Post-Game Talk: 3pm Blues @ Caps

[Sam Spade]

Damn it, Kucherov scored.

 

[Sam Spade]

I know we need 18 guys. So we can't just say that we a particular guy to score. If that is the case we won't win a cup. We need all 18 guys to buy into the system and play a complete game.

They also need favorable calls, bounces, and just general good luck.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They also need favorable calls, bounces, and just general good luck.

Favorable matchups don’t hurt either.

 

[Sam Spade]

Favorable matchups don’t hurt either.

Lol, I was gonna type that, but it just seemed like asking for too much.

 

[g00n]

I know we need 18 guys. So we can't just say that we a particular guy to score. If that is the case we won't win a cup. We need all 18 guys to buy into the system and play a complete game.

How do you know whether or not Ovechkin is buying into the system? He's bought into every system every coach has installed.

You pivoted from facts about Ovechkin's production and effort to this notion that everyone has to play the same style or role to win. That's 100% not true. Not today and not 50 years ago. Do your own job well. Play your role. Otherwise what are we talking about here? Making every good shooter into a grinder? Every offensive d-man into a stay at home? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right?

Not everyone can be an evenly balanced 2-way player, nor do they need to be. The guys who are more defensive can't shift the other way very easily. So the offensive side of the game is more rare. You need guys like that looking for chances to score in a game where you might average a single shot per minute and it may not even be a good scoring chance. Their job is to be playing defense as needed WHILE looking for opportunities to go the other way. That is how today's game is played.

But if you want a grinding, plodding team then you'd better start writing letters to GMBM because this roster is not built for that on a day to day basis, top to bottom.

 

[hockeykicker]

fwiw, since the caps got spanked by Nashville and colorado back to back, the caps are 16-4-2 in the next 22 games

 

[SherVaughn30]

fwiw, since the caps got spanked by Nashville and colorado back to back, the caps are 16-4-2 in the next 22 games

Caps could go undefeated for the rest of the season and it will still not matter based on this teams playoff history. Just about every time they make the playoffs, something goes wrong. If they find a way to put it all together once the playoffs start, work hard, good coaching, good goaltending, clutch scoring, sacrifice and do whatever it takes, in a strong playoff run, then I will be very positive.

 

[txpd]

just read the last two pages. they did win the game.or am I wrong?

 

[HTFN]

Because you know I'm right.

No, but I'm betting the truth is still nestled somewhere in this post.

You already "know" you're right, and it's why discussions started with you appear to be dying at the threshold. Half the time you're arguing a grey middle, or railing against both stances depending on who you're responding to and what kind of damage they've done to your prior assertions.

It's a tiresome, thankless proposition, and people will refuse to play that game before long.

edit: I have a hard time seeing where Stephenson pans out here without taking a risk on roster construction. Making good use of two 3C's and their cap hits going forward would either require some creative lines or finances, and I don't see the point or promise in either. If you have to gamble one way or the other, I think you probably err towards losing Eller and his cap hit, and hope that if things don't pan out you can either make do internally, or make a deadline buy when the time comes.

If it's a coin flip, of course. I just think you lean towards the side that offers flexibility as a "pro".

 

[ovikovy817]

Damn it, Kucherov scored.

Just before the goal, a bad icing call by the refs, wings can't change, stamkos wins the faceoff and Kucherov scores.

 

[maacoshark]

How do you know whether or not Ovechkin is buying into the system? He's bought into every system every coach has installed.

You pivoted from facts about Ovechkin's production and effort to this notion that everyone has to play the same style or role to win. That's 100% not true. Not today and not 50 years ago. Do your own job well. Play your role. Otherwise what are we talking about here? Making every good shooter into a grinder? Every offensive d-man into a stay at home? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right?

Not everyone can be an evenly balanced 2-way player, nor do they need to be. The guys who are more defensive can't shift the other way very easily. So the offensive side of the game is more rare. You need guys like that looking for chances to score in a game where you might average a single shot per minute and it may not even be a good scoring chance. Their job is to be playing defense as needed WHILE looking for opportunities to go the other way. That is how today's game is played.

But if you want a grinding, plodding team then you'd better start writing letters to GMBM because this roster is not built for that on a day to day basis, top to bottom.

Watch him play. He still glide around too much. We all know Trotz doesn't like that.

