GDT: 9/24/17 - 4:00PM EDT - Florida VS Tampa Bay [Preseason Game 4]

[FDfranklin]

He can’t go to Syracuse because he’s only 19 and was drafted out of the CHL (it’s a CHL rule). Anyone remember Hedman at 19? Not any better than Sergachev at this stage, in fact people even used the “bust†word. The question is would it be better for Sergachev’s development to keep him in the NHL and live with his growing pains, or send him back to juniors where you risk a motivation/attitude problem and the development of bad habits.

Do what we did with Hedman.

 

[Bolt32]

Do what we did with Hedman.

So give him number one minutes when he's clearly in over his head?

 

[Bolt 45]

jake dotchin has violated a team rule, which is the reason he has not played a preseason game, team says it won't affect his roster standing

Apparently while scrimmaging Dotchin forgot to circle back with the puck at the blueline during a breakout, which resulted in a successful breakout.

 

[Sky04]

He can’t go to Syracuse because he’s only 19 and was drafted out of the CHL (it’s a CHL rule). Anyone remember Hedman at 19? Not any better than Sergachev at this stage, in fact people even used the “bust†word. The question is would it be better for Sergachev’s development to keep him in the NHL and live with his growing pains, or send him back to juniors where you risk a motivation/attitude problem and the development of bad habits.

Nobody used the bust word on Hedman at 19.. problem with Sergachev is there's no ice time for him in the NHL, Hedman had a secured top-4 role at that age.

 

[FDfranklin]

So give him number one minutes when he's clearly in over his head?

Yes.

Well no. I was referring to staying in the NHL.

 

[Bolt 45]

So give him number one minutes when he's clearly in over his head?

The sink-or-swim approach isn't necessarily the wrong way to go, although, as Sky04 noted, minutes of any kind are at a premium, which is a legitimate conundrum (as far as I see it) with Sergachev. Apparently he can't even play in Syracuse, and I'd argue that he's on the cusp of being too talented to play there anyway. A weird situation. He's hasn't actually looked like he's in over his head, which is kind of the problem.

 

[TampaJay]

The sink-or-swim approach isn't necessarily the wrong way to go, although, as Sky04 noted, minutes of any kind are at a premium, which is a legitimate conundrum (as far as I see it) with Sergachev. Apparently he can't even play in Syracuse, and I'd argue that he's on the cusp of being too talented to play there anyway. A weird situation. He's hasn't actually looked like he's in over his head, which is kind of the problem.

I agree. The conundrum is that he is too good for juniors, can’t go the AHL, and will have some serious NHL growing pains. If he stays he needs to be paired with a vet who can mentor and cover for him. Hedman is not an option because we need him freed up. So it is either Coburn, Stralman, or maybe Girardi. It can’t be KK, Sustr or Dotchin. Here’s the lineup options as I see it… if he stays.

Hedman – Stralman
Coburn – Sergachev
KK – Girardi/Dotchin/Sustr
Or
Hedman – Dotchin
Sergachev – Stralman
Coburn – Girardi/Sustr
Or
Hedman – Dotchin
Coburn – Stralman
Sergachev - Girardi

 

[Bolt 45]

I agree. The conundrum is that he is too good for juniors, can’t go the AHL, and will have some serious NHL growing pains. If he stays he needs to be paired with a vet who can mentor and cover for him. Hedman is not an option because we need him freed up. So it is either Coburn, Stralman, or maybe Girardi. It can’t be KK, Sustr or Dotchin. Here’s the lineup options as I see it… if he stays.

Hedman – Stralman
Coburn – Sergachev
KK – Girardi/Dotchin/Sustr
Or
Hedman – Dotchin
Sergachev – Stralman
Coburn – Girardi/Sustr
Or
Hedman – Dotchin
Coburn – Stralman
Sergachev - Girardi

I was thinking Coburn as well. Girardi would probably work, but I haven't watched enough of him. To my eye, Sergachev actually plays a bit like Stralman, in that he skates well, he isn't afraid to throw a hit when it makes sense to, and he has the ability to chip in on offense, so I can't decide if it would work to pair him with Stralman or not. In any case, we gave Sustr and even Nesterov ample time to iron out their games in the NHL, so I'm in favor of doing the same with Sergachev. Vasy looks good in net, and our Top-6 is healthy, so it seems like we should be able to weather the odd mistake here and there from Sergachev.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Was an interesting game to be at. Attendance wasn't too bad for a preseason game with only a few veterans. I am getting used to the goal song (sort of) but I HATE that they changed the warm up song to something insipidly stupid.

Girardi hasn't been bad.

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised with Girardi. Made some decent defensive plays. Didn't get out skated too much. Not afraid to block a shot or make/take a hit. Cooper did swap defensive pairs now and then, so Hedman was with most of the RD kids at one time or another during the game. The difference in his skill level and speed of decision making compared to the babies was soooo evident!!

Sergachev might prefer RD, but I thought his passes were rather awkward and/or sloppy. As the game went on, he became less defensively sound. Coburn had to bail him out a few times. Serg's performance on the PP also wasn't very impressive. He's got some serious skills but he's more raw than I'd expected considering all the hype. I wouldn't mind him staying up if he could get protected minutes on a 3rd pair with someone like Girardi (if Serg plays LD) or Coburn (if Serg plays RD). But if Cooper decides that Serg will play RD regularly, that complicates matters considerably considering Dotchin and Sustr are still around.

