74-75 75-76 Pittsburgh Penguins

[carjackmalone]

I Came across a wiki rabbit hole and noticed the scoring Stats for the Pens those two years.Seems like they were on the cusp of being an Elite Team .

What’s the story here huge quarter finals run even more scoring the next season and then just fell flat

What’s was the actual potential of the Pens at the time ?

Click to read more...

 

[Davenport]

There was a coaching carousel in Pittsburgh at that time. Ken Schinkel replaced Red Kelly during the 1972-73 season. Marc Boileau replaced Schinkel during the 1973-74 season. Boileau was behind the bench for the 1974-75 season - when the Penguins exploded offensively (scoring 326 goals, 4th best in the NHL), and won 37 games (9 more than in 1973-74) and picked up 89 points (24 more than in 1973-74). During the postseason, Pittsburgh swept St. Louis in the first round, and looked like they were going to do the same to the Islanders, winning the first 3 games, before losing the next four.

Wonder if the sour taste from the series with the Islanders led to the Penguins sputtering during the first half of the 1975-76 season? When Schinkel returned behind the bench, Pittsburgh was 15-23-5. They then went 20-10-7, returning to the playoffs. Ken had them back in the postseason in 1976-77.

Johnny Wilson was the coach for the next three seasons, missing the playoffs in 1977-78, but returning to the postseason in 1978-79 and 1979-80. Eddie Johnston then went behind the bench for three seasons, going to the playoffs the first two seasons: 1980-81 and 1981-82.

Imagine the the Penguins of the 1970s with Fred Shero behind the bench, and Bernie Parent in net.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

The Pens already had a solid offensive group with Syl Apps, Jean Pronovost and Lowell MacDonald when they added rookie phenom Pierre Larouche, young gun Rick Kehoe and veteran Vic Hadfield to the lineup for the 74-75 season, which helped vault them into 4th place in 75 and 2nd in 76 in GF. Veteran forward Ron Schock and their top blueliner Ron Stackhouse had career years playing on the top units with that group. Notable also was the presence of Battleship Kelly, who became one of the most feared, intimidating players in the game during his run with the Pens. For younger folk who missed him, Battleship was the Bob Probert of his day, a guy who would fight anyone *and* put pucks in the net.

They were shy of being an eltie team at the time because they lacked defensive depth and a true starting goaltender. After Jim Rutherford was shipped out, they cycled through Andy Brown and Michel Plasse, two guys who notoriously struggled throughout their careers. As mentioned above, there was also the coaching carousel, but it must be noted that there was a carousel in the front office, too. By luck as much as design, I think they just happened at the time to hit on a group of guys that gelled together at the right time, with that solid core of Apps-Pronovost at their career peaks playing with a couple of hot young guys, a few offesnive-minded vets stepping up for their last hurrah, and one of the toughest guys in the league riding shotgun.

Interestingly, the top-heavy, offesnive juggernaut roster construction that emerged during this time period became the template for the Penguins organization for decades.

 

[Davenport]

The Pens already had a solid offensive group with Syl Apps, Jean Pronovost and Lowell MacDonald when they added rookie phenom Pierre Larouche, young gun Rick Kehoe and veteran Vic Hadfield to the lineup for the 74-75 season, which helped vault them into 4th place in 75 and 2nd in 76 in GF. Veteran forward Ron Schock and their top blueliner Ron Stackhouse had career years playing on the top units with that group. Notable also was the presence of Battleship Kelly, who became one of the most feared, intimidating players in the game during his run with the Pens. For younger folk who missed him, Battleship was the Bob Probert of his day, a guy who would fight anyone *and* put pucks in the net.

They were shy of being an eltie team at the time because they lacked defensive depth and a true starting goaltender. After Jim Rutherford was shipped out, they cycled through Andy Brown and Michel Plasse, two guys who notoriously struggled throughout their careers. As mentioned above, there was also the coaching carousel, but it must be noted that there was a carousel in the front office, too. By luck as much as design, I think they just happened at the time to hit on a group of guys that gelled together at the right time, with that solid core of Apps-Pronovost at their career peaks playing with a couple of hot young guys, a few offesnive-minded vets stepping up for their last hurrah, and one of the toughest guys in the league riding shotgun.

Interestingly, the top-heavy, offesnive juggernaut roster construction that emerged during this time period became the template for the Penguins organization for decades.

