5 Players that Transcended the Sport

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Ogopogo*, Jul 12, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    In my estimation, there are 5 players that completely dominated the game, changed the game and left an undeniable stamp on the National Hockey League. These are players that accomplished things that no player had ever done before and set new standards for playing the game. This is not a list of the 5 greatest players necessarily it is just a summary of 5 players that transcended the game.


    Eddie Shore dominated the NHL in the late 20s and early 30s. From the defense position, he won 4 Hart Trophies! Yes, that is one more than Bobby Orr. If they gave out the Norris Trophy when Shore played, he would have captured 9 of them.

    Gordie Howe won six scoring titles and twice won by more than 25% over his nearest competitor. He was a 21 time all star and 6 time MVP. Howe was more amazing than most people give him credit for and his legend was built not on longevity alone but being excellent for a long time.

    Bobby Orr set an incredible standard for defensemen that may never be matched. He not only dominated the Norris trophy by winning it in 8 of his 9 NHL seasons but, he completely revolutionized the offensive defenseman. He is the only d man to ever win a scoring title and, he added 3 Hart Trophies and 2 Conn Smythes to his resume.

    Wayne Gretzky was winning scoring titles by such a wide margin that his dominance will likely never be touched. Gretzky won the 1986-87 title by an amazing 69% and he won 4 other scoring titles by at least 50%! 9 Hart Trophies doesn't hurt the Great One's resume either.

    Dominik Hasek dominated goaltending in the 90s. Hasek won an amazing 6 Vezina Trophies. Only Glenn Hall has been voted the league's best goaltender more often with his 7 1st Team all star selections. (In those days, the Vezina was awarded like the Jennings is today) Even more impressive, Hasek won 2 Hart Trophies as MVP, no other goalie has ever done that. As well, Hasek finished in the top 3 in Hart voting on three other occasions.


    There have been many other greats but, these 5 completely dominated and rose above everyone else during their era. They accomplished things that nobody had accomplished before and they cemented a legendary imprint on the National Hockey League.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2005
  2. waffledave

    waffledave waffledave, from hf

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    26,174
    Likes Received:
    2,063
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Montreal
    Rocket Richard should be there. He was the first person to score 50 goals in 50 games, and he created an entire culture in Quebec.
     
  3. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    You do have a good point. Perhaps the Rocket should be included.
     
  4. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    When I hear a term like "transcended," I think of a guy who was so good, so influential that his popularity went well beyond the game and he became a part of mainstream culture. IMO, nobody in the history of the game has transcended the sport like Maurice Richard. His popularity in Montreal in the 40s and 50s is iconic, likely beyond the popularity that any NHL player has ever enjoyed in a city. Many Canadian historians point to his suspension in the 1950s and the ensuing "Richard Riots" as the unofficial starting point of the Quiet Revolution in Quebec and the separatism movement.

    He was also the first player to score 50 goals in 50 games, is arguably the greatest goal scorer in the history of the game, inspired the classic video "The Sweater" (who else has seen it in French and English), and his name is on the NHL's top goal scorer trophy. Anyone else get goose bumps from that seemingly endless ovation for the Rocket during the final game at the Montreal Forum.

    Regardless of definition, though, I think Richard is one of the five greatest all-round players ever in the game, and a player who truly transcended and revolutionized the game.
     
  5. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Yes, perhaps Richard should be included on the list. I do have him as the #3 goal scorer of all time behind #1 Gordie Howe and #2 Bobby Hull.
     
  6. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Location:
    Toronto
    I think he transcended the game more as an icon than a player. Don't get me wrong, he was one of the best scorers ever, but like Ogo just alluded to, his on-ice skills were probably in the same league as guys like Hull, Esposito, etc. To transcend the game as a player I think you'd have to be completely in a league of your own in terms of dominance (Gretzky, Orr, etc), and I don't think Richard was that. The fact that he only won the Hart once leads me to this conclusion
     
  7. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Excellent point.
     
  8. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think Corrado Micalef certainly qualifies.