Strålman played LD with Dotchin or Witkowski on RD after Garrison went down and he did fine, but I don't think he likes it. lol Coby seems pretty comfortable on either side which is very good for flexibility in case of injuries. Not sure, but I always thought that Yzerman and Cooper prefer to keep Dmen on their natural shot side if possible. But it might be that tonight was a 'show us how good you are on RD' time for Serg. They've certainly given him loads of ice time to show what he can do.

Koekkoek just has not made much of an impression at all.

Peca was still aggressively attacking every chance he got.

But Volkov was simply amazing! Back when I watched him at Dev Camp, I said he was amazingly agile with a wicked quick release and ability to make the sneaky shot. He certainly showed that tonight. lol

For the rest of the vets, Coburn looked really solid and was skating very well. Defensively covered some prospect butts more than once. Killer was also not bad. Paquette was okay too.

Will be verrrry interesting to see what cuts are made tomorrow.

 

[TampaJay]

Nobody used the bust word on Hedman at 19.. problem with Sergachev is there's no ice time for him in the NHL, Hedman had a secured top-4 role at that age.

Here’s a tweet from a hockey writer in Dec 2013…

Victor Hedman quietly erasing his "bust" status. 15 points, 30 hits, 31 blocks, 20 takeaways and averaging 21:54 ice time in 27 games.

That tweet was FOUR years after his 2009 draft year.
I was always a huge defender of Hedman during his much criticized early years. How can you forget the crap he took? NHL Dman take time, it’s the toughest job next to goalie. Sergachev needs the same opportunity, because he has similar, albeit raw talent.

 

[TampaJay]

Nobody used the bust word on Hedman at 19.. problem with Sergachev is there's no ice time for him in the NHL, Hedman had a secured top-4 role at that age.

Here’s a quote from a 2016 FANRAG article. Sergachev deserves the same “poise and patience†the Lightning gave Hedman. It will pan out.

“He’s been in the league since 2009-10, but it took him the better part of four seasons to evolve into the world-class player that he is today. Hedman was such a slow bloomer that some pundits were calling him a bust by his third year in the NHL. Tampa Bay showed great poise and patience while developing the former second-overall pick, and he has rewarded the organization by blossoming into one of the top defenders in pro hockey.â€

 

[Sky04]

Here’s a tweet from a hockey writer in Dec 2013…

Victor Hedman quietly erasing his "bust" status. 15 points, 30 hits, 31 blocks, 20 takeaways and averaging 21:54 ice time in 27 games.

That tweet was FOUR years after his 2009 draft year.
I was always a huge defender of Hedman during his much criticized early years. How can you forget the crap he took? NHL Dman take time, it’s the toughest job next to goalie. Sergachev needs the same opportunity, because he has similar, albeit raw talent.

4 years in...... nobody calls anybody a bust 1 year after their draft. The biggest problem with Hedman is his stagnation from 1st to 2nd year then decline in play the 3rd year. Nobody called him a bust at year 2. Question marks were at year 3 with that defensive play, he didn't really break out until half way through that 4 year.

 

[TampaJay]

4 years in...... nobody calls anybody a bust 1 year after their draft. The biggest problem with Hedman is his stagnation from 1st to 2nd year then decline in play the 3rd year. Nobody called him a bust at year 2. Question marks were at year 3 with that defensive play, he didn't really break out until half way through that 4 year.

Ok, I’ll agree. Let’s just give Sergachev the same development cycle over 4 years, with plenty of ups and more down, as we gave Hedman. I remember very well Victor Hedman at 19, and it required a lot of faith to think he was going to be worthy of a #2OA pick. He had guys like Ohlund, and a management who believed in him. No one thought of sending him back to junior or Sweden when he was in Sergachev’s position. I’m just saying, when you get talents like Hedman or Sergachev, a little patience is required to develop them and they can’t be develop facing 16-year-old kids in juniors, they are too damn good. We just have to live with their mistakes for a couple of years.

 

[Sky04]

Ok, I’ll agree. Let’s just give Sergachev the same development cycle over 4 years, with plenty of ups and more down, as we gave Hedman. I remember very well Victor Hedman at 19, and it required a lot of faith to think he was going to be worthy of a #2OA pick. He had guys like Ohlund, and a management who believed in him. No one thought of sending him back to junior or Sweden when he was in Sergachev’s position. I’m just saying, when you get talents like Hedman or Sergachev, a little patience is required to develop them and they can’t be develop facing 16-year-old kids in juniors, they are too damn good. We just have to live with their mistakes for a couple of years.

Actually I'm guna disagree again, different team different needs, Hedman benefited playing on a weaker team so there was more oppertunity, Sergachev doesn't have that. He'll still benefit tons from going back down and rounding himself out, Hedman was wasn't nearly as raw as Sergachev is right now. Sergachev isn't heads and shoulders above Jr's, he had a good year not a dominant one, the kid physically outclasses most of his peers but he's been known to coast, we're seeing it even in these pre-season games, partially want to see him get sent down to see how he responds to it.

Windsor is probably the only Jr. team I watch time to time, Sergachev is twice as talented physically but is nowhere near as dominant as Ryan Ellis was when he was there.

 

[dave_no]

About Volkov isn't much information, but he plays great. How comparison and upside for him?