2nd best goalie prospect in the world?

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Levitate

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Jul 29, 2004
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YES. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU RANK PROSPECTS ON.

I have NO idea what you use as your ranking system, but I use potential and their play in their leagues. What else do you want to use to rank with??

erm, i hate to nitpick (actually no i don't but hey) but honestly potential should just be one thing you rank prospects on. a player could have all the potential in the world but if he really has no chance of reaching it (or it just looks very unlikely he'll reach it), is he really a good prospect still? a guy can have all the phyiscal talents in the world and potential to be wonderful player but if he can't put it together then what good does the potential do
 

Hedberg

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FlyersFan10 said:
No, he isn't. Far from it. Niitymaki and Toivenen are far superior to Marc-Andre Fleury.

In the AHL. AHL success does not always translate into NHl success

Martin Brodeur had an 884% save percentage in the AHL in 1993 and backed up Corey Schwab. The AHL goalie of the year that year was Corey Hirsch. It's the same situation in Wilkes-Barre (Note: I'm not saying Fleury is going to be as good as Brodeur.
 

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Hedberg16 said:
In the AHL. AHL success does not always translate into NHL success

I agree with that statement to a degree. Where I disagree with the statement is that Fleury melts down in big game situations. Yes, he is a good goalie, I will not deny that. However, his mental makeup of the game is what concerns me at this point. It really means nothing to me that Niittymaki and Toivenen are older. What matters is that they have composure in big game situations. Fleury doesn't. And you can track that throughout his career so far. When the games don't matter, he plays great. When the games do matter though, he loses it. And that's something to be concerned about. I heard that Pittsburgh doesn't have a goaltending coach. Now might be the opportune time to invest in one.

Hedberg16 said:
Martin Brodeur had an 884% save percentage in the AHL in 1993 and backed up Corey Schwab. The AHL goalie of the year that year was Corey Hirsch. It's the same situation in Wilkes-Barre (Note: I'm not saying Fleury is going to be as good as Brodeur.

I will say this though about Brodeur. He has always had confidence in his abilities and he always stepped up when the games mattered. Let's also remember that Martin played in the AHL when the game was so different from today's game. He didn't have the luxury of neutral zone crap hockey that he does today. I'd like to think that if he played today, his numbers would be absolutely astronomical. After watching some of the R&D that the NHL has had going on the past couple of days, I'm really looking forward to the smaller equipment on goalies. It was unbelievable how much room opened up. Of course, if they're going to go with smaller equipment, then those synergy sticks have to go. Some is going to get killed one of these days with those sticks.
 

Til the End of Time

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Up until the WJC meltdown, Fleury was known to be a very mentally tough goaltender; in fact, that was supposed to be one of his biggest strengths.

And now he is known as a headcase.

I'd say the truth lies somewhere in between.
 

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Til the End of Time said:
Up until the WJC meltdown, Fleury was known to be a very mentally tough goaltender; in fact, that was supposed to be one of his biggest strengths.

And now he is known as a headcase.

I'd say the truth lies somewhere in between.

Hmmm, he also conked out with his junior team in Cape Breton. He was sent back and they got swept in the opening round. He starts the playoffs for the baby Pens, they go down in the games he plays against Binghamton and he gets replaced by Chiodo who stood on his head and also stood on his head against Philadelphia. I think what's going on is that Fleury's confidence might be heavily shaken and that he might need a goalie coach to help work on his confidence with him. The talent is there, but the mental makeup seems to have suffered.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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FlyersFan10 said:
Hmmm, he also conked out with his junior team in Cape Breton. He was sent back and they got swept in the opening round. He starts the playoffs for the baby Pens, they go down in the games he plays against Binghamton and he gets replaced by Chiodo who stood on his head and also stood on his head against Philadelphia. I think what's going on is that Fleury's confidence might be heavily shaken and that he might need a goalie coach to help work on his confidence with him. The talent is there, but the mental makeup seems to have suffered.
That Cape Breton team had some of the most poison makeups in junior hockey and forced Pascal Vincent to rethink the way he does business, especially at the draft table. The older players like Tessier and Corbeil were just poison. There was much more than Fleury involved there. There is some ammo but really its hard to judge a player until he matures. I was really down on Leclaire but apparently he has progressed. You never really know but i was sure when i saw Fleury he was going to be a top NHL goalie so i'll stick to it for now.
 

