Prospect Info: #43OA - C/LW Janne Kuokkanen - Karpat, FIN (traded to NJ)

[sheriff bart]

I would have to think that he consulted with the Canes on what would be the best for his development.

 

[MinJaBen]

I would have to think that he consulted with the Canes on what would be the best for his development.

Maybe, but if he did it was most likely initiated by the player. Ron Francis was asked about European player development in one of the press conferences surrounding the draft and he said they stay out of telling them what to do.

 

[sheriff bart]

Maybe, but if he did it was most likely initiated by the player. Ron Francis was asked about European player development in one of the press conferences surrounding the draft and he said they stay out of telling them what to do.

Didn't I say "he consulted"? If his ultimate goal is to play in the NHL, I can't believe that he wouldn't be working with the NHL club that drafted him. At least running the idea up the flag pole and see who salutes.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't know about it anymore, the team and the situation is looking very different for next year.
Marjamaki is gone, Aho is gone, Nutivaara is gone, Pulju most likely gone.

I don't think it's a bad move to bring him to London, to elite developing team to show what it takes to make it in the NHL.

It's junior hockey. He's already playing pro in a good pro league against men. London is a great team but it's still junior hockey. I don't believe it prepares him any more than any good junior team does and while playing on a winning team is a nice side benefit the overall quality of play and competition is more important to me. I get how some would think the ahl is competitive with the euro leagues and maybe prepares a euro for the NHL grind, when we start thinking the junior leagues are better....

Of course he talked to the canes about it. Of course the canes want him in North America. They have more influence here and they want him to acclimatize his life and game. I think it's more important to keep the European influence in his game a little longer against men. It's not that hard to learn to chip the puck in and back check more. It's harder to learn how to bring skill into the NHL, and I think that's what he gets there. From his teammates, from his opponents, just the style of play.

Not to mention with the changes on his Finnish team it sounds like he'd play a top role on his team there. I just don't see how being a key player for a junior team is better for development than playing a top role for a pro league that's one of the better ones in the world.

 

[sheriff bart]

There has to be some reason. I would have to think he's leaving money on the table by going from a pro league to juniors.

 

[geehaad]

I realize "leaving money on the table" might just be a turn of phrase, but I have a sincere question: do CHL players get paid, and if so, what would someone like Janne be paid?

 

[GoldiFox]

I realize "leaving money on the table" might just be a turn of phrase, but I have a sincere question: do CHL players get paid, and if so, what would someone like Janne be paid?

FEL players get paid like any pro league. I think Auston Matthews made over $500k playing for Zurich last year (NLA, but similar for reference). CHL players are considered closer to amateurs. They get a stipend, but it is very low. Less than $10k a year IIRC (edit: $470 a month http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ohl-up...ges-to-player-benefit-packages-223242217.html).

So yes, I do believe he is losing anywhere from tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars by playing in the CHL for the next 1-3 years.

I think Marjamaki leaving probably made the decision easy. Karpat will be a very different team next year than the one that groomed Donskoi, Aho, and Puljujarvi.

 

[sheriff bart]

I realize "leaving money on the table" might just be a turn of phrase, but I have a sincere question: do CHL players get paid, and if so, what would someone like Janne be paid?

CHL players get paid a stipend, but it isn't a lot. Finding out exactly what they get is not easy. The owners guard that information like the Colonel guards his secret 11 herbs and spices recipe.

 

[geehaad]

Hmm. Next stop: CHL players union

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't know about it anymore, the team and the situation is looking very different for next year.
Marjamaki is gone, Aho is gone, Nutivaara is gone, Pulju most likely gone.

I don't think it's a bad move to bring him to London, to elite developing team to show what it takes to make it in the NHL.

It's junior hockey. He's already playing pro in a good pro league against men. London is a great team but it's still junior hockey. I don't believe it prepares them any more than any good junior team does and while playing on a winking team is a nice side benefit the overall quality of play and competition is more important to me. I get how some would think the ahl is competitive with the euro leagues and maybe prepares a euro for the NHL grind, when we start thinking the junior leagues are better....

Of course he talked to the canes about it. Of course the canes want him in North America. They have more influence here and they want him to acclimatize his life and game. I think it's more important to keep the European influence in his game a little longer against men. It's not that hard to learn to chip he puck in and back check more. It's harder to learn how to bring skill into the NHL, and I think that's what he gets there. From his teammates, from his opponents, just the style of play.

 

[Moosetache]

Only reason I like guys coming to NA before they get to the NHL is the ice size difference.