Still remember an interview where Emile Francis mentioned that Bob Battleship Kelly had been the property of the New York Rangers. Imagine Kelly on the Rangers' third line, with Andre Dupont (drafted by the Rangers) and Jim Dorey (acquired in a trade, 1971-72) on the blueline. Francis would have had himself a much tougher team to play against.

 

[Crosby2010]

They did not have great defense or goaltending. The 1976 Pens had three players with 99 points or more. Only the Flyers scored more goals than them, even the Habs scored two less goals than them.

Also, that 1975 loss to the Isles hurt I am sure. Being the 2nd team in history (and to this day just 1 of 4) to blow a 3-0 series lead never does wonders for a team. They had a goaltending carousel too those years. They had offensive talent, but were very one-dimensional. And they squandered a young Pierre Larouche when they traded him to the Habs for an aging Pete Mahovlich.

 

[The Panther]

And they squandered a young Pierre Larouche when they traded him to the Habs for an aging Pete Mahovlich.

Why did they do this?

 

[wetcoast]

They did not have great defense or goaltending. The 1976 Pens had three players with 99 points or more. Only the Flyers scored more goals than them, even the Habs scored two less goals than them.

This is the obvious answer but the reality was that the forwards also didn't give a crap about playing defesne which as noted above seemed to be the template for the Pens for most of the 20th century.

Also, that 1975 loss to the Isles hurt I am sure. Being the 2nd team in history (and to this day just 1 of 4) to blow a 3-0 series lead never does wonders for a team. They had a goaltending carousel too those years. They had offensive talent, but were very one-dimensional. And they squandered a young Pierre Larouche when they traded him to the Habs for an aging Pete Mahovlich.

Blowing the 3-0 lead kinda symbolized the mentality of the team and it ironically happened again to the Pens against the Islanders with a Mario led team in the 93 Patrick division final although it wasn't a blown 3-0 lead it was probably a larger upset.

 

[wetcoast]

Why did they do this?

Well Larouche was off to a dread full start with a 20-6-5-11 (13) and was the scapegoat much like a young Sundin traded for Clark.

Rookies Greg Malone and Blair chapman were off to pretty decent starts as well.

I'm sure someone has more precise details about the matter though and Pete seemed like fair value but they shipped him off to Detroit after the 78-79 for Nick Libett so management was a huge problem as well.

To be fair though Larouche had back to back seasons with injury concerns as cited here.

1974 NHL Amateur Draft -- Pierre Larouche

Missed part of 1976-77 season with broken left thumb. ... Missed most of Pittsburgh's 1977 training camp while recovering from surgery to remove bone chips in his ankle. ..

the same site goes on to say this, which was well known around the elague at the time for many players, not jsut Pierre,

Was often criticized for his happy-go-lucky attitude, which he said some coaches mistook for a lack of passion for game.

 

[decma]

Why did they do this?

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the day after the trade:

“Pierre never quite got in the groove this season.” Coach John Wilson said. “I have to think it was (a lack of) effort more than anything else. Everyone associated with Pierre expected more and the more never arrived.”

As a 20-year old (1975-76) Larouche became the youngest player ever to score more than 50 goals or 100 points in a single NHL season. He slumped last season – a year filled with turmoil, including a brief suspension for insubordination – scoring 29 goals, 63 points in 65 games.

He spiced his season of discontent with several outspoken demands to be traded, but vetoed a deal that would have sent him to Cleveland for center Dennis Maruk and right win Al MacAdam.

Larouche agreed to waive a no-trade clause in his contract before yesterday’s deal was completed.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

A Washington Post article from a couple days later described Pierre as follows:

Attitude problems, hard to handle and missed practices.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1977/11/30/canadiens-swap-mahovlich-for-penguin-larouche/9c1ed949-cc81-4339-bb4b-8d99d3bd5242/

Obviously Maruk and MacAdam would have been a much better return, but given the no-trade clause, maybe Mahovolich and Lee was the best option the Penguins had.

 

[reckoning]

At the time of the trade, everyone thought that Sam Pollock had pulled off another fleecing. Mahovlich was past his prime, Lee couldn't make Montreal's lineup. It seemed like a small price to pay for Larouche, who was only 22 and a right handed shot, which Montreal was lacking. The thinking in the media was that if Larouche could score 50 goals and 100 points on a mediocre team like Pittsburgh, imagine how he could do on Montreal.

