2nd best goalie prospect in the world?

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TRask

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Even tho Fluerry hasnt really lived up to expectations the last little while, i still hold him with high value. Anyone whos watched him play can just seee the raw ability he does poses. I mean he was unreal for the first bit of that nhl season he played. I still hold him as a top goalie and probably if i had to pick a goaltender id probably take him at three after lehtonen and hannu. just my opinion tho, Hes still only young, has lots of time to get his head back on his shoullders.
 

MojoJojo

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Hedberg16 said:
I thought being a prospect was about potential, not current ability?
(This is the who's the second best goalie not in the NHL thread)

At what point do people stop paying attention to his draft order and watch what he is doing on the ice?

And how is potential about who is the second best goalie not in the NHL? MAF is no where near the second best goalie not in the NHL.
 

thestonedkoala

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Patrick - Flames Fan said:
That is a fairly weak arguement. That is like saying AO or Malkin shouldn't be highly regarded because while they are amazing in Europe (just like Lundqvist) they haven't played in the AHL, so they aren't highly rated in your books.

I'm going to tackle both issues at once:

First off, Lundqvist has risen in my books but I'm still cautious about penciling him in over some other goaltenders that have already established their careers in NA. They have a leg up on Lundqvist but I think Lundqvist is going to be a solid goaltender when it's all said and done. He is coming over, I know and once he does, I'll grade him appropriately. Right now Toivonen, Lehtonen, Niittymaki are definitely higher than him, Ward is mixed but I would rate him high, and maybe, MAYBE MAF but I'm worried about MAF and his development. At worst, I think Lundqvist would drop out of the top 5 and be around 6-7...

1) Toivonen
2) Lehtonen
3) Niittymaki
In truth all three goaltenders can be switched around

4) MAF (on potential)
5) Ward
6) Lundqvist

Secondly, Brodeur has proven OVER and OVER again he's a solid goaltender in the NHL. Lundqvist has only proven he's a solid goaltender in the SEL. Which one would you take?
 

FLYLine27*

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DoobieDoobieDo said:
I'm going to tackle both issues at once:

First off, Lundqvist has risen in my books but I'm still cautious about penciling him in over some other goaltenders that have already established their careers in NA. They have a leg up on Lundqvist but I think Lundqvist is going to be a solid goaltender when it's all said and done. He is coming over, I know and once he does, I'll grade him appropriately. Right now Toivonen, Lehtonen, Niittymaki are definitely higher than him, Ward is mixed but I would rate him high, and maybe, MAYBE MAF but I'm worried about MAF and his development. At worst, I think Lundqvist would drop out of the top 5 and be around 6-7...

1) Toivonen
2) Lehtonen
3) Niittymaki
In truth all three goaltenders can be switched around

4) MAF (on potential)
5) Ward
6) Lundqvist

Secondly, Brodeur has proven OVER and OVER again he's a solid goaltender in the NHL. Lundqvist has only proven he's a solid goaltender in the SEL. Which one would you take?

I like your argument a lot...and your ratings....so ill agree with ya...only thing i would rate Lundqvist over Ward. (but like you said 4-6 could easily be interchangeable) Also ill give a little more credit to MAF (in the 1-3 area..buts hes 4 so good enough)
 

Hedberg

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MojoJojo said:
And how is potential about who is the second best goalie not in the NHL? MAF is no where near the second best goalie not in the NHL.

:banghead: Stupid typo. I meant to say this is NOT.
 

thestonedkoala

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Ward is underrated IMO. He came into the AHL really low-radar on a questionable Lowell Lock Monster's team and posted some very, very good numbers on what looks like a weak team. I think part of the reason Lowell did good is because of Ward...

He saw over 1400 shots putting him around 10th overall for shots seen and still put some good numbers up.

Right now I would put him over Lundqvist because he's proven and he's on a weak Lowell team.
 

Le Golie

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Jul 4, 2002
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NYRGoalieGlut said:
What the hell is wrong with you? You're an Islanders fan and thus MUST act accordingly and say that Lundqvist sucks, just like Rangers fans trash/trashed Dipietro. :shakehead Anyway I think that Fleury is definately ahead of Lundqvist as he at least played in NA. For some reason I understood this thread to mean from Europe, I guess I was wrong.

Who are you?

I can pick apart Dipietro just as objectively as I can any goalie in this league. One poster asked for my opinion and I gave it to him. It has nothing to do with the Ranger/Islander rivalry. I think very highly of Lundqvist, just as I do of the other four I rated. All are very good prospects. How can you honestly view my post about him come away from it thinking I said he 'sucks'? Go read it again, you are mistaking an experienced and intellegent analysis for bias.
 

freakazoid

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DoobieDoobieDo said:
Ward is underrated IMO. He came into the AHL really low-radar on a questionable Lowell Lock Monster's team and posted some very, very good numbers on what looks like a weak team. I think part of the reason Lowell did good is because of Ward...

He saw over 1400 shots putting him around 10th overall for shots seen and still put some good numbers up.

