Speculation: 2018 NHL Draft Talk :)

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Joe McGrath

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Oct 29, 2009
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My point is that I'm not sure what could "force" Francis to make a talent-for-talent trade when our situation to this point hasn't done anything to motivate him. I'd be worried he *still* wouldn't make a trade, even though he now "has" to. But I suspect you got that and decided to take a shot anyhow. No biggie.

You should’ve just said he’d find a way to f*** it up then and not start with I don’t even want the 1st pick in the draft for free.

Edit: if youll notice in another thread I gave you kudos for your Semin take day of contract signing so it’s not about taking a shot at you.
 

CandyCanes

Caniac turned Jerkiac
Jan 8, 2015
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This is pretty eye opening. The Canes have drafted 1 guy under 6ft since Ron Francis has taken over as GM. Size does has it's value in this league, but I think the front office has placed too much value into it, passing up more skilled players recently than I can count in the draft.

Is it a coincidence that our last pick under 6ft, is now our best player? Aka Sebastion Aho. The previous sub 6ft player drafted was Lucas Wallmark. I'd really like to see some late picks used on those guys that absolutely dominated the juniors, but are getting docked because of their size.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
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Dec 14, 2015
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This is pretty eye opening. The Canes have drafted 1 guy under 6ft since Ron Francis has taken over as GM. Size does has it's value in this league, but I think the front office has placed too much value into it, passing up more skilled players recently than I can count in the draft.

Is it a coincidence that our last pick under 6ft, is now our best player? Aka Sebastion Aho. The previous sub 6ft player drafted was Lucas Wallmark. I'd really like to see some late picks used on those guys that absolutely dominated the juniors, but are getting docked because of their size.


New idea: trade for Yzerman.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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I've noted that as well. It's not quite "only Aho". Nedjelkovic and Bishop were both just under 6' tall (according to the draft combine measurements) when drafted as well. I think Zimmer was 5'11" at the time of draft as well.

Still, I think you are right in that they put a premium on size.
 
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A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
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New idea: trade for Yzerman.

I've been thinking can Francis and go after their AGM, Julien Brisebois. He's been mentioned as one of the next up and comers, and if we're lucky, he'd have some of that Yzerman magic. Hell, if people think that Francis is the only person in the world that can teach Dundon about hockey as has been mentioned, just create some position where his only job is to do that. Not like we've never created a position to keep or bring guys in before.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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The Canes currently have 8 forwards in the lineup who are 6’0 and under. **** isn’t working for them is it?

The Jets top 5 scorers are 6’5, 6’5, 6’3, 6’, and 6’1” in that order.

Ehlers was 5'11" when drafted, but that aside, there's no doubt the team needs to get bigger and tougher to play against and Francis has been drafting that way. When you find a guy with size and skill it's a win-win. Still fair to question if Francis sometimes puts too much of an emphasis on size over skill when drafting. Hopefully some of the guys like Necas, Roy, Gauthier (fingers crossed), etc.. turn into something for us.
 

Joe McGrath

Registered User
Oct 29, 2009
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Ehlers was 5'11" when drafted, but that aside, there's no doubt the team needs to get bigger and tougher to play against and Francis has been drafting that way. When you find a guy with size and skill it's a win-win. Still fair to question if Francis sometimes puts too much of an emphasis on size over skill when drafting. Hopefully some of the guys like Necas, Roy, Gauthier (fingers crossed), etc.. turn into something for us.

Yeah he has definitely emphasized size, but Necas was the most skilled player available and Roy was a former 1st overall pick in the Q draft. Gauthier is the obvious chosen for his size guy though. Hopefully they turn into Wheeler-Sceifle-Laine (LOLOLOLOL)
 

RodTheBawd

Registered User
Oct 16, 2013
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"Candy Canes!" "Bunch of smurfs out there!" "No team toughness!"
*Drafts bigger players (which I'd posit is more coincidental than deliberate)...
"Not drafting anyone under 6'!" "Size doesn't matter!"

And besides... is he drafting for a system or for BPA? If the former, would it not make sense to emphasize drafting guys that are tough on the boards and win tons of puck battles?
 