 

[maacoshark]

Damn it, Kucherov scored.

Kucherov is on a roll the past couple years. He is an excellent player. There are a lot of very high skilled players in this league right now.

 

[txpd]

Watch him play. He still glide around too much. We all know Trotz doesn't like that.

Lets be honest. Trotz has shown the reason why he has so many wins and has such longevity as a head coach. Under Boudreau the team emotionally collapsed after losing to Montreal. They became erratic. Under Trotz after that same failure, the team has improved. You would have to consider that after the roster damage done this off season that they have yet again improved. I think at that level he is special.

His problem is that he just can not manage the increasing pile of choke the team has produced and how that effects his group come playoffs. In my view the playoff problems are entirely mental. As good as Trotz has been at the mental rebuild required by each playoff failure come the next regular season, he seems lost at the same work come playoffs.

Meanwhile. Anyone else thinking that this three goals per game Holtby is giving up is resulting as much from Korn being gone than the rookies on defense?

 

[Corby78]

Lets be honest. Trotz has shown the reason why he has so many wins and has such longevity as a head coach. Under Boudreau the team emotionally collapsed after losing to Montreal. They became erratic. Under Trotz after that same failure, the team has improved. You would have to consider that after the roster damage done this off season that they have yet again improved. I think at that level he is special.

His problem is that he just can not manage the increasing pile of choke the team has produced and how that effects his group come playoffs. In my view the playoff problems are entirely mental. As good as Trotz has been at the mental rebuild required by each playoff failure come the next regular season, he seems lost at the same work come playoffs.

Meanwhile. Anyone else thinking that this three goals per game Holtby is giving up is resulting as much from Korn being gone than the rookies on defense?

Korn was the man, so I'm sure that effects him some. Honestly not sure though. Yesterday Holtby was outstanding and gave up 3 goals mainly due to our turnovers and St.Louis being a good team. Grubies numbers are still good yet he hasn't gotten the support to get the wins.

 

[maacoshark]

Lets be honest. Trotz has shown the reason why he has so many wins and has such longevity as a head coach. Under Boudreau the team emotionally collapsed after losing to Montreal. They became erratic. Under Trotz after that same failure, the team has improved. You would have to consider that after the roster damage done this off season that they have yet again improved. I think at that level he is special.

His problem is that he just can not manage the increasing pile of choke the team has produced and how that effects his group come playoffs. In my view the playoff problems are entirely mental. As good as Trotz has been at the mental rebuild required by each playoff failure come the next regular season, he seems lost at the same work come playoffs.

Meanwhile. Anyone else thinking that this three goals per game Holtby is giving up is resulting as much from Korn being gone than the rookies on defense?

The playoff failures probably bare mental.
I really don't Holtby givingup 3 goals per game lately has anything to do with Korn. Watching him play this season he is playing as well as he did the past couple seasons. He doesn't let in many soft goals. The majority of the goals he didnt have much chance. Its not all on the rookies either. The team hasnt played as well defensively as a whole. Another note scoring is up a bit this year so I'm sure his goals against would have been up a bit even if nothing changed from last season. I like to see his G.A.A around the 2.30 mark. I honestly have no problem with the way Holtby us playing. He has kept us in some games that we were totally outplayed and should have lost. So many times this year we were down in games and Holtby would not give up the next goal that would have finished us off. We came back and won a handful of games that we had no business winning. He also hasnt lost in OT or a shoot out. I think his record speaks for itself.

 

[g00n]

Watch him play. He still glide around too much. We all know Trotz doesn't like that.

So in your mind Ovechkin for the last 3+ years has been defying his coach and getting away with it? You must not think much of Trotz as a coach.

Ovechkin is the primary scoring force on this team and has been for years. Your Dale Hunter-esque obsession with locking him into a 2-way mold similar to his centerman does not fit with the goals or construction of this team.

Have you been watching him this year? His shot power and accuracy is as good as it's ever been. His skating power and speed are back to levels we haven't seen since maybe 2010. He has been leading the league in goals more days than not, or at least close to it (currently tied with 27). He's doing his job and Trotz KNOWS IT.

You like plus/minus...Ovechkin is plus 11. Your defensive stalward Nick Backstrom is plus 7 and he hasn't been producing shit this year offensively to justify it. Why aren't you complaining about his game?

