5x5 Program

Rob

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'm wondering how many of you out there are doing the 5x5 strengthlift program? Read about it last year but finally feel comfortable enough to include it in my workout.

Do you do 5x5 for compound exercises only or do you ever do them for isolation exercises as well? I've seen on youtube where some guys will do it for bicep curls and tricep extensions. I would be a little nervous going too heavy on an isolation set.

If you don't mind please enter your routine as well.
 

wingsnut19

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
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I'm wondering how many of you out there are doing the 5x5 strengthlift program? Read about it last year but finally feel comfortable enough to include it in my workout.

Do you do 5x5 for compound exercises only or do you ever do them for isolation exercises as well? I've seen on youtube where some guys will do it for bicep curls and tricep extensions. I would be a little nervous going too heavy on an isolation set.

If you don't mind please enter your routine as well.
5x5 with linear progression is a good beginner program. I did it for 3 months with added accessories. I'd suggest adding at least a couple accessory lifts per muscle group per workout. For the accessory work, do 3x8-12 or 4x8-12. If you can't do at least 8 for each set, it is too heavy. Once you exceed 12 on your last set, up the weight. If you're looking at Stronglifts, you're probably getting plenty of leg work that you can focus on upper body accessories. I'd suggest that doing 3x5 instead of 1x5 on deadlifts would be better for progression, but that is based on personal experience. Once you're past the point where you can make linear progression, make sure you find a good intermediate program.

For numbers, in 3 months I went from a 95/135/85 lb(S/D/B) to 200/265/135 with Stronglifts. You can see my bench progress was kinda shit.

For me, I'll be going back into programming with 5/3/1 Boring But Big with a 5x5 first set last. It's a simple program and should work well for a beginner as well if you're interested in looking at anything else. Here is a good summary: Boring But Big

You can find a good app for your phone to track progress with that program as well.
 

Havre

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
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5x5 with linear progression is a good beginner program. I did it for 3 months with added accessories. I'd suggest adding at least a couple accessory lifts per muscle group per workout. For the accessory work, do 3x8-12 or 4x8-12. If you can't do at least 8 for each set, it is too heavy. Once you exceed 12 on your last set, up the weight. If you're looking at Stronglifts, you're probably getting plenty of leg work that you can focus on upper body accessories. I'd suggest that doing 3x5 instead of 1x5 on deadlifts would be better for progression, but that is based on personal experience. Once you're past the point where you can make linear progression, make sure you find a good intermediate program.

The first one is quite questionable. It seems to be highly individual how muscles respond to both reps and frequency, but I have never seen any science saying you got to do at least 8. I know PTs etc. like to say somewhere between 8 and 12, but I think that has more to do with the risk of injury than anything else (I don't know though). If someone inexperienced try to lift close to their max there is probably a higher risk of serious injury doing squats, deadlifts etc. Person A might very well respond well to 8-12. I have over almost 20 years of lifting weights found I respond better to lower number of reps - even as low as sets with 2-3. Then it depends on what frequency I am on - I would not do squats 4 times a week doing close to my absolute max with 2-3 reps.

Do agree with you on the second one. I believe in higher number of sets with a high frequency (and lower number of reps for strength).

What I like with 5x5 is that you do get more sets and lower reps than what most people usually do.

To answer the OP. There is nothing scary about 5x5. But you got to test it out systematically to see how you react. Impossible for anyone in general terms to say online if it fits you or not. And a muscle is a muscle so compound or isolation shouldn't matter. People tend to like getting their biceps etc. pumped - so higher number of reps would make sense. In terms of getting stronger there is no difference.
 

wingsnut19

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Apr 9, 2007
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The first one is quite questionable. It seems to be highly individual how muscles respond to both reps and frequency, but I have never seen any science saying you got to do at least 8. I know PTs etc. like to say somewhere between 8 and 12, but I think that has more to do with the risk of injury than anything else (I don't know though). If someone inexperienced try to lift close to their max there is probably a higher risk of serious injury doing squats, deadlifts etc. Person A might very well respond well to 8-12. I have over almost 20 years of lifting weights found I respond better to lower number of reps - even as low as sets with 2-3. Then it depends on what frequency I am on - I would not do squats 4 times a week doing close to my absolute max with 2-3 reps.