As it turned out, not nearly as well. Due to an inability or unwillingness to adapt to Scotty Bowman's system, he found himself on the bench a lot. He got his name on the Cup in '78 and '79, but was a healthy scratch for many of those playoff games.

The only time Larouche really thrived in Montreal was the two months in 79-80 when Bernie Geoffrion was the coach. 24 goals in 30 games.

 

[Crosby2010]

Blowing the 3-0 lead kinda symbolized the mentality of the team and it ironically happened again to the Pens against the Islanders with a Mario led team in the 93 Patrick division final although it wasn't a blown 3-0 lead it was probably a larger upset.

The Pens traditionally have had trouble with the Islanders over the years. So many times they should have won and didn't. 1975 up 3-0 in the series. You need to win that. Isles had Potvin and Gillies and Resch/Smith, but there was no Trottier or Bossy there yet. 1982 the Isles are obviously the better team and proved it, but the Pens had a 3-1 lead in the 3rd period of the clinching Game 5 before the Isles tied it and won it in overtime. 1993 we all know the story, and it is still gut wrenching to watch.

Why did they do this?

It was mentioned a bit a couple posts up, and I agree with it. There was no way that Larouche shouldn't have done better. Even on the Rangers he had some success. I have to say that the Habs are better keeping Mahovlich. In 1976 he has 105 points and is centre for Lafleur. 1977 I think they were using Lemaire more at centre by then, Mahovlich had 62 points. 9 points in 13 playoff games. Still good. But then early in 1977-'78 he had 8 points in 17 games. Maybe they thought this was a good time to unload him. In reality Larouche should have been much better, but Mahovlich was definitely a better fit and still would have been in 1978 and 1979. He knew the system, Larouche didn't. Even as late as 1980 Mahovlich had 66 points for the Red Wings. Plus his penalty killing and play away from the puck was better.

 

[Davenport]

My mind reels at the thought of Dennis Maruk joining the Penguins. In 1977-78, he could have had Jean Pronovost on right wing, and his choice of the left wingers then in Pittsburgh: Dave Schultz, Brian Spencer and Wayne Bianchin. Might have put up numbers like he did later in Washington.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the day after the trade:

“Pierre never quite got in the groove this season.” Coach John Wilson said. “I have to think it was (a lack of) effort more than anything else. Everyone associated with Pierre expected more and the more never arrived.”

This was the reputation Larouche had for his entire career, and usually the stated reason why he was moved in every instance. As noted above, he drove coaches like Bowman nuts because he simply marched to the beat of his own drummer. He was notoriously streaky and would at times look like the best player in the league but would disappear completely for long stretches. He also had a reputation for heavy partying/womanizing, which may have impacted his quality of play at times, as well. I seem to recall him even being accused of using his injuries to stay out of the lineup longer than he should so he could essentially get paid to party.

I thought Larouche was actually at his absolute best near the end of his career with the Rangers in 85-86, when he was 30. His first season with the Rangers in 83-84 was his most consistent campaign in years, with 48 goals. Next season, he regressed to his half-assed mean, and by the beginning of the 86 season, the Rangers had had enough, and they waived him when coach Ted Sator sent him to the farm. He was recalled late in the season and ended up scoring 20 goals in 27 games, and inexplicably emerged as a playoff beast, not only leading the Rangers offensively, but also, for the first time in his career, looking like a solid, well-rounded, hardworking veteran leader taking the troops into battle as they upset the Flyers and the Capitals and made a run to the Conference Final. It was the Larouche everyone had hoped to see for his entire career, and it seems like he may have been motivated to show everyone how wrong they had always been about him.

 

[decma]

This SI story from Nov 76 has some great details on the suspension and Larouche in general.

A case of suspended animation

When the Pittsburgh Penguins reinstated Center Pierre Larouche last week following a two-game suspension, they were studiously, even stubbornly, ho-hum about

vault.si.com

And this NYT article from Nov 83 describes some of his off-ice incidents while with Mtl and Hfd, and his new beginning with the NYR.

LAROUCHE, AT LAST, MAY BE SERIOUS (Published 1983)

www.nytimes.com

 

[Davenport]

Might Michel Briere have been better than Pierre Larouche?

 

[alko]

What? Penguins existed before Mario Lemieux?