World Cup: 2018 WC Qualifiers Part II

[Evilo]

Yes, Domenech managed to f*** up. That's exactly what I'm saying. He's bad. He was always bad and tactically inept. But the players coached themselves in the WC.
When they weren't properly motivated and with their heads on their shoulders, they crashed. See Euro 04.
France won EC 00 with fantastic football. Same coach crashed in the first round of the 02 WC with one of the best rosters ever. Not a single goal scored. Players just weren't making the efforts.

 

[Live in the Now]

Look at the qualifiers and look at the games in context. Messi literally carried them their and once, they played a half decent team Argentina got exposed. Otamendi was left dizzy and I remember him playing Gutierrez out of position with hilarious results.

Germany was a lot better than half decent though. He was also obsessed with Maxi Rodriguez, but Maxi was in great form at that time and over the course of the following season. He wasn't a good coach but I don't think he had anything to do with them losing.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Germany was a lot better than half decent though. He was also obsessed with Maxi Rodriguez, but Maxi was in great form at that time and over the course of the following season. He wasn't a good coach but I don't think he had anything to do with them losing.

Nah, he's the exact reason why they lost like they way they did. I'm pretty amazed we're having this conversation TBH.

2010 WC qualifiers Argentina needed a miracle on the last day and in ET from Palermo of all people to get them to WC.

2014 under a real coach they sit on top of the table and qualify with ease.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Yes, Domenech managed to **** up. That's exactly what I'm saying. He's bad. He was always bad and tactically inept. But the players coached themselves in the WC.
When they weren't properly motivated and with their heads on their shoulders, they crashed. See Euro 04.
France won EC 00 with fantastic football. Same coach crashed in the first round of the 02 WC with one of the best rosters ever. Not a single goal scored. Players just weren't making the efforts.

Or lost motivation and the coach failed to motivate them? So, coaching does matter.

 

[Evilo]

Did you read what I wrote?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Did you read what I wrote?

You said the players lost motivation... but it's also a coach's job to motivate them. So, yes a coach matters in the NT. no?

Also not even sure how one can say the players coached themselves without actually being in the locker room. But w.e.

 

[Evilo]

I said a NT coach isn't of much use tactically, but is rather a motivator and player selector. Read the damn thread.

As for the 06 cup, it was reported all along.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Coaches at the NT matter, and can derail a cup run or worse. England need to be revolutionized, mentality wise and tactics as well.

Poch should just manage both Spurs and England. He has so many current and former players in that squad anyway. His system would work out fine too I bet. Althought I know that plenty of pundits would whine about him being foreign lmao.

 

[cgf]

When people talk about England always being a failure I can't help but think of the book Soccernomics. The authors actually make a very good case that given the nation's population and geographical size England actually punch above their weight in international competition. Was actually an interesting take on the old narative.

Geographical size has infinitely less to do with football infrastructure than money, # & quality of facilities, avg distance between kids & facilities, the quality & structure of youth coaching, the quality of the regional academies scouting & development for the youth NT programs, and countless other things. With England's money, population, football history and infrastructure, there is no argument that they punch above their weight.

Take it from me: a large population, being the richest country on Earth, great stadiums and a (relatively recent) importance on football doesn't get you that far these days :-(

The US doesn't spend a fraction of what Spain / France / Germany spend/have-spent on youth development or have as good of a program for training youth coaches. So the infrastructure isn't there at the same level. The US is playing catch up in a major way. England should be a lot closer to Spain / France / Germany than the US after how long & how much they've spent on that football infrastructure.

 

[YNWA14]

Coaching is incredibly important at every level. End of.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I said a NT coach isn't of much use tactically, but is rather a motivator and player selector. Read the damn thread.

As for the 06 cup, it was reported all along.

My mistake... still not buying tactics aren't important.

Poch should just manage both Spurs and England. He has so many current and former players in that squad anyway. His system would work out fine too I bet. Althought I know that plenty of pundits would whine about him being foreign lmao.

If he ever did that then he should never go back to Argentina.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

If he ever did that then he should never go back to Argentina.

He doesn't seem too fussed about it. From the biography written by Balague:

“If I were to be an international manager one day, I’d relish the opportunity to coach the England national team. I’ve heard that I’ve been considered for the job before but I don’t know if there was any truth in it.”