Do agree with you on the second one. I believe in higher number of sets with a high frequency (and lower number of reps for strength).

What I like with 5x5 is that you do get more sets and lower reps than what most people usually do.

To answer the OP. There is nothing scary about 5x5. But you got to test it out systematically to see how you react. Impossible for anyone in general terms to say online if it fits you or not. And a muscle is a muscle so compound or isolation shouldn't matter. People tend to like getting their biceps etc. pumped - so higher number of reps would make sense. In terms of getting stronger there is no difference.
I was referring to accessory/ isolation work. It is fairly general advice to give people that 8-12 is the preferred rep range for hypertrophy, but you're right, everyone responds differently. There is plenty of science out there discussing the benefits that higher reps have for hypertrophy. So saying at least 8 is just giving a guideline, since that is often what beginners need and seemed to be what OP was asking for. For compound movements I almost never exceed 8 reps (prefer 3-5) except on light AMRAP sets, since I've been mostly focused on strength.
 

Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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If size is the primary motivation I agree. I have never primarily lifted to become big myself so I have far less experience with that then for strength, but more reps seems to be the way to go. Several of the biggest guys, not the strongest, at my gym will often do sets with far more reps than 12. That requires some experience though as you still need to have enough weight on for the first reps to really count.
 

wingsnut19

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Apr 9, 2007
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Yeah, its a preference thing. I use accessory work for hypertrophy as a supplement to my compound lifts that I mostly do for strength. I like a more hybrid program, has treated me well.
 

wingsnut19

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Apr 9, 2007
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So Deadlifts are just 1x5 for everyone?
I'd suggest 1x5 is way too little volume, but pay attention to your body. I think at least 3x5 with a proper warm up would be better. Honestly, I did best with deadlifts when I was running a program that included 9 sets of deadlifts, and it also had squats on the same day, so I don't know why Stronglifts and some other beginner programs make it seem like deadlifts are so draining.
 

Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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Should definitely have more volume than just one set. Done quite a lot of research on frequency and volume. The old school low volume heavy lifts with up to a week rest for that muscle group is completely outdated if you want to gain strength. You would be much better off doing deadlifts 5 times a week, but never going to failure.

That is one of the reasons why I believe 5x5 works. It forces people to do more sets than they might have planned. And it is heavy enough for every rep to count. 1x5 would be completely different. Especially if you are inexperienced.

There is no one answer though. It is all about being systematic if you want to achieve things. Are you still improving? Are you staying motivated? Are you staying injury free?

If you got three yeses you are on the right track. But until you have tried it for some time you wouldn’t really know.
 
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Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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Should probably point out I haven´t done the research - but others have. Written on my phone :laugh:
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
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I'd do 5x5 for the compound lifts but for the so-called isolation/accessory exercises I'd do more reps, and possibly less sets. I don't see the advantage of doing like, 5x5 for bicep curls or something. You'd probably save time, and see better results, just doing 3 sets of 10 or something. The minimum number of reps for hypertrophy is 6 or in some studies / opinions 8.

I ran a modified (4x6 instead of 5x5) program for back squat, front squat, conventional deadlift and overhead press with good results for about 6 months.

If you're starting from scratch on the deadlift (like 135 lbs.) and you're a normal adult male you can probably get away with doing 5x5 early, and just chip away at the number of reps and sets as you add weight to the bar. That way you're practicing the technique early on when the weight is easy. 1x5 just isn't enough to build the motor pattern and ingrain proper technique.
 

CanadianPensFan1

Registered User
Jun 13, 2014
7,051
2,049
Canada
Hey gang,

Been awhile. I stopped going to the gym about 5 months ago. Life has the tendency to get in the way. Anywho, just started back this week and decided I was gonna do a 5x5. The one from the 2nd post actually.

Its been fun so far. Due to the layoff, I'm starting below my "max" so I can get my body used to it again. I'll move up slowly so I dont die :P

But yeah ... think it'll be fun.
 

