Prospect Info: 2021 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #3

[JimEIV]

It's not bias at all, Coleman was 23 for nearly the entire season when he did that. His age cohort had been pros for several years at that point. If you look over that list of big scorers, almost none of them close to Coleman's age cohort are excelling in the NHL right now - you've got Zach Hyman and that is it, and even Hyman is 8 months younger. Almost everyone else on that list is at least a full year younger. Trevor Moore is 3 1/2 years younger.

But it wouldn't be a Jim post without something wrong - there were 18 players I counted wth 20 or more goals in D1 who averaged a PPG or more. In addition, Blandisi was signed by Lou in January of 2015, he was not something that 'Shero touched'.

My second count I got 19 --- Kind of funny to correct me for a miscount with a miscount of your own... But you can't help yourself from being douchey.

Jack Eichel, Fr, F, BU	26	1.775
Jimmy Vesey, Jr, F, HAR	32	1.5676
Evan Rodrigues, Sr, F, BU	21	1.4878
Zach Hyman, Sr, F, MIC	22	1.4595
Matt Garbowsky, Sr, F, RIT	26	1.35
Daniel Ciampini, Sr, F, UNI	26	1.2821
Danny O'Regan, Jr, F, BU	23	1.2195
Brad McGowan, Sr, F, RIT	23	1.2105
Cody Wydo, Sr, F, RMU	20	1.1622
Andrew Gladiuk, Jr, F, BEN	20	1.1351
Trevor Moore, So, F, DEN	22	1.1282
Cole Gunner, Sr, F, AFA	21	1.122
Tanner Kero, Sr, F, MTU	20	1.122
Casey Bailey, Jr, F, PSU	22	1.0811
Ralph Cuddemi, Jr, F, CNS	22	1.0541
Riley Barber, Jr, F, MIA	20	1.0526
Kyle Rau, Sr, F, MIN	20	1.0513
Sam Anas, So, F, QUI	23	1.0263
Blake Coleman, Sr, F, MIA	20	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Triumph]

My second count I got 19 --- Kind of funny to correct me for a miscount with a miscount of your own... But you can't help yourself from being douchey.

Jack Eichel, Fr, F, BU	26	1.775
Jimmy Vesey, Jr, F, HAR	32	1.5676
Evan Rodrigues, Sr, F, BU	21	1.4878
Zach Hyman, Sr, F, MIC	22	1.4595
Matt Garbowsky, Sr, F, RIT	26	1.35
Daniel Ciampini, Sr, F, UNI	26	1.2821
Danny O'Regan, Jr, F, BU	23	1.2195
Brad McGowan, Sr, F, RIT	23	1.2105
Cody Wydo, Sr, F, RMU	20	1.1622
Andrew Gladiuk, Jr, F, BEN	20	1.1351
Trevor Moore, So, F, DEN	22	1.1282
Cole Gunner, Sr, F, AFA	21	1.122
Tanner Kero, Sr, F, MTU	20	1.122
Casey Bailey, Jr, F, PSU	22	1.0811
Ralph Cuddemi, Jr, F, CNS	22	1.0541
Riley Barber, Jr, F, MIA	20	1.0526
Kyle Rau, Sr, F, MIN	20	1.0513
Sam Anas, So, F, QUI	23	1.0263
Blake Coleman, Sr, F, MIA	20	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Fine, 18 players and Coleman. Posting this list does not augment your point - most of these players are not NHLers. Vesey, Rodrigues, and Kero are fringe guys, Moore seems to have established himself (but again, he was born in 1995), Hyman's a solid 2nd liner, Eichel was 13 when Coleman was first eligible for the draft, and that's about it.

I note that you couldn't help yourself from not bolding the point about Blandisi - almost everyone who voted in that poll at that time would've remembered that Blandisi was not signed by Shero.

 

[JimEIV]

Fine, 18 players and Coleman. Posting this list does not augment your point - most of these players are not NHLers. Vesey, Rodrigues, and Kero are fringe guys, Moore seems to have established himself (but again, he was born in 1995), Hyman's a solid 2nd liner, Eichel was 13 when Coleman was first eligible for the draft, and that's about it.

