GDT: 9/20/17 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Carolina [Preseason Game 2]

[Sky04]

my assertion has always been lets give him more time before the trade block (which was suggested), which has history on it's side. whatever strawman you are attacking based on your perception of my position is irrelevant to me.

Man I hate when people start playing victim when they start losing.

But lets pick apart your argument, you want to give him time but we're also "competing" now so shouldn't we ice the best possible team? One pre-season game is not the be all end all but if don't have a secure roster spot these games have a ton of meaning. We have 6 roster defenseman right now with Hedman, Stralman, Coburn, Sustr, Dotchin, and Giradi, with Sergachev, Koekkoek and Cernak fighting for spots.

You are not going to get any quality minutes carrying 8 defenseman, he need to win out between the other 2 now (again why pre-season matters for him), it seems like you're saying is we should default that 7th spot to Koekkoek and give him 20~ games to evaluate before we move on. We don't have to trade him but if he goes to AHL again in favor of Sergachev he's done as well barring a major flop in the 9 game trial.

 

[The Macho King]

Man I hate when people start playing victim when they start losing.

But lets pick apart your argument, you want to give him time but we're also "competing" now so shouldn't we ice the best possible team? One pre-season game is not the be all end all but if don't have a secure roster spot these games have a ton of meaning. We have 6 roster defenseman right now with Hedman, Stralman, Coburn, Sustr, Dotchin, and Giradi, with Sergachev, Koekkoek and Cernak fighting for spots.

You are not going to get any quality minutes carrying 8 defenseman, he need to win out between the other 2 now (again why pre-season matters for him), it seems like you're saying is we should default that 7th spot to Koekkoek and give him 20~ games to evaluate before we move on. We don't have to trade him but if he goes to AHL again in favor of Sergachev he's done as well barring a major flop in the 9 game trial.

Only thing I'll say is I don't think he's competing with Cernak. Cernak is a RHD and we're loaded on the NHL roster with those. Cernak is likely first call up, though.

 

[Sky04]

Only thing I'll say is I don't think he's competing with Cernak. Cernak is a RHD and we're loaded on the NHL roster with those. Cernak is likely first call up, though.

I mean, he could be out Sustr for a spot at this rate

 

[The Macho King]

I mean, he could be out Sustr for a spot at this rate

I will say it's not impossible - if Dotchin regresses and Sustr is Sustr, we could give him a shot. We have wiggle room with him though since we can send him down to Cuse and back as needed. I just don't think he gets a spot out of camp.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Namestnikov - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Gourde - Callahan
Kunitz - Dumont - Brown
Paquette

Hedman - Dotchin
Coburn - Stralman
Sergachev - Girardi/Sustr
Koekkoek

Erne - Peca - Conacher
McGinn - Cirelli - Joseph
Volkov - Verhaeghe - Stephens
Yan - Bournival - Condra
Lynch

Bodie - Cernak
Masin - Thomas
Spencer - McBain
Walcott/McNeil

That's a rough look at both rosters. We could keep 8 D and only player we might lose is Conacher but don't see him being claimed. What you see is how weak we are on the left, we are most likely keeping Koekkoek and Sergachev because of that. Our callup would be someone with no NHL experience.

I can see a scenario where the team likes Cernak a lot and want to get him some looks, with the RD depth we could move Sustr to a team with excess LD looking for a RD then Koekkoek for a prospect LD who's in the AHL.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Time is exactly what Koekkoek doesn't have. It's been 4 years, it's now or never for him. With all the competition at the position, if he doesn't impress and make the team from the start, he's likely gone.

 

[DFC]

Namestnikov - Stamkos - Kucherov
Palat - Johnson - Point
Killorn - Gourde - Callahan
Kunitz - Dumont - Brown
Paquette

Hedman - Dotchin
Coburn - Stralman
Sergachev - Girardi/Sustr
Koekkoek

Erne - Peca - Conacher
McGinn - Cirelli - Joseph
Volkov - Verhaeghe - Stephens
Yan - Bournival - Condra
Lynch

Bodie - Cernak
Masin - Thomas
Spencer - McBain
Walcott/McNeil

That's a rough look at both rosters. We could keep 8 D and only player we might lose is Conacher but don't see him being claimed. What you see is how weak we are on the left, we are most likely keeping Koekkoek and Sergachev because of that. Our callup would be someone with no NHL experience.

I can see a scenario where the team likes Cernak a lot and want to get him some looks, with the RD depth we could move Sustr to a team with excess LD looking for a RD then Koekkoek for a prospect LD who's in the AHL.

Feels like it's gonna be tough to keep Erne down this year. Which I guess is another part of the case against holding 8 D.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Time is exactly what Koekkoek doesn't have. It's been 4 years, it's now or never for him. With all the competition at the position, if he doesn't impress and make the team from the start, he's likely gone.

