2023-24 Frank J. Selke Trophy finalists: Aleksander Barkov, Auston Matthews, Jordan Staal | Winner: Aleksander Barkov

[Voight]

It’s Barkov’s win. Pretty easily.

The other two are two sides of the same coin. Matthews is elite offensively, while being pretty good defensively. Staal is elite defensively, while being pretty good offensively.

Ehh pretty good offensively is a stretch for a guy his hit 50 points once in his career and hasn't hit 40 points in 6 years.

I agree 100% hes elite defensively.

No, I'd just like to give it to players who are actually excellent both ways. Not superstars Toronto media wants to slobber over with votes for random awards they don't qualify for.

Dear Toronto Writers: just because you keep preaching a lie doesn't mean it will ever become true. EVERYONE outside the TOR media can smell the BS you are constantly trying to shove down our throats.

You do realize media members from across the league vote for these things right?

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

One of them scored 69 goals and has won multiple rockets

Correct you knew who I was talking about, but he’s done nothing to warrant a Selke nomination let alone winning it.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Maybe the writers all got together and decided to spice things up a bit.

"Look guys, we all know Barkov is winning this thing. How do we keep things interesting?"

"Let's nominate a guy who deserved multiple nominations in the past but never got them during one of his worst seasons, and a Maple Leaf"

"Brilliant!"

 

[johnnybbadd]

Clearly most people on here don’t watch Matthews.

If anything it’s laughable it took this long to be recognized

It’s the other way around for the majority of people actually. Most people that watch Matthews don’t watch anyone else. Leafs were a bottom half of the league team defensively this year. No one deserves to be a Selke finalist on their team.

 

[oobga]

Points + takeaways is an easy way to add a pick for the Selke for the lazy voters. What's up with Malkin's takeaway/giveaway ratio. Gotta give him a Selke vote next year!

Quick nhl.com sort of penalty minutes for top 20 scorers for the Byng.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Maybe the writers all got together and decided to spice things up a bit.

"Look guys, we all know Barkov is winning this thing. How do we keep things interesting?"

"Let's nominate a guy who deserved multiple nominations in the past but never got them during one of his worst seasons, and a Maple Leaf"

"Brilliant!"

Staal has obviously had some beastly (even many) Selke worthy seasons... this wasn't one of them.

Every year, the sports media experts expose themselves as to how lazy and stupid they are.

 

[pcruz]

When was the last time a team had two different Selke nominees in back-to-back years? Dats and Zetterberg?


Having two elite defensive performers in Matthews and Marner, you'd think the Leafs would do better than... 19th in GA.

Helps if you have a bit better than sub-.900 save %.


Maybe....who knows if goaltending being garbage has a negative effect on your goals against numbers? Quite literally, nobody in history!

Why?


He got the assist on the goal.

Assists don't matter.

Well, sometimes they're more vital than goals, but sometimes they don't matter.

Depends on the argument the person is trying to make....


It's just as consistent a position as NHL officiating criteria.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Love it. You reply to my post of questions and leaf hating laughter with another question based solely on leafs hate

Strong answer bud lol


Actually saw that and it seemed interesting, borderline cherry picking so I’ll add other stats that may play a part.

Again…I’d like to know what the writers use to come up with their votes.

The rankings of 1st,2nd,3rd are among the 3 nominees if anyone is wondering

Barkov

Hits/60 4.35. 2nd

Blocks/60 2.09 2nd

Giveaways/60 1.29 1st

Takeaways/60 2.55 2nd

Shorthanded TOI/GP 1:59 2nd

On ice E/S GA 35 1st

On ice E/S Goal differential 37 1st

Face Off Win% 56% 2nd



Matthews

Hits/60 3.14 3rd

Blocks/60 3.28 1st

Giveaways/60 1.90 3rd

Takeaways/60 3.00 1st

Shorthanded TOI/GP 0:43 3rd

On ice E/S GA 71 3rd

On ice E/S Goal differential 34 2nd

Face Off Win% 52% 3rd


Staal

Hits/60 6.92 1st

Blocks/60 1.99 3rd

Giveaways/60 1.36 2nd

Takeaways/60 1.21 3rd

Shorthanded TOI/GP 2:07 1st

On ice E/S GA 54 2nd

On ice E/S Goal differential -17 3rd

Face Off Win% 59% 1st


If you think how offensive the forward is plays a part here you go. If you don’t…ignore