Ola

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Finn said:
You are kidding right? that was nowhere near the best WCH ever played...

Russia, Czech Rep and Canada all had extremely deep teams. USA had some really good players, Sweden had the new generation ect. Atleast I can't remember a WCH where the top 3, Russia, Czech Republic and Canada all had great teams.
 

Ola

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Allot of people talk about potential, and then mention numbers in this or that league.

How about for once judge a prospects on how he plays the game. Statistics always lie. Its a team game.

Nittymäki is a good goalie, no doubt about it. But he is on the small side and plays somewhat of a risky style. He is a guy that can have tremendous streaks ect. when his game is on. But in the longrun I don't think he will be one of the elite goalies in the league.

Toivonen looks like a really safe guy. Have Gigurere type of potential. But he is not that fast post to post. Far from world class. And if anything that will be taken advantage of in the NHL.

Lundqvist have size, 6'1.5, have extremely fast feets. Is really good at playing the angles. He also have a great mentality and is a proven winner. He have keept improving a ton every year, gone from beeing a 8rd pick to IMO top 10 prospect in the world. Headsup with Theodore who had a really good series Lundqvist still came out on top. Henrik have it all, from beeing extremely solid to making idiot saves. He have had no problems whatsoever playing against eliteplayers.
 

Ola

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Hedberg16 said:
In the AHL. AHL success does not always translate into NHl success

I agree, the AHL is a really special league. Its so extreme. Look at someone like Rico Fata who have had some impressive runs in the AHL. His only talent is that he is extremely fast and good at jumping behind defensemens on the rush. Still he outscored some really talented europeans in the AHL.

There is no room in the AHL for any other type of game then a extremely sterotyped dump n chase system. This is a great challenge for goaltenders and great preperation before the NHL. But just because you can handle the AHL game it doesn't mean that you can handle the NHL game. Look at Jason Labarrera in HFD, won the MVP and set goalierecords in the AHL and was humiliated in the NHL once he got a callup... I saw one game with him i the net against the Avs., once they got the puck moving he looked dizzy.
 

Pepper

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Both Toivonen and Lehtonen are bigger than Lundqvist (6'2, 6'3 vs. 6'1 according to hockeydb.com) and both are known to be very quick for big guys.

Also SEL doesn't prove anything either (just like AHL), AHL hockey is closer to NHL because of the rinks and playstyle, talent-wise SEL was ahead this year but apart from that, AHL is closer to NHL.

Not saying Lundqvist is a bad prospect, far from it, I just think he's quite unproven at this point.
 

paxtang

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Niittymaki was consistant all year long. He's not a streaky goaltender anymore IMO. I think that's one thing he's worked on very well.
 

f1nn

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Jan 12, 2004
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Ola said:
Allot of people talk about potential, and then mention numbers in this or that league.

How about for once judge a prospects on how he plays the game. Statistics always lie. Its a team game.

Nittymäki is a good goalie, no doubt about it. But he is on the small side and plays somewhat of a risky style. He is a guy that can have tremendous streaks ect. when his game is on. But in the longrun I don't think he will be one of the elite goalies in the league.

Toivonen looks like a really safe guy. Have Gigurere type of potential. But he is not that fast post to post. Far from world class. And if anything that will be taken advantage of in the NHL.

Lundqvist have size, 6'1.5, have extremely fast feets. Is really good at playing the angles. He also have a great mentality and is a proven winner. He have keept improving a ton every year, gone from beeing a 8rd pick to IMO top 10 prospect in the world. Headsup with Theodore who had a really good series Lundqvist still came out on top. Henrik have it all, from beeing extremely solid to making idiot saves. He have had no problems whatsoever playing against eliteplayers.

good job bud, what country you from again?

Toivonen with Giguere type of potential? don't think so

Lundqvist a PROVEN winner? in the SEl yes he is.. international play NOPE... North America NOPE... and I sure hope that you're not saying Lundqvist is better than Theodore....
 

adurn

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Dec 22, 2003
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Lundqvist has size at 6'1.5", but Niittymaki is on the small side at 6'1".

:biglaugh:
 

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Can someone explain to me what the hell size has to do with goaltending??
 

Hedberg

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Panasonic Youth said:
Can someone explain to me what the hell size has to do with goaltending??

The bigger you are, the bigger the chest protecter you can have, so you take up more space in the net.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter
 
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