25 teams want equal chance for Crosby

[I in the Eye]

There we go! We can have a lottery for the draft picks and a lottery for playoff spots, maybe a 4 team mini-tournament for the Stanley Cup? Washington and Pittsburgh can have their precious draft weighting, while the spots in the Cup tourney are weighted in favour of Tampa Bay, Detroit, Philadelphia, Vancouver, and so on.

Excellent idea (it's as illogical as holding a draft this year, IMO - but at least the illogical reasoning is consistent)!

Bettman can come up with a weighted formula to determine the teams that are most deserving to be in the Stanley Cup tournament - based on past performance... Obviously though, to be fair, all teams deserve at least a little chance... After all, potentially, any one of them could have been Stanley Cup champions - if a season did exist...

If Bettman wants to be fair, what else can he do? If the bad teams deserve the rewards for being bad (high draft picks), the good teams deserve the rewards for being good (playoff revenue, Stanley Cup, Disney Land, etc.)... All teams are happy! - big and small! And that's what the NHL needs after an extended lockout that pissed off the fans - positive energy amongst the teams, everybody feel good about hockey - the silly, little fans can sense animosity and animosity goes against the new marketing promises - the hard cap fixes all! Of course, the 2004-05 season never happend, but who cares! Bettman is a hockey god, a Wizard of Oz... Armed with the magic of mathmatics, he can predict those teams that are more deserving than others... The 2004-05 season never existed in reality, but so what... In this same time period that the 2004-05 would have happened, the season standings still existed as things - in minds making CBA progress, in equations for Stanley Cup rings...

Of course these team standing equations aren't perfect (be it a weighted lottery or an equal chance lottery) - as nothing can be perfect where nothing exists... And it's, IMO, a waste of time to argue which system is better or more perfect - as to seek a nothing perfection, a perfect nothing is...

As good a way as any is for the owners to play strip poker... IMO, it's just as perfect, and it makes just as much sense...

 

[psycho_dad*]

I'd just like to see him on a team that needs him more than some of the big teams do. He needs to see 1st or 2nd line icetime if we want him to be some sort of "next one" who personally boosts the image of hockey in the U.S. There is no point for him to play a 3rd line center with really limited icetime in some stacked team, that will not help him develop into the superstar and household name everyone wants him to be.

 

[DARKSIDE]

Excuse me, but wasn't the draft lottery instituted in 1995, a full decade after Mario. I guess the league does do things slowly.

Let's have a link to when the lottery was instituted. NBA started in 1985, I believe the NHL followed shortly there after.

 

[signalIInoise]

As good a way as any is for the owners to play strip poker... IMO, it's just as perfect, and it makes just as much sense...

But highly unsavory. If I wanted to see old men in sock garters and wifebeaters, I'd visit my uncle.

 

[CGG]

Let's have a link to when the lottery was instituted. NBA started in 1985, I believe the NHL followed shortly there after.

The very first lottery was won by Los Angeles when they picked Aki Berg 3rd overall, going into the lottery with the #7 pick. 1995, I believe. It wasn't put in immediately after Pittsburgh tanked to get Lemieux, it was done after accusations that San Jose and Ottawa were both tanking to get.... wait for it.... Alexandre Daigle. 1993. If Ottawa did wrong, they were punished enough by getting Daigle. San Jose did no better with Pat Falloon.

LA would have been better off keeping the 7th pick that year, which turned out to be Shane Doan.

 

[Bruins4Ever]

Sure. Why not basically just include the top 8 that had near over 100 points last season and year in year out near or at the top or just loaded (TB, Calgary an example of just getting there recently but loaded teams). Same critereon, reversed for the bottom.

Top:

Toronto, TB, Detroit, Philly, Colorado, Vancouver, Dallas, Ottawa

You missed Boston.

 

[DARKSIDE]

The very first lottery was won by Los Angeles when they picked Aki Berg 3rd overall, going into the lottery with the #7 pick. 1995, I believe. It wasn't put in immediately after Pittsburgh tanked to get Lemieux, it was done after accusations that San Jose and Ottawa were both tanking to get.... wait for it.... Alexandre Daigle. 1993. If Ottawa did wrong, they were punished enough by getting Daigle. San Jose did no better with Pat Falloon.

LA would have been better off keeping the 7th pick that year, which turned out to be Shane Doan.

