Post-Game Talk: #28 | FLYERS 4 at Oilers 2 | Wed., Dec. 6, 9:30 pm ET

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,717
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NP and TK need some support and to get back to 10+ ES minutes a game.

Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds
Weal-Filppula-Voracek
Raffl-Patrick-Konecny
Leier-Laughton-Weise
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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Coaching does matter, but I'm not sure a new coach would suddenly bump Patrick up to 13 ES minutes a game.
 

slovakia18

English? I can't.
Jan 7, 2012
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austria/swiss
that Raffl is a phänomen..always when u think "now its the end of his NHl Career" he comes back..undrafted, from the second League in sweden as a Austrian games over games without a point and now all works good.. Strange, i like that guy...
That are the real heros in/from that League...(without drafting only fight and give 100%)
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,159
7,865
Raffl has been fine for years. He's just a guy that is a very complimentary/opportunistic player. People who wanted him gone aren't really good at judging talent.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,619
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Can we get into Wade Allison's point production?

Yes, I wanted Abramov and thought Allison was drafted too early, but Allison's numbers are great so far this season.
I really hope he ends up turning into Josh Anderson, which I said before is my hope.
He's trending in the right direction and will move up my prospect rankings for sure.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
The other side of the coin is what Hakstol and the assistant coaches are doing to help Patrick overcome these mistakes. The tough love is all well and good but if you aren't talking with him or emphasizing proper play in practice, you are wasting a huge asset and potentially pivotal member of the franchise for years to come. We saw this before with Gostisbehere and, to a lesser extent, Cousins; benchins and scratches weren't explained. That is just dumb.
 

Winston Wolf

Registered User
May 15, 2003
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Philadelphia
that Raffl is a phänomen..always when u think "now its the end of his NHl Career" he comes back..undrafted, from the second League in sweden as a Austrian games over games without a point and now all works good.. Strange, i like that guy...
That are the real heros in/from that League...(without drafting only fight and give 100%)
He has been the most misused player on the Flyers during Hakstol's tenure.
 
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Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,630
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NP and TK need some support and to get back to 10+ ES minutes a game.

Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds
Weal-Filppula-Voracek
Raffl-Patrick-Konecny
Leier-Laughton-Weise

Theyll still get buried. They need to split up NP and TK. Only way Dave will get them ice time.

28-14-11
12-19-93
40-51-17
20-21-22

Only way I can see it working.

Hasnt been tried even once this season.
 

explosive skating

Registered User
Jul 5, 2015
664
55
Patrick has done nothing to earn ES minutes in the NHL yet, especially when his team has the lead. Slowest center on the ice, brutal possession stats, creating no offense, and making dangerous plays at his offensive blueline, which he did again in the 3rd tonight up 3-1, that luckily didn't go the other way.

Unfortunately, it's 100% true.
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
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Huron of the Lakes
Yes, I wanted Abramov and thought Allison was drafted too early, but Allison's numbers are great so far this season.
I really hope he ends up turning into Josh Anderson, which I said before is my hope.
He's trending in the right direction and will move up my prospect rankings for sure.

That's still a weird comparison. I get Anderson has had a nice start, but Allison plays with a lot more skill and little style similarity other than some grit. Josh Anderson never even broke a p/pg in the OHL and only had 22 points in 64 games in his draft year, which I thought was supposedly important. Only 17 points in 52 AHL games at the same age too.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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That's still a weird comparison. I get Anderson has had a nice start, but Allison plays with a lot more skill and little style similarity other than some grit. Josh Anderson never even broke a p/pg in the OHL and only had 22 points in 64 games in his draft year, which I thought was supposedly important. Only 17 points in 52 AHL games at the same age too.

I disagree. They both didn't put up points in junior until their 18 year old seasons -- Anderson playing in a better league.

They both are big, tough, strong right handed shot wingers who are late blooming.

They both don't have the greatest fine motor skills, but can shoot and bull their way through people.

