Post-Game Talk: 3pm Blues @ Caps

[maacoshark]

I feel like the question of whether this team is well-coached or not should also heavily weigh Trotz’s postseason performances. Obviously things can change this postseason assuming the Caps make it, but he hasn’t pushed enough of the right buttons come playoff time in the past for both Washington and Nashville.

It’s relatively easy compared to the postseason, at least tactically, to navigate a regular season. A compact schedule against different opponents every night leads to fewer necessary adjustments. In a playoff series the coach takes increased importance as adjustments need to be made between series, between games, between periods, and even within periods. Trotz has often been slow or unwilling to adjust in the postseason and that’s my main concern with him. For a team whose performance is graded almost exclusively by their playoff performance, why should Trotz be graded differently? Until he shows otherwise I’m skeptical he’ll change his stripes.

Why does everyone assume its Trotz? I dont buy that.

 

[RandyHolt]

All the times that I have been at Kettler, I cannot recall 3 on 3 practiced.... maybe ever. I feel confident that Vrana would do fine 3 on 3. I assume he was an effective 3on3 player in Hershey.

 

[maacoshark]

Ovechkin gets paid to score goals and put butts in the seats, dude. Get over it.

Then maybe you guys should quit complaining when we lose in the playoffs because you dont win in the playoffs playing like that. And then you guys have the nerve to blame coaching. Its not coaching.

 

[g00n]

Then maybe you guys should quit complaining when we lose in the playoffs because you dont win in the playoffs playing like that. And then you guys have the nerve to blame coaching. Its not coaching.

Right, sure. Whatever. Not going down another one of your contrary rabbit holes.

 

[hockeykicker]

Why does everyone assume its Trotz? I dont buy that.

exactly, i mean we can only blame boudreau, hunter, oates, trotz so many times

 

[hockeykicker]

Then maybe you guys should quit complaining when we lose in the playoffs because you dont win in the playoffs playing like that. And then you guys have the nerve to blame coaching. Its not coaching.

you also dont seem to win in the playoffs outshooting your opponents by a lot and dominating them in every aspect as weve seen with the previous caps

 

[maacoshark]

I dunno, I think he'd be great 3 on 3 so long as he has some vet or defensive help the first few times at full game speed. They must practice 3 on 3. I wonder how he does....

They are likely worried about his defense but I dont have a prob if Vrana got some OT ice time.

 

[traparatus]

beagle is said by numerous caps players to be the hardest working player on the team. they love him. now imagine how they feel if he gets scratched? you dont hear that about burakovsky, vrana etc

and i get that no player should be above a scratch but beagle and oshie look like glue that holds them together

The exact same thing was said about Alzner last year, probably by you among other people. Hardest working, hear-and-soul and all that jazz. Now Alzner is making Habs' fans eyes bleed while Ovechkin can still shoot, Backstrom can still pass and Holtby is stopping the puck just fine.

This time next year we will be discussing why the team didn't promote Stephenson to #3/#4 center a year ago and wasted a great opportunity to create an effective depth scoring line. Fans of some other team will be discussing why it is that Beagle is still in the NHL.

 

[maacoshark]

you also dont seem to win in the playoffs outshooting your opponents by a lot and dominating them in every aspect as weve seen with the previous caps

You mean like the year we lost to the Habs and everyone said Halak stood on his head because he was facing 40 plus shots a game even though the majority of those shots were from the outside with no traffic in front of the net.
Or even last season against Pittsburgh. The Pens scored a lot of goals on limited shots.

 

[hockeykicker]

The exact same thing was said about Alzner last year, probably by you among other people. Hardest working, hear-and-soul and all that jazz. Now Alzner is making Habs' fans eyes bleed while Ovechkin can still shoot, Backstrom can still pass and Holtby is stopping the puck just fine.

This time next year we will be discussing why the team didn't promote Stephenson to #3/#4 center a year ago and wasted a great opportunity to create an effective depth scoring line. Fans of some other team will be discussing why it is that Beagle is still in the NHL.

im still trying to figure out stephenson is better then eller or beagle.

beagle is a pk, top faceoff guy playing on the 4th line and on pace for one of his best years offensively (8 goals, 16 assists as a 4th liner)

eller is on pace for a career high in points

stephenson has played in 29 games and has 2 goals and 8 assists. chiasson has 7 goals

 

[maacoshark]

The exact same thing was said about Alzner last year, probably by you among other people. Hardest working, hear-and-soul and all that jazz. Now Alzner is making Habs' fans eyes bleed while Ovechkin can still shoot, Backstrom can still pass and Holtby is stopping the puck just fine.

