Post-Game Talk: #73 | Capitals 3 at FLYERS 6 | Sun., Mar. 18, 2018, 5:00 pm ET

[BritainStix]

Man alive, what an emotional game. The flyers make it seriously hard on themselves sometimes. So happy with the win to take us 8 clear of Florida. Fingers crossed teams can start doing us some favours down the stretch and peg them back a little.

 

[pit]

OK OK..."PORK CHOPPER" IT IS. MY MISTAKE. NEVER BEEN GOOD W/PEER PRESSURE...

It's ok. I'm just glad we've cleared this up.

 

[pit]

I am on vacation in Budapest so I couldnt really see the last few games but I saw Oskar scored. Purrrrfect

I really enjoy Budapest. I went there for a week a couple of years ago as part of my honeymoon. Quirky and utterly enjoyable city.

 

[BillDineen]

With the Injury Bug helping get Sanheim up for good, it is time to promote him to Assistant GM.

 

[deadhead]

Wow, look what happens when you ice the best possible line-up. Two wins in a row, week-end sweep, 4 points in less than 24 hours.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

Konecny is a beast. Now watch Lehterä take Raffls spot on the top line.

Somehow I think decent goaltending was a tad more important than replacing Manning with Hagg and Lehtera with Read.

 

[deadhead]

Next year we presumably have Filp, Read and Umberger coming off the books -- that's almost $10M.

The thing is it's probably more likely that Hextall uses that space to take back a bad contract for assets. I'd rather find a goalie and just stuff in more kids with both hands. Give me all of the Frosts, Rubstovs, NAKs, Vorobyevs and Vecchiones and more.

"You can't hurry love . . "

Hextall shouldn't rush guys, someone like Frost has too bright a future to push him in the NHL if he isn't ready.
The "Pimp" also has a bright future, but 80 KHL games as a bottom six guy and one AHL season may not be enough marinating.
MV is meh, what we've had on the 4th line for 6 years now.
Rubtsov needs at least a year in the AHL along with the rest of his draft class and the college kids.
Hart needs a year in the AHL.

Morin and NAK are pretty much locks, Frost and Vorobyev probably camp decisions, MV a 13th forward decision.

The cap room will probably be spent primarily on RFA extensions. Provorov, Konecny won't come cheap.
But I expect Hextall to be a little more aggressive this offseason, and even more in the summer of 2019.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Does Hart need a full year in the AHL?

I’m not so sure.

His performance has been so far beyond his competition that he may be NHL-ready now.

 

[deadhead]

It's a big jump from juniors to the NHL, especially for goal tenders.
Starting him in the AHL, especially if Neuvirth is the backup goalie, won't prevent a promotion.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Does Hart need a full year in the AHL?

I’m not so sure.

His performance has been so far beyond his competition that he may be NHL-ready now.

The youngest goalie in the league is Georgiyev and he's 22 and only up because of injury. And this is his 4th year of pro hockey. This league just isn't very friendly to young goalies. I wouldn't bet on seeing him next year barring goalie injuries on par with this year.

The CHL hasn't produced a lot of goalies lately so it's hard to use comparables but John Gibson might be the closest. He only played 3 NHL games at 20 (but appeared in 4 playoff games). Spent about 25% of his next 2 years in the AHL. Carey Price only played 10 games in the AHL but that was 11 seasons ago. Matt Murray wasn't as good of a prospect but he played the first 1.5 years of his ELC in the AHL before he grabbed the #1 job from Fleury. Mrazek is another one. Split most his 21 and 22 year old seasons between the AHL and NHL.

Hart will get tested for sure in the AHL and his performance will determine if he is ready or not. I doubt he's NHL ready from the jump. CHL is a big jump for skaters. It's probably a bigger jump for goalies. The goalie contracts suggest they are creating a spot for him starting in 2019 though.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The youngest goalie in the league is Georgiyev and he's 22 and only up because of injury. And this is his 4th year of pro hockey. This league just isn't very friendly to young goalies. I wouldn't bet on seeing him next year barring goalie injuries on par with this year.

The CHL hasn't produced a lot of goalies lately so it's hard to use comparables but John Gibson might be the closest. He only played 3 NHL games at 20 (but appeared in 4 playoff games). Spent about 25% of his next 2 years in the AHL. Carey Price only played 10 games in the AHL but that was 11 seasons ago. Matt Murray wasn't as good of a prospect but he played the first 1.5 years of his ELC in the AHL before he grabbed the #1 job from Fleury. Mrazek is another one. Split most his 21 and 22 year old seasons between the AHL and NHL.

Hart will get tested for sure in the AHL and his performance will determine if he is ready or not. I doubt he's NHL ready from the jump. CHL is a big jump for skaters. It's probably a bigger jump for goalies. The goalie contracts suggest they are creating a spot for him starting in 2019 though.