My mistake! Thank you.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If 30 balls in the bin, one per team, is a way to increase the willingness of some owners to have more revenue-sharing in the next CBA, then I'm all for it. More revenue-sharing could mean we'd be that much closer to ending this stalemate.

Perhaps there is no correlation between the draft lottery and revenue-sharing, but I believe there could be.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Big arguments over the right to draft a prospect,there was no season,there was no best or worst team period. throw 30 balls in a lottery machine and be done with it.

It's the only way to keep everyone almost happy.

Here's an even better idea: throw 20-24 balls in the lottery machine and throw 6-10 teams that can't cut it financially to the Wolves.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Here's an even better idea: throw 20-24 balls in the lottery machine and throw 6-10 teams that can't cut it financially to the Wolves.

You can always tell whether people feel an argument is going their way or not by how pissed off their responses seem. Kind of reflects that poll that I put up where there was significant numbers voting and by a two to one margin no matter what people believed 'should' be done, people believed that a weighted lottery 'would' be done. Deep down I think that you believe that too. Otherwise why the crack at cutting 6 - 10 teams to help . . . ummm . . . 'prove' your points about the wonders and beauty of an equal draft for all?

 

[NYIsles1*]

Here's an even better idea: throw 20-24 balls in the lottery machine and throw 6-10 teams that can't cut it financially to the Wolves.

Here's the best idea: Take the 6-8 teams teams that can't manage themselves without a checkbook or could not generate any attention for the league no matter who they signed (while losing revenue to do so) and drove the game to a lockout to the Wolves.

Let's also send the Leafs to the Wolves because for the 14.4 million Forbes claimed as their profit it's not worth it for this business for all that overspending they had to do to ice a competitive team.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

I want a healthy league that is prosperous. There are 6-10 too many teams and they have nearly killed the league. This lockout was all about trying to save those unworthy of saving. The league got a **** deal from NBC. They are about to have ESPN tighten the screws on them. Hockey has failed in the United States. It is time to cut the losses and go back to its core. Only then will it prosper. Sorry to fans in Anaheim, Florida, Pittsburgh, Washington, NY Islanders. You are the weak and it is time for you to go.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Here's the best idea: Take the 6-8 teams teams that can't manage themselves without a checkbook or could not generate any attention for the league no matter who they signed (while losing revenue to do so) and drove the game to a lockout to the Wolves.

Let's also send the Leafs to the Wolves because for the 14.4 million Forbes claimed as their profit it's not worth it for this business for all that overspending they had to do to ice a competitive team.

And the NHL would be dead!

BTW, that 14.4 million is wrong. Quit consulting John Spanos on financial matters.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

You can always tell whether people feel an argument is going their way or not by how pissed off their responses seem.

I am not pissed off. Well a little that I am not watching hockey right now and would love to see those who are responsible pay. They are the weak links and they got to go.

 

[NYIsles1*]

When the Isles had the highest payroll in hockey, the business made money and the sport was very popular with the general public. When the Isles were champions a team relocated to our market based on the Isles success. The year the Isles became champions Espn signed hockey to it's first television contract, unlike today where they want no part of any market or hockey on Espn during the regular season.

The Isles also have a 300m dollar tv contract that runs until 2030. By the time the lockout ends they will be making more than most if not all NHL teams as other teams scramble for revenue from television rights.

I'm sure even some Leaf fans remember how intimidated the Leafs looked and played at Nassau Coliseum in the 2002 playoffs as they went 0-3 in front of crowds that made ACC corporate crowd sound like a church by comparison.

What is it again that the Toronto Maple Leafs Leafs have done for hockey with one of the highest payrolls each year?

That's right, nothing. The sport went into complete obscurity in the US and most folks do not care if it ever returned and it lost so much revenue it had to be shutdown.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

When the Isles had the highest payroll in hockey, the business made money and the sport was very popular with the general public. When the Isles were champions a team relocated to our market based on the Isles success. The year the Isles became champions Espn signed hockey to it's first contract.

The Isles also have a 300m dollar tv contract that runs until 2030. By the time the lockout ends they will be making more than most if not all NHL teams as other teams scramble for revenue from television rights.

The Isles even sold out their building completely this year to see a minor league game.

What is it again that the Toronto Maple Leafs Leafs have done for hockey with one of the highest payrolls each year?

That's right, nothing. The sport went into complete obscurity in the US and most folks do not care if it ever returned and it lost so much revenue it had to be shutdown.