I note that you couldn't help yourself from not bolding the point about Blandisi - almost everyone who voted in that poll at that time would've remembered that Blandisi was not signed by Shero.

On Blandisi that is Not true at all -- Not even in the least bit...

In fact, I remember correcting people on that on many occasions and being forced to dig up the article where Blandisi said being invited to tour the arena and meeting with Lou was the main reason he signed. Similar for Kalinin, Speers, Zacha, Wood and Santini...When Shero signed Wood and Santini out of BC it appeared a lot of people want to give Shero the credit for these players at the time. People like to put together large list of younger players saying look how it is all changing with 50 to 75% of the players from Lou era.

 

[Triumph]

On Blandisi that is Not true at all -- Not even in the least bit...

In fact, I remember correcting people on that on many occasions and being forced to dig up the article where Blandisi said being invited to tour the arena and meeting with Lou was the main reason he signed. Similar for Kalinin, Speers, Zacha, Wood and Santini...When Shero signed Wood and Santini out of BC it appeared a lot of people want to give Shero the credit for these players at the time.

So you can remember correcting people all the time on that particular point but couldn't remember it for the original post you made about Blandisi. That's not a bad faith argument in the slightest. Not only that, I don't buy it - that poll was made in late 2016 and Blandisi signed in early 2015. Almost nothing in the organization was Shero's at that point.

EDIT - the reason he signed is because the Devils had absolutely nothing at forward prospect-wise and the Devils were willing to take off a year of his ELC right away, which I believe meant he was getting paid an AHL salary to play junior.

 

[JimEIV]

So you can remember correcting people all the time on that particular point but couldn't remember it for the original post you made about Blandisi. That's not a bad faith argument in the slightest. Not only that, I don't buy it - that poll was made in late 2016 and Blandisi signed in early 2015. Almost nothing in the organization was Shero's at that point.

EDIT - the reason he signed is because the Devils had absolutely nothing at forward prospect-wise and the Devils were willing to take off a year of his ELC right away, which I believe meant he was getting paid an AHL salary to play junior.

Why do you always do this? Seriously...The original point was these list are bullshit...In 2015 Coleman wasn't even in our top 18...

Then you spin, twist and turn minutia like 16, 17 or 19 players over 20 goals and ppg in the NCAA to take the conversation down a rabbit hole.

The topic was how the f*** do you miss Coleman on a list and you brought it down to Blandisi's ELC?

How? Why?

 

[MartyOwns]

You know what really hurts? Five years ago we were looking at this list, comparing it to the 2011 prospect list, and saying "look how far we've come in five years!"

you know what really, really hurts? we would have been absolutely right. that's how shit we were. if you're starving to death and somebody gives you a sandwich from arby's, it's going to be the most delicious thing you ever ate.

 

[Darkauron]

you know what really, really hurts? we would have been absolutely right. that's how shit we were. if you're starving to death and somebody gives you a sandwich from arby's, it's going to be the most delicious thing you ever ate.

Ive never had anything good from Arby's too. Always trash

 

[MartyOwns]

Ive never had anything good from Arby's too. Always trash

oh, you gotta try it once. you won't believe what that stuff does to your anus

 

[Guttersniped]

Coleman was 24 years and 7 months old July 1st 2016 and had played 14 AHL games.

With Lappin, people might have been more excited about NCAA FA the team signed in 2016 over a guy drafted in the 3rd round in 2011 who was a year older. It happens (with Lappin).

You were into Coleman partly because you had seen him play. And it becomes debatable for some if a player is even a prospect at that late age, though Coleman still was on the second year of his ELC in 2016-17 and waiver exempt so I would have considered him a prospect.

 

[goonybird]

bring back Reid Boucher!!!

 

[JimEIV]

Coleman was 24 years and 7 months old July 1st 2016 and had played 14 AHL games.

With Lappin, people might have been more excited about NCAA FA the team signed in 2016 over a guy drafted in the 3rd round in 2011 who was a year older. It happens (with Lappin).