    Let's be honest, the only guy that transcended the sport was Gretzky. Nobody who isn't a fan of hockey knows who the hell Eddie Shore or Dominik Hasek are. If you're talking about guys who are talked about in hushed, reverent tones than you need to add Richard and Howie Morenz. It's too early for Hasek, but award totals notwithstanding, he wouldn't achieve a consensus as the greatest goaltender of all-time, or even his own time.
     
  9. crump

    crump ~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    8,879
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Location:
    Ontariariario
    You never saw Orr play?

    If any one player changed the game it was he...Gretzky blew away every record and was possibly the games best player ever, but before Orr he wouldn't have existed.
     
  10. chooch*

    chooch* Guest


    Youre talking to guys who open up the Hockey Register and write the word transcend for the first time. Look at the ridiculous vascillating over Rocket Richard. Ogombongo knocks his performance - hows 10 cups grab ya, buddy?

    Did the Rocket need a bodyguard on the ice? (answer that)

    The Rocket wasnt a defensive liability for the last 12 years of his career hanging out at centre collecting assists for a last place team and the Rocket would have punched out a teammate who did try to collect cheap points (in Gretzky's case, the Rocket would have simply had to blow hard to do so).

    Whats more Mario was a better offensive player in the same generation as 99. He just didnt go around selling himself like detergent.

    btw your hero didnt even win the Art Ross in 87-88 much less win it by 69%. And his team dumped him that summer for Jimmy Carson and then won the Cup the next year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2005
  11. Quiet Robert

    Quiet Robert Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Another great post chooch. Great of you to turn yet another thread into a Gretzky bash.

    Keep hijaking threads buddy, I know I'm not sick of it.
     
  12. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,222
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    101

    What about Benoit Brunet? Haha.
     
  13. chooch*

    chooch* Guest

    Not up for debate are you? Well, all right here's my own very important not be missed list of players who "transcended the sport":

    Orr, Richard, Beliveau, Howe, Buchberger

    give me a medal.

    actually my list is just another excuse to write the name Orr at the top of a list. And if anyone disagrees, theyre hijacking it.
     
  14. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Chooch, you obvious lack of hockey understanding and overwhelming bias towards Quebecois really renders your arguments weak and irrelevant. In short, you don't know what you are talking about.

    How exactly do you back your comment that Mario was better offensively? Show me one shred of evidence that could even make a weak case for that.

    There is one thing that you know how to do; Hijack a thread with mindless comments. Good work. You are a true champion. :handclap:
     
  15. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Location:
    Toronto
    lol

    Chooch, I think you've actually gone insane with bitterness

    Seriously, who cares if Gretzky had a bodyguard? The man scored 1000 points before his 23rd birthday, you would be stupid not to protect him. Lemieux took a beating in his early years, and look what happened to him. Gretzky leads the all-time scoring race by nearly 1000 points. I don't care if he scored every single one of his goals into an empty net while Dave Semenko was pummelling the goalie in the corner for looking at him funny.

    Fact is, he obliterated every notable offensive statistic, and is the most recognizable name in hockey on the planet. Like him or not, that qualifies him to be right at the top of this list with Bobby Orr
     
  16. Bring Back Bucky

    Bring Back Bucky Registered User

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Occupation:
    Hamster Trainer
    Location:
    Delicieux!
    Guys, it really and truly is time to stop responding to this foolishness. The monsters under the bed will go away if you don't believe in them. Stop believing in the troll, there's no need to reply to this garbage..
     
  17. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    LOL.

    Yes, I suppose you are correct. I will try to abstain.
     
  18. ClassicHockey

    ClassicHockey Registered User

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My view is that Richard was definitely a dominant player in his prime. In fact, I think that he was more in a 'league of his own' that Gordie Howe was. Richard attracted more attention from opponents than Howe did. If you are talking playoff performance between Richard and Howe, then Richard gets the not there. Richard had many overtime winning goals where I don't think Howe got any. Richard seemed to be able to bring his play up a notch in an important game more than Howe did. Richard actually scored a winning goal seemingly semi-conscious which is a remarkable achievment. Has anyone seen the famous photo of Richard with black eyes and blood streaming down his face shaking hands with Sugar Jim Henry of Boston in 1952?

