Special Ed Registered User

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    epilepsy...
     
  5. Aarex

    Aarex Registered User

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    He has epilepsy, He has had one seizure in his life and the doctors said as long as he keeps on his medication that there is no problem with him playing professional hockey. This is what stopped him from being drafted much earlier.
     
  6. db23

    db23 Guest

    Its called "Excessive Hyperbole". Inflicts more than a few high draft picks.

    Not only would I trade either of those players for Klesla in a NY minute, I would trade them both for him without a second thought. Girgorkenko defeinitely has to rank ahead of Kastitsyn at this point, even with his injuries.
     
  7. Traitor8

    Traitor8 Registered User

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    Dr Mulder(Habs doctor) cheked Andrei and said he doesn't have epilepsy.
     
  8. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    I'd keep Grigorenko, because I think he's got more 'NHL talent' in him, if you know what I mean.

    As for trading them for Klesla, it depends. If I'm the Wings, I certainly don't consider it since they really don't need Klesla. If I'm the Habs, maybe. Then again, I don't think much of Kastsitsyn.
     
  9. No. I don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

    Grigorenko still has a ways to go before recovery.
    Us Wings fans are really counting on him being all we hoped he would. But that might be asking too much.
    Some are saying he could be in the NHL next season, whenever that starts. But that sounds pretty unlikely to me.
     
  10. Coffey77

    Coffey77 Registered User

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    At the very least I would like Grigorenko in the AHL. That way, Detroit can monitor his injuries/recovery better.

    I still have high hopes for him but the NHL next year? I don't know about that. Still impressed that he even played some games, although I have no idea how good/bad he was in those games.
     
  11. Apoplectic Habs Fan

    Apoplectic Habs Fan Registered User

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    I don't want to be an ass, but honestly I would like to know how many people have seen either one of these guys actually play. From all accounts, not many have seen Kastsitsyn aside from poster "Montreal" on the habs board. How about Grigorenko? How many have seen him play and can anyone give a valid comparison between the two.

    We can all look at stats but they don't really say that much. When someone says they don't think much of Kastsitsyn or something like, I take Grigorenko/Kastsitsyn. What is this based on aside from someone else's opinion if you haven't seen both play before.
     
  12. Herby

    Herby Culture Changer

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    Igor Grigorenko was the best player on the ice for the Russians in the last WJC he played in Halifax. Unlike Kostitsyn he has actually produced in the RSL, leading his team in scoring the year before his accident. And also played well for Russia at the Senior WC's.

    I hope he recovers from his accident like Regehr has and becomes an impact player in the NHL, he was very fun to watch.
     
  13. Meat Wave

    Meat Wave * * *

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    From what I can understand, in the dozen games Kastsitsyn has been playing the CSKA team in Russia, he has been getting 4th line ice time, and no powerplay ice time. Poster "Montreal" - contrarly to most people on these boards preteding Andrei is having an awful year without knowing the facts* - on the Habs board has seen video tapes of him playing for CSKA and I remember him saying Kastsitsyn didn't even play 12 minutes in both games. Hard to put up good numbers when not getting the opportunity to do so. Maybe it does have something to do with him not developing as fast as expected... instead of simply the old "Russian coaches prefer veterans to rookies" excuse. But one can wonder if Kastsitsyn was really given a chance to get top 2 lines ice time on a regular basis.

    After he played those games for CSKA, Kastsitsyn has put up interesting numbers for CSKA-2, supposedly dominating in the offensive zone, and averaging more than one point per game (including a couple of multi-point games).

    *Same could be said about some Habs fans who are over-hyping Andrei, though.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2004
  14. Herby

    Herby Culture Changer

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    But if he were this all-world phenom like Komisarek8 and others proclaim he is, wouldn't he getting more than a few minutes a game. Frolov for instance was leading the RSL in goals at age 19 when he left to play in the WJC, and Grigorenko also put up big numbers in the RSL as a teenager. Zherdev who is roughly the same age as Kastitsyn had a dozen goals in his draft year. Svitov played regularly his draft year in the RSL and put up some numbers, same with Chistov.

    If all of these highly touted players were able to play regularly and put up some pts in the RSL why cant someone who is supposedly as talented as Kastitsyn do the same? Perhaps its because coaches over there make you earn your minutes and Kastitsyn hasn't?
     
  15. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    yeah ..
    and Kovalchuk never played in thr RSL :shakehead
     
  16. Mr.Brownov*

    Mr.Brownov* Guest

    Keep them both!Wait a few years for Rusty
     
  17. TeamPlayer

    TeamPlayer Registered User

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    Rusty who?
     