I agree with your general point. Young goalies are indeed a rarity in the NHL now. The question is how special is Hart? The disparity in his performance versus the rest of his league indicates he may be pretty special. There are exceptions to general rules. Vasilevskiy put up a .918 save percentage in 16 NHL games at age 20. If Hart is as special as his performance so far indicates, I'm not sure he'll really need a full season in the AHL. But we'll see how he does, because I find it difficult to believe he won't start there.

 

[kudymen]

I really enjoy Budapest. I went there for a week a couple of years ago as part of my honeymoon. Quirky and utterly enjoyable city.

I agree. I have been there for a prolonged weekend only but I enjoyed it way more than expected. All those stereotypes about Hungary you can hear in the Czech republic must have lowered my expectations haha. Lovely place, plan to come back in the near future

 

[Beef Invictus]

Does Hart need a full year in the AHL?

I’m not so sure.

His performance has been so far beyond his competition that he may be NHL-ready now.

I'm skeptical. It's really rare for goalies to make the jump directly without needing fine-tuning at an intermediate level.

They have to deal with maintaining their angles in a much faster game, get used to reading more complex systems, etc.

 

[pit]

All those stereotypes about Hungary you can hear in the Czech republic must have lowered my expectations haha.

I also have the impression from a friend who toured a show through the country that Hungary outside of Budapest might confirm your stereotypes as much as the people who live in the city might refute it.

 

[Lindberg]

Why did MacDonald lead time on ice last game? He looked awful. This coach is a moron.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'm skeptical. It's really rare for goalies to make the jump directly without needing fine-tuning at an intermediate level.

They have to deal with maintaining their angles in a much faster game, get used to reading more complex systems, etc.

Oh, it's rare. I agree. But, my point is -- how special is Hart? His stats indicate he's pretty special. The regular rules may not apply. Like I said, Vasilevskiy put up a .918 in 16 NHL games at age 20. If Hart could put up a .908 he'd equal Elliott.

I totally anticipate Hart starting with the Phantoms, but if he does well he could take over the Flyers' #1 job as soon as mid-season. Maybe earlier. Let's see him in preseason.

 

[Freddy The Fog]

It's a big jump from juniors to the NHL, especially for goal tenders.
Starting him in the AHL, especially if Neuvirth is the backup goalie, won't prevent a promotion.

Neuvirth needs to go. He's done. I don't care if he stands on his head and stops everything thrown his way to steal a series (and he could do that). Too inconsistent. Too injury prone. And while I appreciate having Mrazek short term -he is not EVER going to win us a Cup or be superior. Very replaceable.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

The Porkchop Express.

Lol

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh, it's rare. I agree. But, my point is -- how special is Hart? His stats indicate he's pretty special. The regular rules may not apply. Like I said, Vasilevskiy put up a .918 in 16 NHL games at age 20. If Hart could put up a .908 he'd equal Elliott.

I totally anticipate Hart starting with the Phantoms, but if he does well he could take over the Flyers' #1 job as soon as mid-season. Maybe earlier. Let's see him in preseason.

Yeah, I'm quite curious myself. I haven't seen him play but his numbers and what's been written indicates he's thoroughly mastered his current level.


I just refuse to get my hopes up because we are the Flyers.


Of note, over the last four decades, until pretty much this year, we were more successful at developing goalies than developing our own Dmen. And we are considered a goalie-eating singularity.

 

[BernieParent]

I'll toss my lot in with those advocating against rushing Hart. Goaltender is the position that can't be rushed, particularly because the goalie can't get 4th-line / bottom-pairing minutes. I'm conceding that the starting duo, barring an outstanding performance by Lyon or Stolarz from now until the 2018-19 season begins, will be Elliott and Neuvirth.

Simple options are few and far between for a goaltender who could give the Flyers 1-2 years of playoff-calibre goaltending and then give way to the best of the prospects.

• Crawford (2 years @ $6 million; age 33) - only if the Hawks blow it up
• Holtby (2 years @ $6.1 million; age 28) - I seriously doubt that, even if the Capitals are moving on from him, they would deal with the Flyers
• Dubnyk (3 years @ $4.3 million; age 31) - see the Hawks
• Howard (1 year @ $5.3 million; age 33) - is he even an improvement over Elliott?
• C. Anderson (2 years @ $4.2 million; age 36) - how much does he have left, particularly after this stinker of a season?
• Bernier (UFA [$2.8 million]; age 29) - 1A at best

It would be a real shame if the Flyers skaters took their game up a couple of notches next season, but got weighed down by mediocrity between the pipes.