 

[Deficient Mode]

D2M would have a meltdown if Poch coached England before he coached Argentina

But it's bad to have a coach pulling double duty. National team job should be full-time and the club manager should definitely stay with the club over the international breaks to train with the remaining players.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

D2M would have a meltdown if Poch coached England before he coached Argentina

But it's bad to have a coach pulling double duty. National team job should be full-time and the club manager should definitely stay with the club over the international breaks to train with the remaining players.

It would be the best for England I think, but no way would I want him to do it.

 

[Havre]

Who is not being realistic? Where is anyone calling England favourites of any kind? You're arguing against yourself.

As for Lallana...I'm not sure he really fits into a team playing deep and looking to hit on the counter. He slows down the play too much in possession and isn't very quick getting forward. His passing from deep isn't the greatest. He's a good transition player to link up with other more direct players, he presses extremely well and his link up is good in shorter distances. He can be really streaky in the final third but when he's on he's a big threat there too. That said he would fit in better to a 3-5-2 than a 3-4-3 IMO. He's not much of a wide player. I could see a midfield 3 with Dier/Henderson as the holder behind Lallana and Dele with Chambo as a back-up working really well (assuming Lallana can stay healthy, and comes back strong from his injury). Realistically their best 11, IMO, come the summer would probably be this (IMO):

Pickford
Gomez - Jones - Stones
Walker -------- Dier* -------- Rose
Lallana** - Dele
Sterling
Kane
​

With Sterling and Kane having freedom to roam. Guys like Maguire, Bertrand, Henderson, Chamberlain, Rashford and Sturridge deputizing (*Henderson could start over Dier, **Chamberlain could start over Lallana if he continues to develop).

EDIT: So basically what Havre suggested but I don't think Sterling struggles centrally. He was fantastic there with Liverpool, though that was behind Sturridge/Suarez. He still looked fairly good as the focal point in Rodgers' side the next season playing centrally but his final ball left a lot to be desired. I think playing with Kane and Dele that would be less of an issue.

Valid point about Lallana. A guy like Loftus might develop into the right player for such a team come summer. Henderson could obviously play in such a role. Personally I much prefer him when he is allowed to join the attack. Ox is kind of made for such a role, but something is missing there. Not sure if him being played all over the pitch for Liverpool helps.

 

[Havre]

Not sure if Pochettino is suited to NT at all. In my opinion his biggest weakness is his match management. Very rarely does he successfully change things during a game. He kind of have to get it right from minute 1.

Also think his biggest strength is his interaction with players on a daily basis. He just seems like a very likeable man - which is useful when you are together 365 days a year (almost). Not necessarily equally important for a NT. His style is also very much based on attitude and the mental part of the game. This is something you ingrain slowly over years. More difficult with a NT.

He would probably still do better than Southgate, but not sure if you get the best of Pochettino with a NT.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Not sure if Pochettino is suited to NT at all. In my opinion his biggest weakness is his match management. Very rarely does he successfully change things during a game. He kind of have to get it right from minute 1.

I still think he has some of those tendencies, but he has vastly improved in that aspect this season.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

He doesn't seem too fussed about it. From the biography written by Balague:

“If I were to be an international manager one day, I’d relish the opportunity to coach the England national team. I’ve heard that I’ve been considered for the job before but I don’t know if there was any truth in it.”

He can go f*** off and eat fish/chips every London rainy day then.

D2M would have a meltdown if Poch coached England before he coached Argentina

But it's bad to have a coach pulling double duty. National team job should be full-time and the club manager should definitely stay with the club over the international breaks to train with the remaining players.

Yeah, probably.lol

 

[cgf]

My mistake... still not buying tactics aren't important.



If he ever did that then he should never go back to Argentina.

Jogi has a WC, Beckenbauer "coached" us to a WC, and we 100% won in 96 in spite of the coach. You know how I feel about tactics in football, but NT's don't get to practice week after week to execute modern tactics unless the players have strong mutual understanding from playing together and having experience with similar club systems. This is why so many contenders have gone very far with coaches that were...less than tactically astute.

 

[Tuggy]

Was down the YT rabbit hole and came across this video, nostalgic and fun to watch.

 

[ovikovy817]

Was down the YT rabbit hole and came across this video, nostalgic and fun to watch.

I've watched it too, few days ago.

 

[Corto]

Was down the YT rabbit hole and came across this video, nostalgic and fun to watch.

Lillian Thuram's day out. I'll remember that forever.

 

[HajdukSplit]

Pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things as Nigeria qualified with games to spare which was rare in these African qualifiers, but FIFA awarded Algeria a 3:0 win in their match against Nigeria on the final matchday (it ended 1:1) because Nigeria used a suspended player in the match