You were into Coleman partly because you had seen him play. And it becomes debatable for some if a player is even a prospect at that late age, though Coleman still was on the second year of his ELC in 2016-17 and waiver exempt so I would have considered him a prospect.

This list is 2015...When our 2015 list was made I am assuming it was preseason 2015-16. - This list was made before he played those 14 AHL games (entirely at the age of 23 years old) before he suffered a shoulder injury ending his season.

And I thought waiver eligibility was the determining factor according you and the other guy? Coleman was 23 years old, fresh out of college having just singed his ELC when that list was made.

 

[Triumph]

Why do you always do this? Seriously...The original point was these list are bullshit...In 2015 Coleman wasn't even in our top 18...

Then you spin, twist and turn minutia like 16, 17 or 19 players over 20 goals and ppg in the NCAA to take the conversation down a rabbit hole.

The topic was how the f*** do miss Coleman on a list and you brought it down to Blandisi's ELC?

How? Why?

Because you can't be bothered to get stuff right when you post. You are constantly shifting goalposts and making bad-faith arguments, like this Blandisi one here.

But I will agree that Coleman should've been on that list somewhere. In Lou We Trust had him 24th on their 25 players under 25 list, and that would've included players who were not considered HF prospects at that point like e.g. Gelinas and Merrill.

This list is 2015...When our 2015 list was made I am assuming it was preseason 2015-16. - This list was made before he played those 14 AHL games (entirely at the age of 23 years old) before he suffered a shoulder injury ending his season.

And I thought waiver eligibility was the determining factor according you and the other guy? Coleman was 23 years old, fresh out of college having just singed his ELC when that list was made.

This 2015 list with McLeod and Rykov on it, even though these players had not been drafted. Again, just get stuff right. That's why Coleman isn't on the list, he missed the entire season.

 

[Guttersniped]

This list is 2015...When our 2015 list was made I am assuming it was preseason 2015-16. - This list was made before he played those 14 AHL games (entirely at the age of 23 years old) before he suffered a shoulder injury ending his season.

And I thought waiver eligibility was the determining factor according you and the other guy? Coleman was 23 years old, fresh out of college having just singed his ELC when that list was made.

McLeod is the 2nd player on the list so it’s after the 2016 draft, Coleman was born on November 28th, 1991 and has been 24 years for a while.

If you notice there are different players listed behind each player, I’m assuming those are the name of each player who had that spot in the 2015 poll. Check out who is listed at 7th (I’ll give you a hint, his name is Blake Coleman.)

I don’t blame you for not making all that out, the formatting makes my head spin it’s so hard to read.

And in the post you are responding to I literally said “And it becomes debatable for some if a player is even a prospect at that late age, though Coleman still was on the second year of his ELC in 2016-17 and waiver exempt so I would have considered him a prospect.”

So, yes, it’s a determining factor for me (because I care about team control) but I’m a just a random fan, don’t cover prospects for a living and don’t make the rules. What “prospect” means is subjective and 23 years is a common cutoff point.

Scott Wheeler’s prospect list in The Athletic has “under 23 as of Jan 1st” as a cutoff point. Corey Pronman had a cutoff of 22 years or younger as of Sept 20 for prospects for his organizational ranking (young players for that were any non-rookies under 26). Those are just two examples, it’s not that strange, sometimes people simply don’t focus on older prospects because a late success like Coleman, a winger developing into a difference maker after 25, is extraordinarily rare. With older prospects you’re typically dealing with potential NHL depth guys. (I don’t particularly support the age cutoff, but again, I don’t make the rules.)

 

[JimEIV]

Because you can't be bothered to get stuff right when you post. You are constantly shifting goalposts and making bad-faith arguments, like this Blandisi one here.

What goal posts? You do this all time...

You hone in on things that are ancillary to the topic and try to make it the topic. It's bizarre. You do it all the time not with just me.

 

[Triumph]

What goal posts? You do this all time...

