Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft Part I

[StevenToddIves]

1: how is a kid busting anywhere remotely similar to a franchise player retiring 3 years into his 15 year deal and leaving a franchise to rot? if Kovy is so admired in Russian hockey, many of the kids there probably have a bad perception of NJ. Could guarantee you they don’t want to be here (see rykov trade) teddy and Josef son just busted and they were late first rounders. See how those 2 situations are not anything alike? Cool. Waste of time.

2. Zacha has not done anything to prove he’s more than a 3C. That’s his role right now, it certainly doesn’t mean he’s good at it. He scored 5 goals this year and at times hurt more than he’s helped. He has done nothing to show he has potential to be anything more than a solid checking forward. I won’t argue you on McLeod because you’ve probably seen More of him than me.

3. Same thing, you’ve seen more than me.

4. Kandre is boom or bust (I think we agree here) so when a team has 1 mid first rounder and nothing else till mid 4th round, that probably isn’t the direction you want to head in.

I’m not sure if you took offense to my post or something but a lot of what you Just responded (specifically part 1) was a complete waste of space. Anyway I do like your scouting opinions.

1)I think it's safe to say that a Russian kid drafted in the first round by the New Jersey Devils will not be influenced in any way by the fact that Ilya Kovalchuk left his contract early nearly a decade before he's ready for the NHL. In Kravtsov's case, I'd think he'd be thrilled to join an up and coming franchise with the possibility of playing on a line with all-world talents like Hall and Hischier.

2)Agreed that Zacha has a lot to prove. But again, he's just 21. Best case scenario, he can still develop into a very good second line C. Worst case scenario, he can be a Radek Faksa-like 3C. And there's absolutely no reason to think McLeod won't be a 2C -- he's got all-world speed, good size, plays two ways, wins draws, competes, does not shy from physical play, has shown a penchant for raising his game in the CHL playoffs. The only question is whether his scoring skills will translate and enable him to become a 50-60 point NHL 2C, or whether he will be a very speedy and capable 3C with some offensive pop. It's also worth noting that McLeod can play RW, and there is the possibility of his being used there (a position of need in NJ) for the 2018-19 campaign.

3)I would not draft Merkley unless I had multiple early picks because of concerns expressed in virtually every write-up on him. But to compare Smith to Ryan Murphy is simply baseless. If he somehow falls to #17, picking Smith would in all likelihood be a no-brainer for the Devils. If they drafted a Bokk or Kaut over Smith, it would be seen as disastrous by most draft experts, myself included.

4)K'Andre Miller is by no means boom-or-bust. Merkley would fit that description, as would Rasmus Kupari. But with Miller, you don't know if he's going to be a third-pairing guy or a superstar or something in between. His size/strength/skating are all outstanding, he's just a tremendous athlete. He's a smart kid for certain, but he is still prone to certain mental errors, which many boosters attribute to the fact that he has only played the position of D for a few years. But his worst-case scenario is being a better version of Mirco Mueller -- another big and mobile kid, but one who lacks Miller's gumption and willingness to engage both physically and offensively. His best case scenario, however, is the entire NHL wondering for 15 years how he did not go in the top 5 of the 2018 draft.

Lastly, I'd like to reiterate that none of my arguments were meant to be personal or vitriolic. I just firmly believe that these kids should not have the book closed on them or be labeled due to a slower development curve or the nation that they were raised in. I think it's important to judge them all on their individual merits as hockey players.

 

[devilsblood]

There russian factor is something to consider. Of coarse we saw it up close and personal, but there are other examples, Nichushkin comes to mind. In general you just don't know if they will ever come over, or if they do, when they might just decide to go home.

I'm a little wary of taking a Russian with that first rounder.

 

[StevenToddIves]

There russian factor is something to consider. Of coarse we saw it up close and personal, but there are other examples, Nichushkin comes to mind. In general you just don't know if they will ever come over, or if they do, when they might just decide to go home.

I'm a little wary of taking a Russian with that first rounder.

If I had a Russian player and a Canadian/American ranked evenly, I admit I would draft the Canadian/American. But in the case of Kravtsov/Bokk/Thomas/Kaut, I have Kravtsov ahead of them. They could all become very good offensive players, but Kravtsov is the one of the four I would say has superstar upside. Thomas and Bokk I have ranked virtually neck and neck behind Kravtsov, and although I like Kaut I would put him fourth out of these potential first-round RWs.

 

[NJDevs26]

There russian factor is something to consider. Of coarse we saw it up close and personal, but there are other examples, Nichushkin comes to mind. In general you just don't know if they will ever come over, or if they do, when they might just decide to go home.

I'm a little wary of taking a Russian with that first rounder.

Radulov being another one. Yeah he's back now but he spent basically eight years over there.