TheTechNoir

fall 2021 bull, probably
Feb 18, 2013
4,647
1,781
Done quite a lot of research on frequency and volume. The old school low volume heavy lifts with up to a week rest for that muscle group is completely outdated if you want to gain strength.

Not necesissarily outdated. But. For a drug free lifter? Yeah. Very poor. Bit then, isn't almost every thing a professional athlete in the various lifting related disciplines shares as his routine? Never a good idea to grab a magazine and see a 320 lb 10% bodybuilders' (using tren, anadrol, 5+ grams of test e a week, GH, IGF-1, the list goes on lol) routine. If anything, imo, what is outdated is many people interpreting professional lifters as being appropriate to emulate.

PS: I am not explicitly stating that doing that for some one who DOES use lots of drugs is the best way to go either. There are plenty of dudes using and doing German Volume Training or Bulgarian. Just saying; it has a place. Just no where close to naturals.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
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Very happy with my results so far a little over 2 months in (minus a little break around christmas).

Hit PB's in every exercise so far, though I did not do all of them before starting the program.
 

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
8,562
273
Vancouver, BC
Very happy with my results so far a little over 2 months in (minus a little break around christmas).

Hit PB's in every exercise so far, though I did not do all of them before starting the program.

How do you like doing the heavy rows? Going to switch to the 5x5 from 5/3/1 where rows are just an assistance lift.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
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How do you like doing the heavy rows? Going to switch to the 5x5 from 5/3/1 where rows are just an assistance lift.
Not too bad. They are a little awkward though until you can do a plate, because you are supposed to do them right off the ground for each rep. So it's a little annoying having to stack a couple plates on either side to lift off of because the biggest weight on the bar is 25 lbs.
 

Samuel Culper III

Mr. Woodhull...
Jan 15, 2007
13,144
1,099
Texas
Not necesissarily outdated. But. For a drug free lifter? Yeah. Very poor. Bit then, isn't almost every thing a professional athlete in the various lifting related disciplines shares as his routine? Never a good idea to grab a magazine and see a 320 lb 10% bodybuilders' (using tren, anadrol, 5+ grams of test e a week, GH, IGF-1, the list goes on lol) routine. If anything, imo, what is outdated is many people interpreting professional lifters as being appropriate to emulate.

PS: I am not explicitly stating that doing that for some one who DOES use lots of drugs is the best way to go either. There are plenty of dudes using and doing German Volume Training or Bulgarian. Just saying; it has a place. Just no where close to naturals.

I’m currently using the Bulgarian method to pretty excellent results. I started as an advanced or at least very intermediate lifter who had plateaued over the past 18 months and since starting Bulgarian I’ve made progress on every big lift. After the initial shock, squatting every day is actually the most satisfying thing I’ve ever done. I mean, I’m a glutton for punishment and legs have always been a strong point, but I enjoy it. The benching, not so much. My bench and overhead press have always been my weakest lifts. They’re respectable but way out of proportion with my squat, dead, row, etc.
 

CanadianPensFan1

Registered User
Jun 13, 2014
7,051
2,049
Canada
So. If you go back over my posts, gains have been few and far between in the past 2 years. A lot of that is due to not having a strict gym schedule. But part was, I think, I wasn't working out properly.

I decided to try a 5x5. With some accessory lifts to supplement a bit.

It must have worked cause I FINALLY hit my 3/2/1 plate on deadlift, squat, bench. Wooo.

While it's not much, that's HUGE for me. Considering that, when I started, I could only bench the bar for 6 reps .. 135 seems .. insane.

Anywho .. anecdotal stories n all. But still. Yay me
 
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Filthy Dangles

Registered User*
Oct 23, 2014
28,356
39,703
Quick 5x5 question.

How much does that weight differ between sets? My first set is the lightest while my next four are at the same weight.

Unless I'm mistaken, tradititonal 5x5 routines such as StrongLifts and Starting Strength don't modify the weight being used per set. i.e no progressive overload or deloading or anything. The weight stays the same during each set but increases every workout.

5x5 is usually a beginner-intermediate thing and you will eventually plateau on it if strength is your main goal and it won't work for you anymore at that point.
 

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