Hulkacaniac

You MUST
Jun 4, 2015
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If you looked at the heights of draft eligible players, I doubt the average height of our drafted players would deviate too much from the overall average. It's not like he's going out of his way to draft Logan stanleys or anything and it's not like he's passed on an obvious pick because a player was short. From what I've gathered it seems Francis believes it's not how big your body is it's how you use it. Aho and Ryan are basically the same size, yet one is drastically more effective than the other.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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You may be right that it probably isn't too far off the distribution of drafted players. Francis has mentioned size and the need to get bigger multiple times for multiple drafts in a row though, so I suspect it's an element that he may weigh more heavily. Not saying it's a bad thing, or a good thing, just an element that I think he puts more stock in. There has been a shift in drafting that I don't think is just coincidence. According to the measurements on the Canes website at the time of the draft:

From 2006 - 2013 when JR was in charge:
Total picks: 49
Total under 6': 13 (26%)

From 2014 - 2017 when Francis was in charge:
Total picks: 33
Total under 6': 3 (9%)

The only 2 times in that 8 year JR stretch the Canes didn't pick a guy under 6' were 2013 and 2009
2013: the team only had 4 picks total and Francis was heavily involved in that draft (maybe even ran it).
2009: the team just got manhandled by Pittsburgh and JR was determined (and publicly stated) to get Bigger and Tougher through the draft if you recall.
 

My Special Purpose

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Apr 8, 2008
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You should’ve just said he’d find a way to **** it up then and not start with I don’t even want the 1st pick in the draft for free.

Edit: if youll notice in another thread I gave you kudos for your Semin take day of contract signing so it’s not about taking a shot at you.

Not to beat this dead horse, but I started that post that way because I wanted to make the joke about LD depth pushing Bean to the ECHL and keeping Ryan pushing Necas and Wallmark to wings. It was the setup for a joke. I'm pretty sure you know that, too.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Yeah he has definitely emphasized size, but Necas was the most skilled player available and Roy was a former 1st overall pick in the Q draft. Gauthier is the obvious chosen for his size guy though. Hopefully they turn into Wheeler-Sceifle-Laine (LOLOLOLOL)
When they drafted Goat the only other guy on the board that was seen to have a similar talent level was DeBrincat and he slipped to the 2nd because of concerns that 1 - he was a product of McDavid in 15 and Strome in 16, and 2 - the fact that he was all of 5'7. In fact we got Goat a bit later then most people expected him to be available (THN had him 16, TSN had him 17).

Hell last year with Necas we got him at #12 when Detroit prioritized size over skill by drafting Rasmussen. I was wanting Tolvanen because I figured Necas would go somewhere around #8.
 

Unsustainable

Bunch of Jerks
Apr 14, 2012
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When they drafted Goat the only other guy on the board that was seen to have a similar talent level was DeBrincat and he slipped to the 2nd because of concerns that 1 - he was a product of McDavid in 15 and Strome in 16, and 2 - the fact that he was all of 5'7. In fact we got Goat a bit later then most people expected him to be available (THN had him 16, TSN had him 17).

Hell last year with Necas we got him at #12 when Detroit prioritized size over skill by drafting Rasmussen. I was wanting Tolvanen because I figured Necas would go somewhere around #8.

Necas is definitely a good pick.
 

RodTheBawd

Registered User
Oct 16, 2013
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You may be right that it probably isn't too far off the distribution of drafted players. Francis has mentioned size and the need to get bigger multiple times for multiple drafts in a row though, so I suspect it's an element that he may weigh more heavily. Not saying it's a bad thing, or a good thing, just an element that I think he puts more stock in. There has been a shift in drafting that I don't think is just coincidence. According to the measurements on the Canes website at the time of the draft:

From 2006 - 2013 when JR was in charge:
Total picks: 49
Total under 6': 13 (26%)

From 2014 - 2017 when Francis was in charge:
Total picks: 33
Total under 6': 3 (9%)

The only 2 times in that 8 year JR stretch the Canes didn't pick a guy under 6' were 2013 and 2009
2013: the team only had 4 picks total and Francis was heavily involved in that draft (maybe even ran it).
2009: the team just got manhandled by Pittsburgh and JR was determined (and publicly stated) to get Bigger and Tougher through the draft if you recall.

And what was the average size of overall draft picks in those years?
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,174
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And what was the average size of overall draft picks in those years?

Go figure that out yourself sunshine!

Seriously though. I don't think this surprising. In 2009, Rutherford came right out and said he wants to add size through the draft, and every player drafted that year was 6'+. Francis, from day 1 said he wants to add size for most every draft, and he has. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I take him at his word and it sure looks like he's doing that.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
84,978
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Honestly you can just draft players by last name and get it right most of the time.

For example:

Svechnikov

Bust, he'll be KHL fodder soon.


Bust, we'll be making fun of this guy in a few years.


Good solid NHL player right here.


Enigmatic, but he'll keep some team interested enough to trade for him every year.


Minor league goon.

Lundestorm

Mother of god, put this man at the top of your list! And get ready for some goals by Lundestooooooooorrrmmmm!


Works every year.
 
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