Not following. Rubtsov, Abramov, Sokolov are all on the team, and currently playing their club hockey in the CHL.
WJC: 2018 Russia Roster Talk
- Thread starter enj92
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Not following. Rubtsov, Abramov, Sokolov are all on the team, and currently playing their club hockey in the CHL.
Abramov, Sokolov and (to a lesser extent) Rubtsov used to be waaaay better than any other Russian 1998 forward. They were our ‘go to’ guys and dominated for this generation. See the U-17s.
Now these idiots are basically on the same tier as every other 1998 forward on this roster. Solid players but nothing special.
...and they all look worse than they were a couple of years ago at U18 or U17 level. Add Kostin who is in the AHL. That birth year looked really good and those guys were leading the pack. Now they look like none of them is going to be really special except for Svechnikov maybe who is also already way behind expectations. The CHL isn't doing them any good it seems.
I gotcha. I do remember thinking Rubtsov was just dynamite when I saw him with the Moscow Selects and at the World Jr A Classic. There were a few other players on that powerhouse Moscow Selects team that I thought were right there with Rubtsov. Naumenkov, Shabanov and Poluetkov (sp?) were all great. Do you gentlemen know how those players are doing?
Would be nice if they stayed in Russia and continued to play that brand of hockey they grew up playing and thriving at. Agree with you that they seem to have lost some of their mojo since coming over. I remember Sokolov at one time conserved a potential 1st overall pick.
Would be nice if they stayed in Russia and continued to play that brand of hockey they grew up playing and thriving at. Agree with you that they seem to have lost some of their mojo since coming over. I remember Sokolov at one time conserved a potential 1st overall pick.
Went to the game and although I'm happy we won, I'm disappointed with specific players. I was expecting a lot more from Kostin and Svechnikov.. But it was nothing special.
Altybarmakyan impressed me the most with a few nice steals and just overall a solid game. Rubtsov looked decent but not more than that. Of course I don't mean this russian team is super weak in those exact terms, but unlike other years there aren't even any solid KHLers on here.. Nothing like calibre of tarasenko or even korshkov.
There is little creativity too compared to teams of the past.. It's much closer to North American style of hockey not the traditional russian passing game
Altybarmakyan impressed me the most with a few nice steals and just overall a solid game. Rubtsov looked decent but not more than that. Of course I don't mean this russian team is super weak in those exact terms, but unlike other years there aren't even any solid KHLers on here.. Nothing like calibre of tarasenko or even korshkov.
There is little creativity too compared to teams of the past.. It's much closer to North American style of hockey not the traditional russian passing game
I would disagree. If they weren't trying to play in the Russian style, they would be much more pragmatic on the powerplay. Russian hockey isn't in a bubble and it is probably trying to adapt its style and incorporate some of the North American aspects of play. But the goal by Kostin today or by Rubtsov or Kayumov yesterday were very much in the Russian style.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
All the critic on Kostin,Svechnikov,Rubtsov those guys made some points are on + at +/- with their lines. Not like the other two lines. I am impressed by Svechnikov´s passing skills, he look like possible playmaker. Not understand why he have no powerplay time.
The omission of Shvyryov is looking like a big mistake now. Watching Ivanov and Sholokhov centering non-checking lines is making my eyes bleed.
Russia vs. US quarter-finals. This will be a tough matchup but I think our boys can come out on top. We just need to realize more of our opportunities and not take silly penalties.
Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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The biggest disappointment of the tournament so far has been the Maltsev-Altybarmakyan duo. They showed they could create together at the Superseries, so I was expecting a few fireworks. They have not delivered and it doesn't seem they will.
As a result there is no evidence of gamebreaking talent. Abramov is too flaky. Sokolov is fat and unintelligent. Rubtsov can forecheck, but doesn't have the talent to take over a game. Heck, I'd kill to have even someone like Nikita Dvurechensky on this roster. Someone with enough skating skill to win a race for the puck.
In the past you could expect the Russians to surprise teams on the fast break in between periods of bad hockey. There is none of that explosiveness here.
As a result there is no evidence of gamebreaking talent. Abramov is too flaky. Sokolov is fat and unintelligent. Rubtsov can forecheck, but doesn't have the talent to take over a game. Heck, I'd kill to have even someone like Nikita Dvurechensky on this roster. Someone with enough skating skill to win a race for the puck.
In the past you could expect the Russians to surprise teams on the fast break in between periods of bad hockey. There is none of that explosiveness here.
Yep, unfortunately this year there really isn't that shining talent that we're used to seeing. Kostin is the closest thing to Kaprizov last year but he isn't as sharp. I'm hoping for pure grit this year, that is one factor where the team is indeed strong, they've shown they can come back in difficult situations. But I'm still struck by the skating and puck control difficulties in the Russian WJC teams of late. Unfortunately, our boys' skating is not on the same level as that of Sweden, Canada or Finland anymore. Missed passes and puck control mistakes certainly don't help either. The question is, is this a general trend within the Russian hockey system or just probability/genetics?
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I always thought Bragin is a strong coach. But after this tournament I don't think so... He is more motivator rather than the great coach... 90% of this loss is on coaching staff. I hope he didn't ruin Svech psychology. What was the point to give him so little playing time and almost no PP time. He shouldn't be even taking him then... One of the weakest Russian teams in terms of names I can remember as well.
Well...you were surrendering 2.2 cm and 3.6 kilos on average. With skill being equal or forget equal, even relatively comparable, it's hard to expect a significantly better result.