You hone in on things that are ancillary to the topic and try to make it the topic. It's bizarre. You do it all the time not with just me.

In this discussion, you have

A: posted the wrong list of prospects (you used 2016 when you want to use 2015)
B: gotten the list of players who had more points than Blake Coleman in his senior year of the NCAA wrong
C: cited the wrong logic for Blandisi fandom among Devils HF fans

I'm not trying to make it the topic - you've made it the topic by posting incorrect stuff. And when it's the center of your argument about bias, it matters when you get the year wrong - as Guttersniped said, Coleman was 7th on the prospect list after his senior year of college.

 

[JimEIV]

In this discussion, you have

A: posted the wrong list of prospects (you used 2016 when you want to use 2015)
B: gotten the list of players who had more points than Blake Coleman in his senior year of the NCAA wrong
C: cited the wrong logic for Blandisi fandom among Devils HF fans

I'm not trying to make it the topic - you've made it the topic by posting incorrect stuff. And when it's the center of your argument about bias, it matters when you get the year wrong - as Guttersniped said, Coleman was 7th on the prospect list after his senior year of college.

A. I did not post any list of prospects from any year. Someone else did.

B. I miscounted the number as did you...all completely irrelevant to the conversation.

C. "Cited the wrong logic for Blandisi fandom". Wtf does this even mean? This is just bizarre shit right here. Seriously it is frighteningly weird.

 

[Devils731]

A. I did not post any list of prospects from any year. Someone else did.

B. I miscounted the number as did you...all completely irrelevant to the conversation.

C. "Cited the wrong logic for Blandisi fandom". Wtf does this even mean? This is just bizarre shit right here. Seriously it is frighteningly weird.

There can’t be discussion unless everyone gets on the same page for facts. Pointing out all the facts you’ve been incorrect on in just this thread is just to level set.

Your argument that everyone has bias against Coleman should have turned around when it was stated he was #7 the year before. That so obviously shows people were willing to consider Coleman that it’s blatant on its face. Everything else is really just you trying to spin the discussion into the minutiae that you claim to be fighting against.

 

[Triumph]

A. I did not post any list of prospects from any year. Someone else did.

Fine, you looked at a list of players with Michael McLeod on it and thought it was from 2015. Either way, you were mistaken.

B. I miscounted the number as did you...all completely irrelevant to the conversation.

You constantly get the little details wrong. Why is that?

C. "Cited the wrong logic for Blandisi fandom". Wtf does this even mean? This is just bizarre shit right here. Seriously it is frighteningly weird.

You said people loved Blandisi because he was associated with Shero, but Lou clearly signed him. The truth is that Blandisi looked really good when he was called up in 2015-16 - he faded late in that season - and people liking him had nothing at all to do with Shero.

 

[MartyOwns]

the sexual tension between you two is off the charts. i say you just **** each other and get it over with

 

[Guttersniped]

There can’t be discussion unless everyone gets on the same page for facts. Pointing out all the facts you’ve been incorrect on in just this thread is just to level set.

Your argument that everyone has bias against Coleman should have turned around when it was stated he was #7 the year before. That so obviously shows people were willing to consider Coleman that it’s blatant on its face. Everything else is really just you trying to spin the discussion into the minutiae that you claim to be fighting against.

It’s not a discussion if what other people say is not acknowledged in any positive or truthful way. I’m not even sure exactly what the whole debate is about, but I get why Coleman dropped out of the 2016 list after having a season derailed by injury.

These are polls, I’m sure he got votes, but he was a 24 year old AHL winger coming off of shoulder surgery. Lappin was a year younger with very similar statistics and was the new shiny toy.

But it’s argument, not a discussion, if someone isn’t going to respond in good faith to a point someone else makes and not acknowledge key factual errors.

 

[Guadana]

Guadana, perhaps not having not recovered over the disappointment of getting loosey goosey Luke over a steadier more defensive-minded dman has has fled to steady strong charms of Team Okhotiuk.

Luke is my numero dos. I`m not so high about Holtz for now. And I really like how Okhotyuk works in puck battles and his speed.