  18. montreal

    montreal Go Habs Go

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    Well the skill is there, from what I've seen. Why isn't he playing much? Could be that he's lost in his own end. Could be that the RSL is not a development league. Kastsistsyn when sent down was told to work on his consistency. He scored a hair under a goal a game. When you get sent down and are told on work on a certain area of your game, and you do that, it would seem that the player would then be called up. But that was not the case. Although he did get in 11 games with CSKA, most of them were early in the season.

    I don't know what Kastsitsyn will do in the future. Some guys want to call him a bust others like me over hype him. It's all unknown, so everyones opinions mean little. We'll have to see what he does, can anyone understand what Tikonov does? There's no doubt this kid has a ton of skills. Just look at what he's done in the last 3 U-18's as a 15 year old, 16 and 17 year old. (19 games 39 points, although as a 15 year old he played in the divison 1 tournament)
     
  19. Malakhov

    Malakhov Registered User

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    Well Tikonov probably didn't want to spend any effort on the kid seeing as he's probably gonna head to America real soon.

    I just hope next year he's over here playing for Hamilton.
     
  20. Russian Fan

    Russian Fan Registered User

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    I've seen Kastsitsyn many times on tape also. I can tell you that he's gonna be good if develop correctly. No rush need to take on him. I dont think he's NHL READY for next season but maybe/probably 2005-06.
     
  21. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    It is a nickname for Rostislav Klesla.
     
  22. Karamazov

    Karamazov Registered User

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    Both those forwards are definitely blue-chippers and in my eyes I'd say Grigorenko seems to be a more sure fire/ can't mis. guy, I believe Kastsitsyn's potential ceiling to be a little higher. I'd deal Grigorenko for Klesla (I still think Rusty's going to only get better) but I'd think twice about moving Andrei...
     
  23. Guillaume

    Guillaume Registered User

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    Just to correct something, believe me, Kostitsyn had more than one epilepsy crisis. It freaked out some of his coaches (e.g., at Khimik last year, etc.). This year, he could not crack up the roster of CSKA on a regular basis. His game was not that great, including defensively and he was not developing nicely with little ice time or in the press box.
    But keep in mind that they played players with the same age much more than him. For instance, CHernykh played 27 games, Dubinin 29. Even Parshin, born in 1986 played 27.
    Offensively, CSKA 2 was a level too easy for him.

    Finally, he got loaned back to Junost Minsk in Belarus where he did very nicely and helped his team's run in the playoff (I believe they won the championship but i might be wrong).
     
  24. Slick Nick

    Slick Nick Registered User

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    Just want to let you know that Ronaldo, the Brazilian football superstar, has the same level of ilness than Kastitsyn... He is considered my most as one of the 5 best players in the world, 1 2 3 4 5 you chose.
     
  25. habsfansam

    habsfansam Registered User

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    I'd say that it's hardly fair to slam guys at such a young age... especially a guy that really had limited coverage leading up to the draft and in the year following. Kastsitsyn just turned 19 in February and put up killer numbers in for CSKA-2. No, it's not the RSL, but look at the RSL as a whole... there isn't a lot of scoring, defense is king, and he saw limited action for 11 games of a season. Not exactly a prime situation for AK to score 20goals and blow you away.

    Here are some possible reasons...
    1 health
    2 racial/nationalistic tension with the coach/management
    3 punishment for the whole zherdev situation (ie they expect to lose him sooner than other guys so why bother to play him minutes you can give someone else)
    4 played bad defense
    5 personality conflict
    6 didn't fit the needs of the team (ie if he's not getting lots of O-time, and he's ineffective as a closer, then you're better off with him on the bench or elsewhere)
    7 spends too much time at international events... coaching staff doesn't approve?
    8 russian hockey is CRAZY POLITICAL

    Personally, i'm not worried. All reports i've heard from people who know what they're talking about (eg Savard, Timmons were over earlier this year, and our good friends from RLR answered an email from a curious poster) say that the kid has outstanding talent and that there is nothing to worry about with his development.

    Personally i'd keep both... keep AK because we've had limited viewing, and keep IG because he's recovering from an injury. It's a simple premise, you only trade from a position of power (ie a prospect who is bound to get you the biggest return). Either one of these guys could breakout next year and take the NHL by storm...

    Also, RK didn't have that great of a season... why trade 1 or 2 potential offensive stars for a guy who may not ever realize the potential that everyone claims is there. Heck, look at Malakhov... awesome skills set, huge potential, but it never came together for him here in the NHL.
     
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