Bragin has never been a great tactician. But at least, in the past, he put players in a position to succeed. For some reason he was unable to do that this year. Horrible line combinations, and absurd ice time allocations was 2/3 of this teams downfall, imo. And add that to a completely dismal and uncreative PP.
I don't think Bragin is to blame here.. In 2011 and 2012 he had a team that could pass and set up nice plays... Even last year!
The problem is the 1998 year.. In fact all years of late 90s look shaky. You throw on top our best talents leaving to NA instead cutting their teeth in KHL and that's the result.
I've had really high hopes for
Abramov.. Remember those hands and agility and creativity.. Where did it go?
Sokolov.. he was never the fastest but man he could stick handle and lay some hits.. Now his skating is painful to watch
Kostin.. Just last year he was beating defensman with a slick move and two strides.. Now he skates slower on the outside
Rubtsov.. He was so creative with Kayumov.. Now you guys are right he just forechecks well
In a time when Russia is regrouping to be more sovereign on all fronts our hockey keeps getting robbed of the little best that we have remaining
The problem is the 1998 year.. In fact all years of late 90s look shaky. You throw on top our best talents leaving to NA instead cutting their teeth in KHL and that's the result.
I've had really high hopes for
Abramov.. Remember those hands and agility and creativity.. Where did it go?
Sokolov.. he was never the fastest but man he could stick handle and lay some hits.. Now his skating is painful to watch
Kostin.. Just last year he was beating defensman with a slick move and two strides.. Now he skates slower on the outside
Rubtsov.. He was so creative with Kayumov.. Now you guys are right he just forechecks well
In a time when Russia is regrouping to be more sovereign on all fronts our hockey keeps getting robbed of the little best that we have remaining
Peter25
Registered User
I agree.
If you want to blame someone then the FHR and Russian hockey in general are to blame. They allowed this situation to emerge where ALL the best players go to Canada at 16-17. This is ruining Russian hockey. Don't blame the kids who go. They are unintelligent and gullible idiots, who listen to their greedy agents and destroy their own hockey careers. It is the adults in Russian hockey who should prevent this from happening. Not the gullible kids.
It appears there are no strong-willed and patriotic adults in the FHR who want to prevent Russian hockey from falling into the level of Switzerland. Because this is where Russian hockey is headed.
The last generation of really good Russian forwards (Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Kucherov) all developed in Russia. The best players of younger age groups all went to Canada, regressed there and have just about disappeared from the map. And I don't even want to talk about defensemen!
The situation will continue to get worse unless something radically changes. It is up to Russians to save their hockey. If they fail to do this they deserve their fate.
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I have the impression that corruption is at play here. Bragin's line and player choices may reflect the wishes of some rich folks from above, especially the St. Petersburg SKA is often criticized for pre-determining the lineup. If this is the case, it could end up ruining Russian hockey for good, unfortunately. As regards Russian players moving to NA, I at first did not think that this would be that bad, seeing as though NA hockey attracts all the best players worldwide anyway. However, it's true that Russian players, once they get there, sort of have to forget the Russian hockey system in their minds and 'start from scratch' - the result could be a strategic confusion in players, where they become uncertain as to what playing style they sould adopt. Or are there other reasons why this move to the NA league is detrimental?
At any rate, I certainly hope that we're not witnessing an utter downfall of Russian hockey. I hope that officials will be found in Russia who really care about the sport and who will be capable to bring Russian hockey back to where it should be.
At any rate, I certainly hope that we're not witnessing an utter downfall of Russian hockey. I hope that officials will be found in Russia who really care about the sport and who will be capable to bring Russian hockey back to where it should be.
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No corruption, it's just Bragin has a specific preference in players and it's not always the most talented ones.
Throw 10 of the top Canadian or American talents and have them ruined or regressed and they will still ice a decent team. Russia needs more depth to the point it won't hurt as much. I agree and always have CHL is not the place for Russians to develop. Get your u18 team back and form another in u17 or u20 or something.
Count me among the group that is throwing a large amount of blame Bragin's way. I have heaped praise on him before as he seemed to be a guy that got a lot of mileage out of his players. He knew when to call a timeout and when to make a goalie switch. I thought he had a good feel for the pulse of a game. This particular tournament has shown me none of that. He continued to stubbornly roll the lines even on the powerplay and make almost no line alterations when things weren't working, which was most of the time. A refusal to put a forward on the point of the powerplay shows a lack of modern tactical thinking. I get that you make yourself a bit more vulnerable to the short handed goal, but the other top teams are giving up maybe one SHG and entering the semis they've scored 6 or 7 PP goals (Canada has 10 already). So how many PP goals does Russia have? ONE! And then there's the whole Svechnikov debacle. When this kid is on the ice Russia seems to score. He actually did have Svechnikov out when the team needed a goal in overtime or when trailing late, and yet somehow he's the only forward who didn't get a regular shift. How can a guy be good enough to be put in key situations, yet simultaneously not good enough to earn a regular shift? It boggles the mind. I understand that Bragin didn't have the most talented roster this year, but from what I saw, he did NOTHING to help it succeed.
Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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Peter25
Registered User
We already are. The downfall is already happening. Question is whether Russia can stop it and reverse the situation. The key is to stop the flow of best junior players to Canada. If Russia fails to do this then it is pretty much over for Russian hockey. Then Russia will not compete for the Gold or even a medal in any major international tournament.