 

[Sam Spade]

Just before the goal, a bad icing call by the refs, wings can't change, stamkos wins the faceoff and Kucherov scores.

Yeah I was watching that too.

I love Kucherov I really do, I gravitate towards Russian players because they tend to play with flair. The ONLY reason I don't want him to win the Rocket is so this picture will not be duplicated:

And while yes I understand that Gretzky has won all the titles many times, I love the fact that there is only ONE picture like this in existence.

I don't even care if Ovie doesn't win it, heck Lee can win it for all I care, as long as it isn't Kucherov, because if he even halfway keeps playing as he is playing, he is winning the Ross, Lindsay and Hart, as he should.

Yes folks I am that petty when it comes to Ovechkin.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Yeah I was watching that too.

I love Kucherov I really do, I gravitate towards Russian players because they tend to play with flair. The ONLY reason I don't want him to win the Rocket is so this picture will not be duplicated:

And while yes I understand that Gretzky has won all the titles many times, I love the fact that there is only ONE picture like this in existence.

I don't even care if Ovie doesn't win it, heck Lee can win it for all I care, as long as it isn't Kucherov, because if he even halfway keeps playing as he is playing, he is winning the Ross, Lindsay and Hart, as he should.

Yes folks I am that petty when it comes to Ovechkin.

Kucherov sweeping the awards takes nothing away from what Ovechkin did 10 years ago. Ovi scored 65 goals in spectacular fashion, nothing Kucherov can do will hurt Ovechkin's legacy.

I would find it cool if Kucherov won all the awards, he's a fun player to watch. I still hope Ovi takes another Rocket though.

 

[Sam Spade]

Kucherov sweeping the awards takes nothing away from what Ovechkin did 10 years ago. Ovi scored 65 goals in spectacular fashion, nothing Kucherov can do will hurt Ovechkin's legacy.

I would find it cool if Kucherov won all the awards, he's a fun player to watch. I still hope Ovi takes another Rocket though.

Damnit Kuzy, you're missing the point!

It's the only picture like that in the history of pictures!!!!!!

 

[Langway]

In my view the playoff problems are entirely mental.

Only in the sense that everything is mental. IMO they just don't plan ahead and it kills them when they need to reach another level of performance and can't get along with yet more efforting making the difference. It's not just the pressure that ails them but their fundamentals not laying the groundwork to add further substance and poise on top of it. If there's a deep flaw in Trotz's approach it's that. Structure and effort are musts but they need to add more applied layers on top of it and never really need to do that in the regular season in order to have success.

They do what they do pretty well but when it's not enough they don't have enough fortitude and substance. Their possession habit, cohesion and underlying focus on the attack remain questionable. They have the shooting talent to overcome it in the regular season but don't camp out and get to the danger areas often enough. They play a very reliable regular season game but when the game becomes more intense and determined they haven't been able to elevate. Some of it is personnel being a bit soft but the approach generally hasn't done enough to foster more tenacity and scrappiness. They so often have a collection of limited grinders and finesse skilled players without enough overlap between them and aren't so elite on the back-end to win that way. It's the disjointedness when the pace ramps up more than anything mental. There's a legacy that doesn't help their confidence but they also haven't built enough of a true play-for-keeps type mentality. The ease of their regular season success remains a bit a burden in that it hasn't forced them to build their fundamentals out to where they ultimately need to be.

 

[maacoshark]

Only in the sense that everything is mental. IMO they just don't plan ahead and it kills them when they need to reach another level of performance and can't get along with yet more efforting making the difference. It's not just the pressure that ails them but their fundamentals not laying the groundwork to add further substance and poise on top of it. If there's a deep flaw in Trotz's approach it's that. Structure and effort are musts but they need to add more applied layers on top of it and never really need to do that in the regular season in order to have success.

They do what they do pretty well but when it's not enough they don't have enough fortitude and substance. Their possession habit, cohesion and underlying focus on the attack remain questionable. They have the shooting talent to overcome it in the regular season but don't camp out and get to the danger areas often enough. They play a very reliable regular season game but when the game becomes more intense and determined they haven't been able to elevate. Some of it is personnel being a bit soft but the approach generally hasn't done enough to foster more tenacity and scrappiness. They so often have a collection of limited grinders and finesse skilled players without enough overlap between them and aren't so elite on the back-end to win that way. It's the disjointedness when the pace ramps up more than anything mental. There's a legacy that doesn't help their confidence but they also haven't built enough of a true play-for-keeps type mentality. The ease of their regular season success remains a bit a burden in that it hasn't forced them to build their fundamentals out to where they ultimately need to be.