Barkov 23g,57a,100pts +33 (72 gp)
Matthews 69g,38a,107pts +31 (81 gp)
Staal 10g,20a,30pts -14 (80 gp)


Barkov is a landslide winner if it’s based on this stuff imo

I’m biased but I’d expect 2nd place voting for matthews. Staals E/S goal differential is awful

A lot of those aren't "defensive" stats, though. No one has ever said so and so is a great defensive forward because he hits a lot. And blocked shots isn't exactly a huge defensive stat, either, since there's the idea that a player that blocks a lot of shots has to do so because he didn't prevent the play from getting to the point the opposition can take a shot (ie. Kris Russell having the NHL record for most blocked shots, but not someone you'd ever think of as "best defensive defenseman ever").

The key areas, for me, that Staal is superior is in the defensive usage (which will greatly impact actual goals against) and his xGA stat. Staal performs equal or better to Matthews, but does so while getting much, much harder defensive minutes.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ehh pretty good offensively is a stretch for a guy his hit 50 points once in his career and hasn't hit 40 points in 6 years.

I agree 100% hes elite defensively.





You do realize media members from across the league vote for these things right?

The same PHWA voters vote on the
Hart Memorial Trophy unbiased this year,
James Norris Memorial Trophy unbiased this year,
Calder Memorial Trophy unbiased this year
Frank J. Selke Trophy biased this year,
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy biased this year,
Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy unbiased this year
It just takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics and a level of delusion - usually applied to Maple Leafs fans to make the logic work.

 

[HockeyVirus]

So many folks do not watch the Leafs.

Matthews nearly scored 70 goals while being a Selke finalist. Should win the Hart but won't. Oh well. Happy he is a Leaf

 

[Leaf Fans]

Correct you knew who I was talking about, but he’s done nothing to warrant a Selke nomination let alone winning it.

But yet, got a nomination by the PHWA,.

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

But yet, got has a nomination by the PHWA,.

So did Marner, it’s wild how a team with not one but two selke candidates has such a hard time closing it out in the playoffs. Those are usually pretty reliable assets given what the award has morphed in to.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So did Marner, it’s wild how a team with not one but two selke candidates has such a hard time closing it out in the playoffs. Those are usually pretty reliable assets given what the award has morphed in to.

Yeah, usually. The Leafs have been trying to address that for years. They still haven't been good enough. Maybe it is time to change the core. One of sports ironies.

 

[lionsDen]

We all know how the nhl works, gotta give a consolation prize to toronto

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

Yeah, usually. The Leafs have been trying to address that for years. They still haven't been good enough. Maybe it is time to change the core. One of sports ironies.

Yeah certainly Toronto media and fans don’t over inflate their players heads to the point they think their gods at least. Oh wait.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah certainly Toronto media and fans don’t over inflate their players heads to the point they think their gods at least. Oh wait.

Some do. In fact, since you brought it up. In the exit interviews, Mitch Marner was asked about what it was like playing playing for the Leafs and he responded that it means the world to him and that Leaf players are kinda like gods here. I think it was a poor choice of words, but many of fans do hold the players in very high esteem, and they will also turn on the players as well. Toronto media does have voters in the PHWA who vote on the trophy winners as do media across Canada and the United States.

 

[Leaf Fans]

We all know how the nhl works, gotta give a consolation prize to toronto

Playing the victim - another thing that is often applied to Maple Leaf fans.