Now I have seen everything! Blaming the Leafs for the failure of the game in the States. You need to get educated son.

The reason the game is on the verge of death is because of the rapid expansion in the 1990s. It isn't the fault of the successful teams (other than their greed which was the responsibility of all 22 owners who wanted their money.) The league has been suffering as the result of the terrible on ice product that is in direct correlation of spreading the talent pool too thin.


EDIT: The Islanders sold out their building for a minor league game? Congratulations. Long Island is now a minor league city and thanks for proving it. The attendance for Isles games is below average and the Nassau County Mausoleum is no longer NHL quality. And if you think the fact that they actually had fans in the seats in 2002 is what caused the Leafs problems in the 3 games there, you don't give that team much credit.

 

[ACC1224]

When the Isles had the highest payroll in hockey, the business made money and the sport was very popular with the general public. When the Isles were champions a team relocated to our market based on the Isles success. The year the Isles became champions Espn signed hockey to it's first television contract, unlike today where they want no part of any market or hockey on Espn during the regular season.

The Isles also have a 300m dollar tv contract that runs until 2030. By the time the lockout ends they will be making more than most if not all NHL teams as other teams scramble for revenue from television rights.

I'm sure even some Leaf fans remember how intimidated the Leafs looked and played at Nassau Coliseum in the 2002 playoffs as they went 0-3 in front of crowds that made ACC corporate crowd sound like a church by comparison.

What is it again that the Toronto Maple Leafs Leafs have done for hockey with one of the highest payrolls each year?

That's right, nothing. The sport went into complete obscurity in the US and most folks do not care if it ever returned and it lost so much revenue it had to be shutdown.

WOW, what's the weather like in your world?

My memory isn't that good. What were the results of the games at the ACC?

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

All he's proven is that the NHL has passed the New York Islanders by. He almost sounded like a Canadiens' fan reliving the past.

BTW, what the Leafs have done is kept the NHL alive and well in Canada and its core.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Now I have seen everything! Blaming the Leafs for the failure of the game in the States. You need to get educated son.

The reason the game is on the verge of death is because of the rapid expansion in the 1990s. It isn't the fault of the successful teams (other than their greed which was the responsibility of all 22 owners who wanted their money.) The league has been suffering as the result of the terrible on ice product that is in direct correlation of spreading the talent pool too thin.

And here I thought that it was the clutching and grabbing that made the sport virtually unwatchable. Silly me. I will grant you that expanding too quickly may have been a factor, too many commentators who make a living writing about the sport have made that observation as a fault of Bettman's, but that is a minor factor in what destroyed the games watchability. So, you cut six teams, distribute mostly more of the same second and third line players among the other teams and the excess goes to the minors. Would the quality of hockey change all that much? Absent rule changes to increase scoring it would make virtually no difference in the world. Mario for instance called this a garage league years before all of the expansion because of the clutching and grabbing that went uncalled for years and nothing has changed.

You want to focus on the aspect of expansion, a relatively minor ill of the game, because deep down you want no changes, you like your advantages, right? Hell, cut out 6-10 teams and you may be able to add two more name players to your team as you outbid everyone else yet again. But it would not solve the NHL's problems, not even a small bit.

 

[mooseOAK*]

What is it again that the Toronto Maple Leafs Leafs have done for hockey with one of the highest payrolls each year?

That's right, nothing. The sport went into complete obscurity in the US and most folks do not care if it ever returned and it lost so much revenue it had to be shutdown.

The Maple Leafs are probably the best road draw in the league, that's something they do for hockey.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

The clutching and grabbing is the result of players with no talent trying to keep those with talent from scoring. When teams have few skill players they resort to defensive schemes and strategies. This goal is to not get scored on. The reason they have few skill players is because the talent pool is diluted to the point where the talent pool is stretched too far. The reason for the diluted talent pool is that there are too many teams. The reason their are too many teams. The reason there are too many teams is because 22 fat cats got greedy and wanted the $500 million that came from expansion fees.

Do you understand now?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The clutching and grabbing is the result of players with no talent trying to keep those with talent from scoring. When teams have few skill players they resort to defensive schemes and strategies. This goal is to not get scored on. The reason they have few skill players is because the talent pool is diluted to the point where the talent pool is stretched too far. The reason for the diluted talent pool is that there are too many teams. The reason their are too many teams. The reason there are too many teams is because 22 fat cats got greedy and wanted the $500 million that came from expansion fees.