Then what do we do when Hedman misses his usual handful of games or Sergachev has a rough patch? Do we go with Girardi - Sustr because the LD options in Syracuse aren't ready. We need him for depth at least, let him walk after the year if we have to.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Feels like it's gonna be tough to keep Erne down this year. Which I guess is another part of the case against holding 8 D.

Problem is he's a LW which we are deepest at, he's waiver exempt and if he stays who goes down Brown or Paquette? Think Dumont makes the team because of faceoffs, we have nobody close to being as good.

 

[The Macho King]

Problem is he's a LW which we are deepest at, he's waiver exempt and if he stays who goes down Brown or Paquette? Think Dumont makes the team because of faceoffs, we have nobody close to being as good.

I'd really rather have Paquette over Dumont on the fourth line. Yeah faceoffs are great, but that's literally the only thing he's good at. We don't need another Konopka.

Paquette - when he's on - is a fantastic fourth liner. He can chip in some offense, he plays hard, hits like a truck, and pisses off the other team. The problem is (of course) the fact that he is only 100% for about 6 games a season.

And frankly - I think Brown may go down. If last season is any indication, he may have been surpassed on the depth chart. He was really bad last year, and if he doesn't get better I just don't see the reason to keep him. And Erne can play both wings if needed.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'd really rather have Paquette over Dumont on the fourth line. Yeah faceoffs are great, but that's literally the only thing he's good at. We don't need another Konopka.

Paquette - when he's on - is a fantastic fourth liner. He can chip in some offense, he plays hard, hits like a truck, and pisses off the other team. The problem is (of course) the fact that he is only 100% for about 6 games a season.

And frankly - I think Brown may go down. If last season is any indication, he may have been surpassed on the depth chart. He was really bad last year, and if he doesn't get better I just don't see the reason to keep him. And Erne can play both wings if needed.

I like Paquette more too but the way Cooper rode Dumont on the dot think he makes the team. We started winning more when Dumont was up because he won the draw so we had the puck more.

If Brown goes I wouldn't care I just don't want to see him waived and claimed. Trade him for someone who cleared waivers or a prospect not requiring them. We need a few bodies especially after how bad we were hit last year. Another thing with Erne is having him on the 4th line isn't going to help him out at all. His offense wasn't much when he was up last year and being on the 4th line isn't going to kick start it. Maybe he can play the 3rd line and Callahan the 4th, then you got a 5.8mil 4th liner which is another discussion.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Man I hate when people start playing victim when they start losing.

But lets pick apart your argument, you want to give him time but we're also "competing" now so shouldn't we ice the best possible team? One pre-season game is not the be all end all but if don't have a secure roster spot these games have a ton of meaning. We have 6 roster defenseman right now with Hedman, Stralman, Coburn, Sustr, Dotchin, and Giradi, with Sergachev, Koekkoek and Cernak fighting for spots.

You are not going to get any quality minutes carrying 8 defenseman, he need to win out between the other 2 now (again why pre-season matters for him), it seems like you're saying is we should default that 7th spot to Koekkoek and give him 20~ games to evaluate before we move on. We don't have to trade him but if he goes to AHL again in favor of Sergachev he's done as well barring a major flop in the 9 game trial.

i never mentioned anything about more time than pre-season. eff why eye

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

Brown and paquette need not make this team. They are too comfortable. Have gone from effective 4th liners to passengers. Bring in some guys who are hungry.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Brown and paquette need not make this team. They are too comfortable. Have gone from effective 4th liners to passengers. Bring in some guys who are hungry.

I don't think it's a comfort thing. Everyone wants players to improve on their best season and blame the player when they don't. We want 60 goal Stamkos, 72 point Johnson, Callahan scoring over 50, Brown to put up 22 points and Paquette to score 12 goals again. I would love to upgrade these guys too but who is it? Erne didn't impress me with his offense last year, Conacher isn't the answer and we need to bring the kids along slowly. Throwing Joseph or Stephens out there on the 4th line isn't going to help their development.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Rather send Serg down than trade Koekkoek. Still think we need to give KK a one year shot, I liked how he played in the Calder Cup playoffs. I don't think we'd get anything back in a trade for him either.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Rather send Serg down than trade Koekkoek. Still think we need to give KK a one year shot, I liked how he played in the Calder Cup playoffs. I don't think we'd get anything back in a trade for him either.

Honestly would rather have both. KK and Serg cannot be worse than Sustr and Girardi. Keep the both of them and put Sustr on waivers.

 

[DFC]

Problem is he's a LW which we are deepest at, he's waiver exempt and if he stays who goes down Brown or Paquette? Think Dumont makes the team because of faceoffs, we have nobody close to being as good.

My gut feeling is Coop wants Dumont too. But I agree with your forward list anyway. That's why I'm saying it might be extra unlikely we go 13/8. I think it's more likely we keep Erne at the expense of a D.