Put it this way, they pretty much have to be a star otherwise they'll get more money playing at home. And even the star left us in the end. So yeah it's a factor as long as the KHL is solvent enough for the 2-3 All-Star teams to run the show, and not just cause of the *** that left us. I don't mind Popugayev type picks in the middle rounds even though the very early returns aren't that promising, but with a first rounder (especially a year where we don't have another pick till round 4) is a different kettle of fish.

 

[DevilsJunkie]

From the sublime comfort of my armchair, I currently pine for either McIsaac or Thomas in Round 1. Tychonick in Round 2 should Ray acquire a pick there.

However, I keep seeing mocks where the Devils select Lundestrom. He seems like a "safe" pick. Not sure how I would feel about that selection if the draft went down like that.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I don't like Lundestrom, I'm still shell-shocked by JJ.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Man, I remember sitting at the equipment sale/draft party at the Rock, so sure the Devils were going to take Schroeder (sucks the Rags took Kreider right before us, I bet we would have taken him). Was very confused at the JJ pick.

Fun fact: Josefson was ranked 3rd in the Central Scouting Services among Euro skaters, ahead of OEL and Johansson.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Man, I remember sitting at the equipment sale/draft party at the Rock, so sure the Devils were going to take Schroeder (sucks the Rags took Kreider right before us, I bet we would have taken him). Was very confused at the JJ pick.

Fun fact: Josefson was ranked 3rd in the Central Scouting Services among Euro skaters, ahead of OEL and Johansson.

Conte did say a few years later that they were set to pick Kreider

I also wanted Schroeder and he ended up worthless too

 

[StevenToddIves]

From the sublime comfort of my armchair, I currently pine for either McIsaac or Thomas in Round 1. Tychonick in Round 2 should Ray acquire a pick there.

However, I keep seeing mocks where the Devils select Lundestrom. He seems like a "safe" pick. Not sure how I would feel about that selection if the draft went down like that.

As I keep saying, don't trust most mocks. They don't study the organizations/GMs. The Devils have a half-dozen players who could fill the 2nd/3rd line LWs role behind Hall for the next decade. I think the only way the Devils would even consider a LW is if Farabee fell and was the Best Available Player at 17. Though Lundestrom is a very good second-line prospect with speed for some team, there is no scenario where he is the clear-cut Best Available Player at 17.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

2. Zacha has not done anything to prove he’s more than a 3C. That’s his role right now, it certainly doesn’t mean he’s good at it. He scored 5 goals this year and at times hurt more than he’s helped. He has done nothing to show he has potential to be anything more than a solid checking forward. I won’t argue you on McLeod because you’ve probably seen More of him than me.

being a 3C at 21 years old is actually pretty good. How many legit top 6 centers are there in the NHL younger than 21? Most guys are just starting to break into the league at his age. Keep in mind Zacha just turned 21 last month so he will be 21 all of 18-19, too.

Zacha's game clearly improved this year as compared to last year. He also scored 8 goals this year, not 5.

 

[Scorcho]

I can't wait until my boy Pavel shuts up all the naysayers.

 

[Goptor]

4)K'Andre Miller is by no means boom-or-bust. Merkley would fit that description, as would Rasmus Kupari. But with Miller, you don't know if he's going to be a third-pairing guy or a superstar or something in between. His size/strength/skating are all outstanding, he's just a tremendous athlete. He's a smart kid for certain, but he is still prone to certain mental errors, which many boosters attribute to the fact that he has only played the position of D for a few years. But his worst-case scenario is being a better version of Mirco Mueller -- another big and mobile kid, but one who lacks Miller's gumption and willingness to engage both physically and offensively. His best case scenario, however, is the entire NHL wondering for 15 years how he did not go in the top 5 of the 2018 draft.

You bring up the same examples each time you bring up K'Andre. Size is always the first thing anyone says about him and then later the excuse that he switched positions to cover up failures as a defenseman. I'm skeptical because every high pick praised for their size first has been a massive disappointment unless they are actually bigger than everyone in the NHL like Chara, Hedman, Myers, Oleksiak. K'Andre would be considered small compared to those players. I also do not buy the position switch excuse. Its been two year and if he cannot learn to pick up junior level forwards then what does that say about picking up on NHL forwards.

What is your impression on him without using the size narrative and judging his decision making on the same level as his peers?

 

[zharkenby]

being a 3C at 21 years old is actually pretty good. How many legit top 6 centers are there in the NHL younger than 21? Most guys are just starting to break into the league at his age. Keep in mind Zacha just turned 21 last month so he will be 21 all of 18-19, too.

Zacha's game clearly improved this year as compared to last year. He also scored 8 goals this year, not 5.