I think it's a much more apt comparison than you think. Anderson is faster, but he's the kind of player I see Allison as being in the NHL if it all works out the way it's going.
 

Magua

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I disagree. They both didn't put up points in junior until their 18 year old seasons -- Anderson playing in a better league.

They both are big, tough, strong right handed shot wingers who are late blooming.

They both don't have the greatest fine motor skills, but can shoot and bull their way through people.

I think it's a much more apt comparison than you think. Anderson is faster, but he's the kind of player I see Allison as being in the NHL if it all works out the way it's going.

Anderson put up 49 points in 68 games in his 18 year old season on a powerhouse London team (6th on team); 51 points in 59 games in his 19 year old season (8th); 17 points in 59 games in his 20 year old AHL season.

Allison was playoffs MVP in his 18 year old season and 2nd in regular season scoring on his USHL team; 4th in scoring on his team as a 19 year old in the best conference in college hockey; now 2nd on his team and 10th in college hockey in his age 20 season. Those profiles don't look much alike to me. Josh Anderson was certainly a late bloomer and is a fine player.......but it was at age 22-23, not age 18-19.

I'll mildly criticize his hockey sense, but those tools you describe don't resemble anything I've seen of Allison. He's sleeker and more athletic than Anderson, has a quicker shot, and is a lot more finesse than you're making it out. He's not a bullish brute. All it takes is watching a few highlights to see him dummying people with dangles to see he very much has fine motor skills and skilled hands. I think you're better off comparing Bunnaman to hopefully an Anderson type at a similar stage, though he's not as good a skater.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Anderson put up 49 points in 68 games in his 18 year old season on a powerhouse London team (6th on team); 51 points in 59 games in his 19 year old season (8th); 17 points in 59 games in his 20 year old AHL season.

Allison was playoffs MVP in his 18 year old season and 2nd in regular season scoring on his USHL team; 4th in scoring on his team as a 19 year old in the best conference in college hockey; now 2nd on his team and 10th in college hockey in his age 20 season. Those profiles don't look much alike to me. Josh Anderson was certainly a late bloomer and is a fine player.......but it was at age 22-23, not age 18-19.

I'll mildly criticize his hockey sense, but those tools you describe don't resemble anything I've seen of Allison. He's sleeker and more athletic than Anderson, has a quicker shot, and is a lot more finesse than you're making it out. He's not a bullish brute. All it takes is watching a few highlights to see him dummying people with dangles to see he very much has fine motor skills and skilled hands. I think you're better off comparing Bunnaman to hopefully an Anderson type at a similar stage, though he's not as good a skater.

Magua, I highly respect you, love your well-thought-out posts, and your scouting reports.

But I think you are overrating Allison's fine motor skills as they translate to the professional level.

Good prospects can all pull off dangles against weaker competition. Put Anderson in Allison's places at the same stages, and he's making the same moves. But that's not their games at the professional level.

I think Allison was even quoted this summer at camp as saying something like he didn't think he could have the same offensive game against professional players because of his stickhandling. That's paraphrasing. I'm sure someone knows the actual quote.

The facts remain:
Neither scored much at all in their 17 year old years
At 18, Anderson scored 49 in 68 in the OHL, and Allison scored 47 in 56 in the USHL, a lesser league.
At 19, Anderson scored 51 in 59 in the OHL and made the WJC team. Allison scored 29 in 36 at Western Mich. No WJC.
They are both big, strong, energetic RH wingers whose pro games rely (or will rely) on their size, strength, and shot, not hockey sense, stickhandling, or vision. They are both guys who kept getting better as they got older.
Anderson is now, at 23, putting up 10 goals and 17 total points in 26 games.
You think Allison is better than that? I think what this boils down to is you underrate Anderson.
If Allison becomes Anderson, I'll be ecstatic. My only worry is Anderson is faster, and that could be the slight difference.
 

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