 

[v00d00daddy]

A lot of those aren't "defensive" stats, though. No one has ever said so and so is a great defensive forward because he hits a lot. And blocked shots isn't exactly a huge defensive stat, either, since there's the idea that a player that blocks a lot of shots has to do so because he didn't prevent the play from getting to the point the opposition can take a shot (ie. Kris Russell having the NHL record for most blocked shots, but not someone you'd ever think of as "best defensive defenseman ever").

The key areas, for me, that Staal is superior is in the defensive usage (which will greatly impact actual goals against) and his xGA stat. Staal performs equal or better to Matthews, but does so while getting much, much harder defensive minutes.

I don’t know advanced stats but I’ll take your word for it.

I disagree on the hits and blocks. That’s fine.

But what about staal having a terrible season points wise? Im sure if we looked at forwards with that little in offensive input we can use the defensive play analytics of forwards and have a lot of similar options.

And what about staals negative stats that I posted?

Anyways…we’re talking about a battle for a distant 2nd place.

Barkov is by far the best of the 3 when we’re talking about defensive forwards.

 

[Voight]

The same PHWA voters vote on the
Hart Memorial Trophy unbiased this year,
James Norris Memorial Trophy unbiased this year,
Calder Memorial Trophy unbiased this year
Frank J. Selke Trophy biased this year,
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy biased this year,
Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy unbiased this year
It just takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics and a level of delusion - usually applied to Maple Leafs fans to make the logic work.

It's like when people try and pull the "Toronto media is the reason why Matthews won the Hart" card... even though he also won the Lindsay, the award voted on by the players.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It's like when people try and pull the "Toronto media is the reason why Matthews won the Hart" card... even though he also won the Lindsay, the award voted on by the players.

Also when the votes were made public the Toronto media didn't overwhelmingly vote for Matthews. It is just that some people whine when there is anything positive about the Leafs. That being said there are very few that actually think that Matthews will win it ( though it would be a pleasant surprise). It is the notion that he would even be nominated that has irked the chronic whiners.

 

[Voight]

Correct you knew who I was talking about, but he’s done nothing to warrant a Selke nomination let alone winning it.

FWIW he was 14th in Selke voting last year and 10th the year before, so clearly hes become one of the better two-way players in the league.

(I dont have na opinion either way when it comes to his nomination being warranted, but I dont think its some travesty)

Also when the votes were made public the Toronto media didn't overwhelmingly vote for Matthews. It is just that some people whine when there is anything positive about the Leafs. That being said there are very few that actually think that Matthews will win it ( though it would be a pleasant surprise). It is the notion that he would even be nominated that has irked the chronic whiners.

83% of the vote, 119 first place votes vs McDavids 56%, 29 first place votes... there's a good chunk of hockey media members based in Toronto but not enough for that kind of gap even if all of them had Matthews at the top of their ballots

 

[oobga]

Imagine having the 10th worst PK in the league, and you aren't even trying to play one of the 3 best defensive forwards in the entire NHL on it? Grounds for coach being fired IMO, being that clueless.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Imagine having the 10th worst PK in the league, and you aren't even trying to play one of the 3 best defensive forwards in the entire NHL on it? Grounds for coach being fired IMO, being that clueless.

The coach might be fired.

 

[lionsDen]

Also when the votes were made public the Toronto media didn't overwhelmingly vote for Matthews. It is just that some people whine when there is anything positive about the Leafs. That being said there are very few that actually think that Matthews will win it ( though it would be a pleasant surprise). It is the notion that he would even be nominated that has irked the chronic whiners.

what made Mathew’s worthy in your eyes? I wouldn’t consider myself a chronic whiner, I’m just not even seeing it. I don’t have a dog in this fight.

 

[Leaf Fans]

what made Mathew’s worthy in your eyes? I wouldn’t consider myself a chronic whiner, I’m just not even seeing it. I don’t have a dog in this fight.

His excellent defensive play throughout the season. Same as the other finalist. In fact likely the top 10 are all very good -excellent two way players.