This time next year we will be discussing why the team didn't promote Stephenson to #3/#4 center a year ago and wasted a great opportunity to create an effective depth scoring line. Fans of some other team will be discussing why it is that Beagle is still in the NHL.

Not sure how high the Caps are on Beagle. Even though he comes in to take the majority of defensive zone faceoffs, even in OT and he kills penalties he had the lowest amount of ice time. I think the only thing keeping him in the lineup is his ability in the fave off circle.

 

[twabby]

exactly, i mean we can only blame boudreau, hunter, oates, trotz so many times

There are specific faults I have pointed out with Trotz’s playoff decisions in the past that are unrelated to player or past coaching performances. I’ll try to dig up the post.

Edit:

There are plenty of reasons to suggest Trotz has been a poor playoff coach.

1. Benching Schmidt for the first few games of the Toronto series in favor of a gimpy Alzner
2. Not recognizing that Orlov and Niskanen was the team’s best defensive option against the Leafs until Game 4
3. Playing 7D in the playoffs which consisted of having Orpik and Alzner on the ice for periods of time (and giving up a backbreaking goal)
4. Failing to reach the third round not only in Washington, but in Nashville with completely different personnel including a few pretty good teams on paper
5. Choosing to play Mike Weber and Taylor Chorney in 2016 instead of Orlov or Schmidt
6. Not being able to successfully solve the Penguins’ counter-attacking style in 2017 until Game 3.

Probably a few other things I’m missing, including implementing the low-to-high which IMO isn’t nearly as effective in the postseason due to defenders being much more willing to block shots from the point in the playoffs.

It’s perfectly fair to be disappointed in the players as well but Trotz has been far from good in the playoffs.

It’s not a matter of throwing my hands up in the air and saying “well it must be Trotz”. Again, I think several players deserve blame for the past 3 years of playoff failures (and before Trotz arrived as well) but that doesn’t mean Trotz doesn’t deserve blame as well.

And like I said, maybe this postseason is different. I just wouldn’t necessarily bet on Trotz being a difference maker this postseason.

 

[maacoshark]

Right, sure. Whatever. Not going down another one of your contrary rabbit holes.

Because you know I'm right.

 

[Sam Spade]

And what theme is that? I am very critical of players making poor or selfish plays. Which is why I like players like Bergeron and Kopitar so much. The closest we have to a player like that is Backstrom. Its not always about ability. Its hockey IQ. Something a few of our players lack at times.

If Ovechkin isn't on this team they are clinging, maybe, to a wildcard spot, and that is doubtful. Ovechkin is NOT Bergeron or Kopitar, two players I appreciate. Ovechkin just does the hardest thing in the NHL better than anyone else.

Goals created this season, 3rd in the league.
Goals created per game, 2nd in the league.
Even strength goals, 2nd in the league.
On ice goals for, 10th in the league.
21% of the Capitals goals this season have been score by Ovechkin.

So let Backstrom or Oshie be the "IQ" of the team and I will just enjoy the greatest goal scorer of the last twenty years doing his thing.

 

[hockeykicker]

There are specific faults I have pointed out with Trotz’s playoff decisions in the past that are unrelated to player or past coaching performances. I’ll try to dig up the post.

Edit:


It’s not a matter of throwing my hands up in the air and saying “well it must be Trotz”. Again, I think several players deserve blame for the past 3 years of playoff failures (and before Trotz arrived as well) but that doesn’t mean Trotz doesn’t deserve blame as well.

And like I said, maybe this postseason is different. I just wouldn’t necessarily bet on Trotz being a difference maker this postseason.

and your right we can blame trotz but i mean he could have the greatest attack plan ever and the players may just struggle

 

[Sam Spade]

Then maybe you guys should quit complaining when we lose in the playoffs because you dont win in the playoffs playing like that. And then you guys have the nerve to blame coaching. Its not coaching.

Ovie gets the top dmen from every team every night, this is magnified in the playoffs when the scrub dmen are gone.

