GDT: 9/20/17 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Carolina [Preseason Game 2]

[LightningStrikes]

Dumont destroyed these fools on faceoffs!

 

[Brie]

Glad we won last night and I’m glad to hear that some of our younger guys look great.

I did think about the quote from Sergachev that TheDaysOf 04 posted that made me curies since he said that he hadn’t been able to do much when only playing 10 minutes a night and if he meant just for their pre-season and showing off since if he does make the big club he’s not getting more than 10 minutes a night for a while and then he has to be able to do something with those minutes, but it’s possible that I misunderstood what he meant.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

at this point KK is worth more to us than a second, don't HF boards everyone with draft picks

 

[The Macho King]

at this point KK is worth more to us than a second, don't HF boards everyone with draft picks

Why is that? He's what - draft+4 now and has not stuck at all in the NHL. How is he worth more than a 2nd? Hell - how is he even worth a 2nd?

Edit: For context - would you give a 2nd for Derrick Pouliot? He has similar stats, similar draft position in the same draft. And he has not stuck in the NHL. Why is that worth a 2nd?

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Because a second has >30% Chance of ever making the nhl, and we’re competing now? Has everyone completely forgotten about the injury issues last year? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

[Todd1a]

I'll check my email when I'm back at my computer this afternoon.

I wasn't able to watch the 2nd preseason game but Serg was a beast at fan fest and the highlight of his goal is awesome.

I watched him at camp on monday he has flashes he is a rookie that will make mistakes like you would expect but has big upside I like him a lot. I just don't know who they will partner serg with I hope stralman or heddy.

 

[Shoresy Snipes]

So did Serge look like a nhler ? will he make the club ?

Based on what I've seen from SY and Coop, Serg gets sent back for another year in the O. It's really a shame there isn't some exception on sending top prospects to AHL, or maybe there will end up being a Euro pro league "prospect loaner" option at some point.

Either way, if I were to bet on it, I'd say Coop really favors veterans more often than not (ie. playing Sustr/Girardi ONLY b/c of their experience, over a better inexperienced younger player; especially at D), and SY wants that 2nd round pick next year anyway - (who doubts that?).

I'm just hoping Serg doesn't have the same petulant child syndrome that Drouin had

(and I really wouldn't consider, even for a moment, SY's public media comments on "we're really gonna give him a chance" BS. Really, what else is a GM/coach publicly going to say?)

With that said, he gets 8-10 games at the start and then back to the O.

 

[The Macho King]

Because a second has >30% Chance of ever making the nhl, and we’re competing now? Has everyone completely forgotten about the injury issues last year? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

And KK likely has about the same of being a permanent member of our squad (if not less, honestly). If the organization had faith that KK was continuing to develop at a pace germane to his draft position, they wouldn't have felt the need to get Sergachev in the first place.

Just because KK is penciled into our lineup at the moment doesn't mean he's an NHL quality player. Nesterov was on our NHL team last year and we're lucky to have gotten a 6th for him, and I haven't seen much from KK to place him much higher than Nesterov.

Edit: That's a long way of saying that KK is not an NHL-quality player, so if we can still get value from a depreciating prospect we should.

 

[HoseEmDown]

For Koekkoek to be effective and to pump his value up he needs the Dotchin treatment. Put him next to Stralman, who'll cover all his mistakes, with favorable zone starts and matchups. Let him do what he does best which is carry the puck while improving the weaker aspects of his game, board play and gap control. We are too weak on the left side of our defense to trade him away and not get another LD. If we have an injury Masin is the most likely call up and he's not ready for much yet.

 

[DFC]

Because a second has >30% Chance of ever making the nhl, and we’re competing now? Has everyone completely forgotten about the injury issues last year? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Probably depends on whether or not he's blocking a player who can contribute more in the immediate future. Obviously Sergachev comes to mind, but it seems like Cernak has been the surprise prospect of the summer.

I think I'd rather look for a similarly stalled prospect in another organization though, rather than trading him for a pick.

 

[Sky04]

Because a second has >30% Chance of ever making the nhl, and we’re competing now? Has everyone completely forgotten about the injury issues last year? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

With Koekkoek's play how exactly does he help even if we get injured? Unless the goal is just to fill bodies on the ice, Koekkoek was terrible during callup last year - to your point we're competing now we don't need liabilities like that, you could use a 2nd in a trade for upgrades.

You talk like we're trading away an effective NHLer, right now he's a bottom tier bottom pairing dman at best - he REALLY needs to step up and do something this year.

 

[DFC]

With Koekkoek's play how exactly does he help even if we get injured? Unless the goal is just to fill bodies on the ice, Koekkoek was terrible during callup last year - to your point we're competing now we don't need liabilities like that, you could use a 2nd in a trade for upgrades.

You talk like we're trading away an effective NHLer, right now he's a bottom tier bottom pairing dman at best - he REALLY needs to step up and do something this year.

In Koekkoek's defense though, we were all very high on him after the 2016 playoffs. Then we kind of Brett Connolly'd him last year.

I would have hoped early reports on him were better. I'm just saying, it wasn't THAT long ago that he still looked like a very good prospect.

I guess I'd be for moving him as long as one of the other prospects, one without a history of Yzerman/Cooper yoyo-ing them around, looked ready to step in immediately. But I think there's still a pretty good chance KK develops into a solid NHLer.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Again, it’s been one single preseason game.