Do you understand now?

Clutching and grabbing is more a result of it working to win, and it being allowed. Again, dilution of talent is a problem, but not a major one. Hell, with Europe opening up much more widely since the 'golden' early to mid 90's there may be MORE talent per team than there was back then, despite the expansion. Now cut the condescension if you are able, it does not help your argument or your ability to convince any listeners, especially when it is totally without merit.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Did the Czech Republic, Slovakia and all the republics of the Soviet Union dissolving create a large enough talent pool to fill 9 teams? No. Enough for 3 maybe but not 9.

OI! Of course clutching and grabbing is done to win! Coaches want to win so they don't get fired, but don't have the talent to do it. The reason they don't have the talent I outline already!

 

[Kritter471]

The Maple Leafs are probably the best road draw in the league, that's something they do for hockey.

Nope, try again.

Best road draws, in terms of filling the building:

Philly, Colorado, Edmonton (someone explain this one to me), Detroit, St. Louis, Anaheim (this one too) then finally Toronto at number 7.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?sort=away_capacity_avg&year=2004

In terms of numbers drawn, the order is Detroit, Colorado, Montreal, NYRangers, Calgary then Toronto at six.

 

[NYIsles1*]

Now I have seen everything! Blaming the Leafs for the failure of the game in the States. You need to get educated son.

Your not doing your homework.

Here is a link to the Leafs operating profit in 2003-04: 14.1 million from Forbes. I did not make up the numbers. Forbes is usually conservative about team losses compared to Levitt and other industry sources.

http://www.forbes.com/home/lists/2004/11/10/04nhland.html

The Leafs were one of the primary teams that drove up contracts which caused other franchises to spend more to keep up. The Wings lost 16.4m, Philadelphia, Colorado, St.Louis, Rangers, Dallas all lost money.

The reason the game is on the verge of death is because of the rapid expansion in the 1990s. It isn't the fault of the successful teams (other than their greed which was the responsibility of all 22 owners who wanted their money.)

Successful. Define successful? No one is making a tangible profit in a US market (outside of Minnesota) and many so-called large markets lose tens of million in modern buildings. These teams all spent more to lose more and in the end no matter who they signed the sports popularity and interest declined and so did the ratings.

The league has been suffering as the result of the terrible on ice product that is in direct correlation of spreading the talent pool too thin.

That's interesting considering all the star veteran free agents usually sign with the same five or six teams because they overpay and yet those markets still did nothing but drive the sport to a work-stoppage and lose money while hockey ratings dropped so far no Network will pay anything of value for the rights.

You could contract to ten teams and all of them will still trap as Canada did in the World Cup. It's now part of the NHL fiber along with players and equipment now too large for the current NHL rinks. Philadelphia, the Rangers and Devils all trapped with a high payroll, the Isle tried to trap also.

EDIT: The Islanders sold out their building for a minor league game? Congratulations.
Long Island is now a minor league city and thanks for proving it.

That's how I proved it? The Isles market sold out a game for a team they hardly knew. Nothing minor league about that kind of hockey or fan support.

The Islanders are a New York area team with a strong city and tri-state area fanbase, always have been and always will be.

Anyone who goes to games at Msg knows it because a solid percentage of the crowds are Isles fans. The Devils sellout few games (too large an arena) but they
always sellout the Islander games in New Jersey because of the Isles fan support in the region.

The attendance for Isles games is below average and the Nassau County Mausoleum is no longer NHL quality.

Isles play close to ninety percent capacity over a full season. In 2001-02 they sold out more than half the games after three owners ran the team on life-support for six years.

Baseball's hold on the public is a big problem in the New York hockey market like no other place in the country, it's an oversaturated sports market and the Rangers have the same problems.

The Isles attendance is also below average because the owner hit the fans with a 125 percent ticket increase over four years because teams like Toronto drive up prices to get free agents to play for the Leafs which drive up ticket prices for all the teams and also drove the business to a lockout. Well done.

And if you think the fact that they actually had fans in the seats in 2002 is what caused the Leafs problems in the 3 games there, you don't give that team much credit.

Isles were a good team that year, not a great team. The point is the New York crowds in the Coliseum made the ACC look like a corporate church by comparison or comparing a Yankee crowd today to a Blue Jays crowd when the chips were down in the playoffs. Media people in Manhattan claimed they never heard a building so loud at a New York sporting event.