Right now I would put him over Lundqvist because he's proven and he's on a weak Lowell team.
You meant to say led the AHL in save percentage, was among the best in GAA and racked up quite a few wins even though he was a ROOKIE and had Krahn, not so bad himself, as a second netminder in the team. He posted better stats in his first season than Toivonen did in his (or this one for a matter of fact) and Lehtonen (pretty equal this season). He dominated everywhere he played, while Fleury got his shine after the WJC, but after was fairly average. My pick as second best is Ward, with Toivonen not far behind. Fleury has things to prove before being considered a top 5. "Potential" doesn't cut it. He has plenty, but I see him as a boom or bust kind of guy.
 

Vagrant

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freakazoid said:
You meant to say led the AHL in save percentage, was among the best in GAA and racked up quite a few wins even though he was a ROOKIE and had Krahn, not so bad himself, as a second netminder in the team. He posted better stats in his first season than Toivonen did in his (or this one for a matter of fact) and Lehtonen (pretty equal this season). He dominated everywhere he played, while Fleury got his shine after the WJC, but after was fairly average. My pick as second best is Ward, with Toivonen not far behind. Fleury has things to prove before being considered a top 5. "Potential" doesn't cut it. He has plenty, but I see him as a boom or bust kind of guy.


About time somebody gave this kid his due. Well said.

I've been president of his fan club for the past three years back to his days at Red Deer and i've seen nothing but good things from him. His glove hand is lightning quick and his reflexes and positioning are top notch. People wondered if he would adjust to playing for a bad team, and those questions were silenced this season for the abysmal Lowell Lockmonsters.
 

Taxman

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Handsome B. Wonderful said:
ummmm...Fleury...easily.

Have you watched how Fleury has played for the last year and a half? Easily #2? I disagree.

He has looked like absolute crap for a while now.

Meanwhile, Lehtonen continues to shine in the AHL, having an incredible playoff performance yet again. Unlike MAF, Lehtonen shines when the games count the most. He is a proven big game goalie.

I would take Cam Ward and Toivenen over MAF for sure.
 
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Puckhead

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DoobieDoobieDo said:
Until Lundqvist comes over and plays in the AHL, he isn't rated very highly in my books...Top 10 sure but...
Agreed! He seems to have all the tools, but as we've seen countless times in the past, European goalies need time to adjust and while he is impressive, I will wait to see how he does in the bigs. Lehtonen is a clear cut #1, with Toivenen a close second.
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

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Big Phil said:
I think Fleury is right in the #2 spot. Kari is #1 for now but dont be surprised if Fleury passes him and becomes the better goalie. Remember before the 2004 WJC everyone thought Fleury would be great. But one blunder and he's not all of a sudden? Come on. He outlayed Kari by a mile in the '03 WJC. So for me its Fleury at #2 and he shouldnt be too far behind #1.

2 words for people who think highly of MAF as of right now

Andy Chiodo.

do goalies that are regarded as high get replaced by a ECHL goalie in the playoffs?
 

God Bless Canada

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Lehtonen is No. 1 right now. I'd say Fleury is No 2, Ward is No. 3 in my books, Toivonen is No. 4 and Miller is No. 5. I'd say 2-5 is very close, and very interchangable based on next year.

How good is Cam Ward? As a 17-year-old in 2001, he was so good that he forced the Red Deer Rebels to trade the goalie who led them to the Memorial Cup the year before. He was stellar in junior, and should have won the AHL's top rookie award this year.

Josh Harding, who gets better and better each year, will one day be one of the top 10 or 15 in the league, too.

Not sure why everyone is so bullish of Lundquist. Yeah, he's done well in Sweden, but I want to see how he does in the AHL and especially the NHL before he cracks my top five.
 

Habsfan 32

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I think that if Fleury reaches his full potential he will be the best goalie in the world in 5 years but for that he has to reach his full potential. His leg speed his amazing. His legs are faster that almost all the current number one goalies in the NHL.
 

big_steve

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Pardon my language but this is a dilly of a pickle, for me anyway. Hmm..........let me think:
1. Kari Lehtonen
2. Hannu Toivonen
3. Antero Niittymaki
4. Marc-Andre Fleury/Cam Ward(not sure who to go with here)
6. Henrik Lundqvist(wasn't that great at WHC & hasn't played on NA ice but has played great in the SEL, I feel this is an appropriate ranking)

IMO, as an NHLer, MA Fleury will either be in the top of that list (or second) or the very bottom.
 

007

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Minnesota Norse Star said:
Lundquist = Tellquist .... essentially
It is hard to compare Lundqvist to Toivonen or MAF right now, and he may not be as good, but Lundqvist > Tellqvist, no doubt about it.

Personally, I'm surprised with Niittymäki: I haven't seen him play in a long time, but I always thought he looked so small playing deep in the net. I thought he might go the way of Jarmo Myllys.
 

mattihp

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Aug 2, 2004
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big_steve said:
Pardon my language but this is a dilly of a pickle, for me anyway. Hmm..........let me think:
1. Kari Lehtonen
2. Hannu Toivonen
3. Antero Niittymaki
4. Marc-Andre Fleury/Cam Ward(not sure who to go with here)
6. Henrik Lundqvist(wasn't that great at WHC & hasn't played on NA ice but has played great in the SEL, I feel this is an appropriate ranking)

IMO, as an NHLer, MA Fleury will either be in the top of that list (or second) or the very bottom.
I am as a big Niittymäki and TPS fan as there is... But Niittymäki won't ever make it as a starter unless he has a strong backup. These other guys have the potential to be lone starters.
 
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