 

[Sky04]

In Koekkoek's defense though, we were all very high on him after the 2016 playoffs. Then we kind of Brett Connolly'd him last year.

I would have hoped early reports on him were better. I'm just saying, it wasn't THAT long ago that he still looked like a very good prospect.

I guess I'd be for moving him as long as one of the other prospects, one without a history of Yzerman/Cooper yoyo-ing them around, looked ready to step in immediately. But I think there's still a pretty good chance KK develops into a solid NHLer.

If you let that kind of stuff throw you off your game that bad then you're weak mentally. Brett Connolly hasn't exactly gotten any better since we moved on from him, he's a fringe NHL player who's benefit is that he's cheap depth.

I still think he can be a top-4 d-man as well but he's running out of time to prove that in this organization. Regardless of his treatment this year he needs to make the most of any opportunity he's given, including pre-season.

 

[Sky04]

Again, it’s been one single preseason game.

I don't see anyone over reacting over "one single preseason game".

 

[The Macho King]

Again, it’s been one single preseason game.

And if he was being evaluated solely on one preseason game as opposed to his entire career, maybe repeating this line over and over again wouldn't be stupid.

Edit: And to put a finer point on it - If Sergachev outplays him in camp, there is a significant risk that his limited "preseason games" could lead to him being put on waivers. So - there are a total of 8 preaseason games and he's not going to play in all of them. He needs to have at least "one single preaseason game" where he shows he can make a positive impact.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

No no, I’m dumb. Not the hive mind knee jerk reaction. Mea culpa.

 

[The Macho King]

No no, I’m dumb. Not the hive mind knee jerk reaction. Mea culpa.

Excellent. Provide no content to defend the idea that Koekkoek deserves a spot on this team despite his abysmal play last season, and when people point out that his spot on the team is not assured, give a sarcastic and content-less response instead.

At least Hose presents facts (taken completely out of context, but facts nonetheless) to defend his opinions instead of relying entirely on bald assertions.

 

[DFC]

If you let that kind of stuff throw you off your game that bad then you're weak mentally. Brett Connolly hasn't exactly gotten any better since we moved on from him, he's a fringe NHL player who's benefit is that he's cheap depth.

I still think he can be a top-4 d-man as well but he's running out of time to prove that in this organization. Regardless of his treatment this year he needs to make the most of any opportunity he's given, including pre-season.

Yeah, I agree that he's likely running out of time, especially now that we don't have a realistic option to demote him. So playing him means not playing somebody else.

Assuming he does enough to make the team over some of the younger prospects, I'd like to see where we're at with him 30-40 games in. I know last season was a disappointment, but before then, we were all clamoring for him to make the team. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that he finds his stride. Also not outside the realm of possibility that he becomes a 7th/8th Dman and requests a trade.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

my assertion has always been lets give him more time before the trade block (which was suggested), which has history on it's side. whatever strawman you are attacking based on your perception of my position is irrelevant to me.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Excellent. Provide no content to defend the idea that Koekkoek deserves a spot on this team despite his abysmal play last season, and when people point out that his spot on the team is not assured, give a sarcastic and content-less response instead.

At least Hose presents facts (taken completely out of context, but facts nonetheless) to defend his opinions instead of relying entirely on bald assertions.

I don't know why this made me laugh so much.

 

[The Macho King]

my assertion has always been lets give him more time before the trade block (which was suggested), which has history on it's side. whatever strawman you are attacking based on my position is irrelevant to me.

Learn what a strawman is before you say I'm attacking a strawman. "Give him more time" isn't much of an option when he's waiver eligible and potentially passed already. If Sergachev outplays him and looks better than him - we, as a contender, need to ice the best team available. That's why "one preseason game" matters.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

clearly you just want to argue, which normally i'd be down with, but "love the poster, hate the post" is my motto.

koekkoek's greatest battle will always be his draft position in a defense-heavy draft. he had high expectations that he will truly never achieve. I'll admit that I wanted trouba myself, and i find it humorous that we beat winnipeg in the last game of the season to allow them the pick right before us when they draftd him. but i truly believe that koekkoek on the bench is a far greater team benefit than getting a second rounder (or whatever) from a "change of scenario" team. i agree that i don't think he should play over anyone that is better than him, and we mos def lose him sending him down, but i don't know any younger players that aren't going to make the team that he is taking a spot over. and if he's a 7th/8th defenseman sobeit imo

 

[RussianGuyovich]

also, im pretty sure that i know my internet debate logical fallacy's.

peep that reg date bro

 

[The Macho King]

We have 4 Dmen on the right side on one-way contracts (Stralman, Dotchin, Girardi, Sustr) and two on the left side that are locks for the team (Hedman and Coburn).

It is unlikely we carry 8 Dmen on the roster throughout the season. So we most likely have one spot on the NHL roster on the backend. That means either Sergachev or Koekkoek.

Maybe we carry 8 Dmen to start the year and give Sergachev a taste. Considering we are more at risk of losing KK than any forward sent down, that's a possibility. But eventually the decision is going to be Sergachev or Koekkoek. And my hope is Sergachev makes the team. He's more dynamic, has more offensive instincts, and I think is too good to go back to Juniors.