Odds are a little stacked against Serg, IMO.

 

[DFC]

I'd really rather have Paquette over Dumont on the fourth line. Yeah faceoffs are great, but that's literally the only thing he's good at. We don't need another Konopka.

Paquette - when he's on - is a fantastic fourth liner. He can chip in some offense, he plays hard, hits like a truck, and pisses off the other team. The problem is (of course) the fact that he is only 100% for about 6 games a season.

And frankly - I think Brown may go down. If last season is any indication, he may have been surpassed on the depth chart. He was really bad last year, and if he doesn't get better I just don't see the reason to keep him. And Erne can play both wings if needed.

I disagree a bit on Dumont. I think Paquette's the better player, but I think Dumont sticks around for those faceoffs. On a normal team, maybe that wouldn't be important, but we were losing a lot of big draws before Dumont started taking so many key ones. If I remember correctly, our PK got a lot better once he started winning so many faceoffs. And he generally doesn't lose them cleanly even when he loses.

But I mean, it's not like Paquette's gonna stay healthy anyway.

Agreed on Brown. Might be time to move on from him. Either send him down or deal him to a rebuilding team, unless he really shows us something in the pre-season.

 

[Sky04]

Honestly would rather have both. KK and Serg cannot be worse than Sustr and Girardi. Keep the both of them and put Sustr on waivers.

I mean if last season didn't happen I wouldn't think so either. When Sustr is a better positional player then you, you're not doing a great job.

 

[Todd1a]

Honestly would rather have both. KK and Serg cannot be worse than Sustr and Girardi. Keep the both of them and put Sustr on waivers.

we all know they will never put sustr on waivers lol

 

[waterboy65]

After the Drouin drama over being sent down a few years back, somehow I believe that Yzerman will find a way to keep Sergachev on the final roster. By all accounts, Serg has done everything to secure a roster spot thus far by working hard and that goal in his first game doesn't hurt his cause.

I think they will keep 8 D on the roster to start the season. I suspect we will see a surprise release/trade if there is no injury among the forwards and Erne will be playing opening night.

 

[Todd1a]

After the Drouin drama over being sent down a few years back, somehow I believe that Yzerman will find a way to keep Sergachev on the final roster. By all accounts, Serg has done everything to secure a roster spot thus far by working hard and that goal in his first game doesn't hurt his cause.

I think they will keep 8 D on the roster to start the season. I suspect we will see a surprise release/trade if there is no injury among the forwards and Erne will be playing opening night.

they have no reason to at least not give sergachev the 8 game tryout before going back to juniors

 

[The Macho King]

After the Drouin drama over being sent down a few years back, somehow I believe that Yzerman will find a way to keep Sergachev on the final roster. By all accounts, Serg has done everything to secure a roster spot thus far by working hard and that goal in his first game doesn't hurt his cause.

I think they will keep 8 D on the roster to start the season. I suspect we will see a surprise release/trade if there is no injury among the forwards and Erne will be playing opening night.

So... the counterpoint to this is the Connolly drama. Yzerman kept him up in his draft +2 season, and he was underwhelming. Now, maybe that's just because Connolly is an underwhelming player and developed ultimately into what he is - cheap third line option with a good shot - but we have examples going each direction on this.

Edit: I agree on at least giving him some regular season games, though. We can carry 8 Dmen for a couple of weeks if we need to.

 

[Sky04]

After the Drouin drama over being sent down a few years back, somehow I believe that Yzerman will find a way to keep Sergachev on the final roster. By all accounts, Serg has done everything to secure a roster spot thus far by working hard and that goal in his first game doesn't hurt his cause.

I think they will keep 8 D on the roster to start the season. I suspect we will see a surprise release/trade if there is no injury among the forwards and Erne will be playing opening night.

What Drouin drama? He went back to jr's as an 18 year old, played center and ripped the Q, there was no drama, we knew he was making the team as a 19 year old anyways.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Glad we won last night and I’m glad to hear that some of our younger guys look great.

I did think about the quote from Sergachev that TheDaysOf 04 posted that made me curies since he said that he hadn’t been able to do much when only playing 10 minutes a night and if he meant just for their pre-season and showing off since if he does make the big club he’s not getting more than 10 minutes a night for a while and then he has to be able to do something with those minutes, but it’s possible that I misunderstood what he meant.

The 10 minutes a night thing was how Montreal played him as an 18 year old last season. I don't know why they played him so sparingly. Maybe that was their intention? Just give him a little taste of what the game and the day-to-day stuff is like in the NHL? But my guess is that maybe Sergachev came away with the impression that he was being benched for rookie mistakes & thus created the idea that he'd have to play mistake-free to make it. That's obviously a bad mindset to have, but it could explain why he's been nervous and hard on himself early in our camp. I don't know for sure. Just a guess.