Hockey is really the only sport were one player can not do everything, and yet Ovie has been good in the playoffs, not great, but good. He has more than done his part for this team in every capacity.

 

[maacoshark]

If Ovechkin isn't on this team they are clinging, maybe, to a wildcard spot, and that is doubtful. Ovechkin is NOT Bergeron or Kopitar, two players I appreciate. Ovechkin just does the hardest thing in the NHL better than anyone else.

Goals created this season, 3rd in the league.
Goals created per game, 2nd in the league.
Even strength goals, 2nd in the league.
On ice goals for, 10th in the league.
21% of the Capitals goals this season have been score by Ovechkin.

So let Backstrom or Oshie be the "IQ" of the team and I will just enjoy the greatest goal scorer of the last twenty years doing his thing.

I agree that we need Ovi. He is the best goal scorer in the league. But if we are going to win in the playoffs we need other things from him. He doesn't have to be a shutdown guy but he needs to make better decisions.

 

[maacoshark]

and your right we can blame trotz but i mean he could have the greatest attack plan ever and the players may just struggle

BTW I'm not saying Trotz is the guy to win us a cup. I dont think he is the reason we haven't won.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I dunno, I think he'd be great 3 on 3 so long as he has some vet or defensive help the first few times at full game speed. They must practice 3 on 3. I wonder how he does....

He has great speed, I'm just not sure if he is ready for all the subtle things in 3vs3 hockey.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

There are specific faults I have pointed out with Trotz’s playoff decisions in the past that are unrelated to player or past coaching performances. I’ll try to dig up the post.

Edit:


It’s not a matter of throwing my hands up in the air and saying “well it must be Trotz”. Again, I think several players deserve blame for the past 3 years of playoff failures (and before Trotz arrived as well) but that doesn’t mean Trotz doesn’t deserve blame as well.

And like I said, maybe this postseason is different. I just wouldn’t necessarily bet on Trotz being a difference maker this postseason.

Orlov and Schmidt were absolutely awful in the 2016 playoffs. I have bad memories of Bonino splitting them before making a pass to Lovejoy for a goal in game 1, or that goal by Hagelin in game 3 where he knocked Schmidt down to the ground while scoring on a backdoor feed from Bonino.

Trotz had to take a chance on Chorney and Weber. Unfortunately, they were even worse. It's easy to say in hindsight that Trotz should've stuck with Orlov and Schmidt.

 

[Sam Spade]

I agree that we need Ovi. He is the best goal scorer in the league. But if we are going to win in the playoffs we need other things from him. He doesn't have to be a shutdown guy but he needs to make better decisions.

I will need some examples of the last few playoffs because I think Ovechkin has done everything the coaching staff has asked of him. His possession numbers every year under Trotz are positive.

I blame the playoff failure on 18 guys, not one, with some coaching decisions thrown in there as well.

 

[maacoshark]

I will need some examples of the last few playoffs because I think Ovechkin has done everything the coaching staff has asked of him. His possession numbers every year under Trotz are positive.

I blame the playoff failure on 18 guys, not one, with some coaching decisions thrown in there as well.

I know we need 18 guys. So we can't just say that we a particular guy to score. If that is the case we won't win a cup. We need all 18 guys to buy into the system and play a complete game.

 

[g00n]

Because you know I'm right.

No because it's a waste of time.

 

[maacoshark]

No because it's a waste of time.

Then dont put in your 2 cents.

 

[g00n]

Then dont put in your 2 cents.

That's not how it works. If you want to beat a dead horse and make contrarian comments on this forum then you will be called out and you're not owed a book report explaining why you're wrong every time you post. We've all talked at length about these issues before you arrived. You're welcome to search the forum and read what's been written, or even read what some people say to you in the present. But you don't seem to listen to anyone which makes it a waste of time.

As for your comment itself, it's pointless to argue with you because you have a bias against Ovechkin that shines through nearly everything you say here, and you seem to be ignoring what people have laid out regarding playoff coaching concerns. It's asinine to blame the franchise player for playoff failures when the coach is a career playoff loser himself and more often than not the player shows up despite injury while the coach fails to adapt.

And fwiw, people will post what they want to here as long as it's within the rules. It's not your job to make such decisions.