That being said I am kind of torn as to what I think is better. I'd say its a player by player decision as to what is better for them.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Regarding pay in the chl, there is a lot of under the table deals for star players. Portland got caught a few years back and penalized pretty heavily. London hasn't been caught but has been long suspected given some of the big names they've been able to lure from the college ranks.

 

[Vagrant]

Regarding pay in the chl, there is a lot of under the table deals for star players. Portland got caught a few years back and penalized pretty heavily. London hasn't been caught but has been long suspected given some of the big names they've been able to lure from the college ranks.

This. Portland was just as bad for a while. They pulled in some *immense* talent. Especially through the import draft. When guys start leaving money on the table to fly across the Atlantic to take a step down in competition and salary, you know something isn't quite adding up.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

It's junior hockey. He's already playing pro in a good pro league against men.

He's played 1 game in the men's league

 

[CandyCanes]

It is an interesting decision to see Kuokkanen leave Finland. Karpat obviously is going to be a differnt team this season, but the way Aho progressed with them last year you would think Kuokkanen could play there and hope for similar development as him.

London has some incredible alumni in the last 10 years like Rick Nash, Patrick Kane, John Tavares, and Corey Perry but they were all first round draft picks.

Their development of 2nd rounders isn't all that great. The only notable names of 2nd rounders from the last 10 years that have come out London are Dave Bolland & Chris Tierany. (Potentially Christian Dvorak & Scott Harrington) And alot of 2nd round flops mixed in.

Don't know if it's the right move or not, but hope it works out! Added note: Will be interesting to watch him play with either Tkachuk or Jones.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

He's played 1 game in the men's league

Technically he has played two games in the men's league, however the other one was in the second-highest league. He had nice stats in his two first games against men; two goals in highest league (Liiga) and a goal and an assist in the second-highest (Mestis).

 

[bleedgreen]

He's played 1 game in the men's league

Seemed like he was in place to play a role with the big boys THIS season. If that's not the case then I'm ok with the CHL.

 

[DaveG]

Regarding pay in the chl, there is a lot of under the table deals for star players. Portland got caught a few years back and penalized pretty heavily. London hasn't been caught but has been long suspected given some of the big names they've been able to lure from the college ranks.

Portland, London, Quebec (under Roy), Kitchener all had this rumor around them, Portland is just the only one to get caught iirc

Who was the team Coyle jumped to? I remember that being pretty suspect as well

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

they all pay their players, some just more than others

 

[Periwinkle]

FEL players get paid like any pro league. I think Auston Matthews made over $500k playing for Zurich last year (NLA, but similar for reference). CHL players are considered closer to amateurs. They get a stipend, but it is very low. Less than $10k a year IIRC (edit: $470 a month http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ohl-up...ges-to-player-benefit-packages-223242217.html).

So yes, I do believe he is losing anywhere from tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars by playing in the CHL for the next 1-3 years.

I think Marjamaki leaving probably made the decision easy. Karpat will be a very different team next year than the one that groomed Donskoi, Aho, and Puljujarvi.

NLA wages are higher than FEL. I found a source saying average wage in FEL is 80 000€, median wage 60 000€. I think highest earners make about 300 000€. I can't image a junior of his statute making more than a few k's.

Moving to NA junior hockey is probably a move to help make NHL sooner. Once you sign that ELC, it pays off.

 

[myrsky]

NLA wages are higher than FEL. I found a source saying average wage in FEL is 80 000€, median wage 60 000€. I think highest earners make about 300 000€. I can't image a junior of his statute making more than a few k's.

Moving to NA junior hockey is probably a move to help make NHL sooner. Once you sign that ELC, it pays off.

400 000€ (440 000$) seems to be the absolute maximum FEL teams are able to pay for a single player.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Portland, London, Quebec (under Roy), Kitchener all had this rumor around them, Portland is just the only one to get caught iirc

Who was the team Coyle jumped to? I remember that being pretty suspect add well

It was saint johns. That was a surprising one.

Pretty sure Portland have been the only ones fined. Quite the penalty they got hit with. Their gm/coach was suspended, they were fined $200,000 and stripped of 5 first round picks plus 4 more picks from rounds 2-5.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

Windsor was fined and lost draft picks too, but I don't think it was ever revealed as much as Portland's. It was just called "violation of the League’s Player Benefit and Recruitment Rules and Policies"

people have speculated who it was for, I think most people assume it was Austin Watson and Cam Fowler

 

[Stickpucker]

CHL players get paid a stipend, but it isn't a lot. Finding out exactly what they get is not easy. The owners guard that information like the Colonel guards his secret 11 herbs and spices recipe.

Mmm herbs and spices.

 

[Gsus]

How did he look at the camp?