    Howe was much more consistent but not the clutch player that Richard was.

    Richard may have only officially won the Hart Trophy once but players of that time will tell you that he was more feared as a player than Howe was.

    Also, I don't know what Howe did to 'transcend' or change the game. He was a great player but what did he 'revolutionize'?



     
  19. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Howe was a post-season all star 21 times. If that isn't amazing, I don't know what is. He was one of the best players in the league for 21 years, nobody in any sport anywhere has ever touched that mark. That transcends the game. It is something that probably no player will ever do again. It is so amazing that 100 years from now, people will still talk about it.
     
  20. KOVALEV10*

    KOVALEV10* Guest

    Sorry but there's no way Gordie Howe is better goal scorer then Rocket. Better player? arguably. Better all around player? Definately. Better Playmaker? Hell yeah! Better goal scorer? Ugh.. no way.
     
  21. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Well, let's see...

    Howe was a top 7 goal scorer 18 times in his career. Richard was a top 7 13 times.

    Howe won 5 goal scoring crowns. Richard won 4 and tied for a 5th.

    Howe won 2 of his goal scoring titles by more than 50% and a third by more than 25%. Richard won 2 goal scoring titles by more than 50%.

    Howe finished 2nd in goal scoring 3 times. Richard finished 2nd once and tied for 2nd on two other occasions.


    It was very close but, I would have to say Howe by a nose.
     
  22. KOVALEV10*

    KOVALEV10* Guest


    Well despite the fact that most people consider Richard top 2 in goal scoring ever and definately better then Howe you want to get stats into play. Hey Gordie's got the longevity but longevity doesn't make someone better. You want to go by stats then let's go.

    Rocket Richard:

    Regular Season:

    Rocket Richard: 544 Goals in 978 Games
    Gordie Howe- 801 Goals in 1767 Games

    Goals per game averages:
    Rocket Richard- 0.56
    Gordie Howe- 0.45

    Playoffs:
    Rocket Richard: 82 goals in 133 games
    Gordie Howe- 68 Goals in 157 games

    Goals per game averages:
    Rocket Richard- 0.62
    Gordie Howe- 0.43

    So let's see.. Rocket is definately better. Yeah he scored more regular season goals but that's more because of longevity. If we look at the goals per game averages for regular season Rocket was better. Playoffs Howe wasn't even close. Rocket raised his game in the playoffs more then anyone in his era and was an unstopable force. He has 14 more goals in 24 less games. He lead his team to at least 6 of his 10 cups. His goals per game average is 0.62 compared to Howe's 0.43. He scored 6 overtime playoff goals. Was the first person to score 50 in 50 and that record stood for 35 years until Bossy broke it in a much more offensive era.

    I dont see how Howe was better and I'm sure most people here would agree.
     
  23. Bring Back Bucky

    Bring Back Bucky Registered User

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Occupation:
    Hamster Trainer
    Location:
    Delicieux!
    Your posts would be more credible if you used facts rather than Chooch's numbers to make your arguments. Richard was on 8 cup winners, not ten.

    Bossy didn't break Richard's record, he matched it. Wayne Gretzky destroyed it.
     
  24. KOVALEV10*

    KOVALEV10* Guest

    Oh and by the way Howe has even said that Rocket was the best goal scorer ever and that he sort of paved the way for Howe. Ted Lindsay who was Gordie's linemate for many years has even said that Rocket was the best goal scorer ever. Not to mention thousands of hockey historians agree.
     
  25. KOVALEV10*

    KOVALEV10* Guest

    Sorry mr. perfect you're right he was on 8 cup winning teams. I'm sorry I dont have a love for stats like you seem to have.

    Who's talking about Wayne Gretzky here? We're talking about Howe and Rocket. Dont start with Wayne again.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"