Speaking of pipes, my pipe dream would be the following: Stolarz is so great that the Flyers break camp with Elliott / Stolarz, after Neuvirth is traded for ??? Sandstrom gets out of his contract and comes over to play for the Phantoms with Lyon, and Hart starts in the ECHL. No, put down your rocks and bottles. Mid-season, Hart is tearing it up with the Royals, so he gets promoted after Lyon is dealt / sent down, and the Phantoms run with Sandstrom / Hart for the rest of the season. Sandstrom gets spot duty with the Flyers when one of Stolarz or Elliott goes down.

It's ridiculous and puts two rookies into the AHL to back up an aging veteran who gets groin problems after a knock to the head and a barely-out-of-the-original-wrapper goaltender who missed nearly all of 2017-18. I don't care. It's my dream. I want the Swedish Odd Couple on the Flyers!!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They should be better equipped to handle a situation like what has happened this year next year.

You’ll have Lyon & Hart in the minors. I’d imagine Elliott is one of the goalies with the Flyers. Stolarz has to clear waivers to go down to the minors before the season starts. So you’ll likely have to make decision by then on whether him or Neuvirth will be the backup as he might get claimed off waivers. I think Sandstrom stays in Sweden for another year. He’s battled injuries all year & the Flyers seemingly like the way the players develop there in Sweden.

I think that’s basically how things are going to play out.

 

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

• Crawford (2 years @ $6 million; age 33) - only if the Hawks blow it up

• Holtby (2 years @ $6.1 million; age 28) - I seriously doubt that, even if the Capitals are moving on from him, they would deal with the Flyers

me likee.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Of note, over the last four decades, until pretty much this year, we were more successful at developing goalies than developing our own Dmen. And we are considered a goalie-eating singularity.

That is absolutely repugnant. That's more repugnant than the wellspring of darkness from which you procure your disgusting gifs.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

They should be better equipped to handle a situation like what has happened this year next year.

You’ll have Lyon & Hart in the minors. I’d imagine Elliott is one of the goalies with the Flyers. Stolarz has to clear waivers to go down to the minors before the season starts. So you’ll likely have to make decision by then on whether him or Neuvirth will be the backup as he might get claimed off waivers. I think Sandstrom stays in Sweden for another year. He’s battled injuries all year & the Flyers seemingly like the way the players develop there in Sweden.

I think that’s basically how things are going to play out.

I have always kind of had a soft spot for Neuvy, and if I'm being totally honest, it's mostly just because he isn't Steve Mason. But I'm totally ready to launch him into outer space to play shinny with Kristopher LeVandevelde and my poor buddy Lube.

I'd like to see:

Hart getting at least 50% of the starts in LHV
Sandstrom in Sweden until 2019, when he replaces Hart in LHV
Elliott/Stolarz or Elliot/Neuvy (which amounts to the same thing, since Neuvy is always part of the MASH unit) in the NHL
Hart replaces Stolarz/Neuvy in 2019
Sandstrom up after 2 years in LHV (which pains me to say, since I am not known for my patience, and I am wild about Felix)

 

[Beef Invictus]

That is absolutely repugnant. That's more repugnant than the wellspring of darkness from which you procure your disgusting gifs.

Looking at top flight dmen, we only had Watson, up until the modern day Ghost, Provy, and Sanheim (if he pans out, and he should). joined the club. That was all. We got the rest via trade.

For goalies groomed at home who made it, we had Lindbergh, Hextall, Boucher (half/half there), Cechmanek, and Bobrovsky. Our best dmen had all come from outside the organization since the 70s. Making it more generous and including Pitkanen, we had the 2 dmen and several goalies; If you really wanna be generous I suppose you can count Therien too, but the fact remains the same; for all our issues with making a goalie, we sure were worse at making dmen. We were at least good at acquiring outside talent at D, though. Like, really really good at it. Howe/McCrimmon, Desjardins, Timonen (as well as Carle and Coburn), Pronger, all came from outside.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Looking at top flight dmen, we only had Watson, up until the modern day Ghost, Provy, and Sanheim (if he pans out, and he should). joined the club. That was all. We got the rest via trade.

For goalies groomed at home who made it, we had Lindbergh, Hextall, Boucher (half/half there), Cechmanek, and Bobrovsky. Our best dmen had all come from outside the organization since the 70s. Making it more generous and including Pitkanen, we had the 2 dmen and several goalies; If you really wanna be generous I suppose you can count Therien too, but the fact remains the same; for all our issues with making a goalie, we sure were worse at making dmen. We were at least good at acquiring outside talent at D, though. Like, really really good at it. Howe/McCrimmon, Desjardins, Timonen (as well as Carle and Coburn), Pronger, all came from outside.

I know, I totally agree with you and have been watching this train wreck all along - it's just disgusting that it has been that way - when you consider how terrible we have been at bringing goalies through, the fact that we have been even worse at bringing D-men through ... it just makes me sick.