I kind of agree about the fundamentals. The part I'm not sure where you bare going is when you said structure and effort is a must but they need to add mire applied layers on top. What layers are you referring to?

 

[Ridley Simon]

just read the last two pages. they did win the game.or am I wrong?

Lost again. Losing streak is now what, 12 games or something?

 

[maacoshark]

That's not how it works. If you want to beat a dead horse and make contrarian comments on this forum then you will be called out and you're not owed a book report explaining why you're wrong every time you post. We've all talked at length about these issues before you arrived. You're welcome to search the forum and read what's been written, or even read what some people say to you in the present. But you don't seem to listen to anyone which makes it a waste of time.

As for your comment itself, it's pointless to argue with you because you have a bias against Ovechkin that shines through nearly everything you say here, and you seem to be ignoring what people have laid out regarding playoff coaching concerns. It's asinine to blame the franchise player for playoff failures when the coach is a career playoff loser himself and more often than not the player shows up despite injury while the coach fails to adapt.

And fwiw, people will post what they want to here as long as it's within the rules. It's not your job to make such decisions.

Wtf is wrong with you people? I'm not bias against Ovi. I like Ovi but he makes his share of bad plays more than most players and you refuse to admit it. Nothing I have said about Ovi is a lie. Coaches have has issues with his play before Trotz was here and that is a fact. Its not just Ovi that needs to play a complete game. Everyone does. But Ovi is the captain and so called leader. He is supposed to lead by example. If anyone is bias here, its you. Especially with that ridiculous post saying that we pay Ovi to score goals. Dont dare say anything bad about Ovi. So that means its OK for him to float around and not back check, taking extra long shifts, not forecheck. I'm pretty sure the coaching staff wants him to do more than just score goals. If all they want from Ovi is goals and nothing else then this team has no chance at a cup. And it wouldn't matter who the coach is.

 

[g00n]

Wtf is wrong with you people? I'm not bias against Ovi. I like Ovi but he makes his share of bad plays more than most players and you refuse to admit it. Nothing I have said about Ovi is a lie. Coaches have has issues with his play before Trotz was here and that is a fact. Its not just Ovi that needs to play a complete game. Everyone does. But Ovi is the captain and so called leader. He is supposed to lead by example. If anyone is bias here, its you. Especially with that ridiculous post saying that we pay Ovi to score goals. Dont dare say anything bad about Ovi. So that means its OK for him to float around and not back check, taking extra long shifts, not forecheck. I'm pretty sure the coaching staff wants him to do more than just score goals. If all they want from Ovi is goals and nothing else then this team has no chance at a cup. And it wouldn't matter who the coach is.

You're new so you don't know that we've all talked about this so much it's been done to death. We're well aware of Ovi's floating moments and long shifts. Your portrayal of this board as a place where Ovie does no wrong is so far off the mark it's comical.

The problem is you have an outdated and unreasonable opinion of his play and his role which you claim is not a "bias". Ok, fine. Let's call it a filter through which you view events that causes you to see certain aspects of his game and not others, while also somehow missing the disproportionately greater positives he brings to the team. Your complaints would be more suited to Ovechkin pre-Trotz than they are now. Hell, probably pre-Oates and pre-Hunter.

So your strangely timed complaints come off like a time capsule of nitpickery rather than a serious opinion. If you think that makes everyone else here biased and you correct I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Langway]

I kind of agree about the fundamentals. The part I'm not sure where you bare going is when you said structure and effort is a must but they need to add mire applied layers on top. What layers are you referring to?

Slowing the game down better mentally, better using their skills/awareness, driving the net more and shooting for rebounds. There's still the predictability of their breakouts when pressured, too. It's mostly about better applying their skills, sense and awareness collectively in tightening up beyond what raw effort and their baseline defensive soundness affords them. They can get by as-is but there's a lot more detail they can still stand to add to be even more formidable.

Beyond that they really need Kuznetsov, Vrana and Burakovsky to take big strides if they're going to be deep enough. Kuznetsov in particular.