I’m sorry there’s no point in you replying every time I post something about zacha. You all seem to have forgotten rather quickly that he’s the player I really wanted in that draft.

Just because he plays 3c doesn’t mean he’s good at it. Low end #3 center.

 

[zharkenby]

Yeah so you see that interesting tweet before about McLeod’s PP 60 in the ohl? Nobody with his production (D+2) that was drafted in the first round has EVER went on to be a top 6 scoring forward..... he will he a damn good 3c though. Still leaves a massive hole at #2

 

[Darkauron]

This is the "2018" draft thread. Can we again not fall back into talking about other prospects.

I am starting to be okay if we went with someone like Kravtsov though Miller is still who i'd lean towards. We still really lack a high end RW prospect almost as much as a LD

 

[StevenToddIves]

You bring up the same examples each time you bring up K'Andre. Size is always the first thing anyone says about him and then later the excuse that he switched positions to cover up failures as a defenseman. I'm skeptical because every high pick praised for their size first has been a massive disappointment unless they are actually bigger than everyone in the NHL like Chara, Hedman, Myers, Oleksiak. K'Andre would be considered small compared to those players. I also do not buy the position switch excuse. Its been two year and if he cannot learn to pick up junior level forwards then what does that say about picking up on NHL forwards.

What is your impression on him without using the size narrative and judging his decision making on the same level as his peers?

By the end of this season, Miller was the best D on a US-NTDP team which has a blueline boasting one first-round lock (Wilde), one first/second round tweeter (Samuelsson), and another likely to be gone by the third (Emberson). Though his skating and shot are a notch below Wilde, he is less prone to lapses in play despite far less blueline experience. Though smaller than Samuelsson, he is stronger and more physical. Offensively, his development curve has been outstanding and he had the best PPG of any D on the squad.

Though the US-NTDP regularly features multiple Fs drafted in the first round of the NHL draft, the last time they had multiple D drafted in the first was 2012, with Jacob Trouba and Brady Skjei, both of whom are very good NHL-ers. This years crop might be the best yet -- both Wilde and Miller have star potential.

I do not compare Miller to huge D like Chara, Hedman, Myers etc., though I'm not certain if that was what you are implying. The comparison I like to use the most is that K'Andre reminds me of a rawer Charlie McAvoy. Though McAvoy was far more polished in his draft year, the two players have similar tool-sets and mind-sets.

Ultimately, would I draft Miller over Jack Hughes or Ty Smith or Noah Dobson? No, I would not. Those players all share the sky-high upside that Miller has, but they are currently more developed and thus closer to that talent ceiling. But the Devils do not draft 7th, they draft 17th. Hughes and Smith and Dobson will be gone. Of the players likely to be remaining at 17, Miller's upside should be as high as anyone's. That's why I think he's a great pick for the Devils.

 

[MartyOwns]

By the end of this season, Miller was the best D on a US-NTDP team which has a blueline boasting one first-round lock (Wilde), one first/second round tweeter (Samuelsson), and another likely to be gone by the third (Emberson). Though his skating and shot are a notch below Wilde, he is less prone to lapses in play despite far less blueline experience. Though smaller than Samuelsson, he is stronger and more physical. Offensively, his development curve has been outstanding and he had the best PPG of any D on the squad.

Though the US-NTDP regularly features multiple Fs drafted in the first round of the NHL draft, the last time they had multiple D drafted in the first was 2012, with Jacob Trouba and Brady Skjei, both of whom are very good NHL-ers. This years crop might be the best yet -- both Wilde and Miller have star potential.

I do not compare Miller to huge D like Character, Hedman, Myers etc., though I'm not certain if that was what you are implying. The comparison I like to use the most is that K'Andre reminds me of a rawer Charlie McAvoy. Though McAvoy was far more polished in his draft year, the two players have similar tool-sets and mind-sets.

Ultimately, would I draft Miller over Jack Hughes or Ty Smith or Noah Dobson? No, I would not. Those players all share the sky-high upside that Miller has, but they are currently more developed and thus closer to that talent ceiling. But the Devils do not draft 7th, they draft 17th. Hughes and Smith and Dobson will be gone. Of the players likely to be remaining at 17, Miller's upside should be as high as anyone's. That's why I think he's a great pick for the Devils.

I’m not sure if you’re actually miller’s agent or what, but you’ve convinced me. I hope he’s available at #17 and we nab him

 

[StevenToddIves]

This is the "2018" draft thread. Can we again not fall back into talking about other prospects.

I am starting to be okay if we went with someone like Kravtsov though Miller is still who i'd lean towards. We still really lack a high end RW prospect almost as much as a LD

I agree. I keep saying that there are three RWs with top-line potential who have a very good chance to be available at #17: Kravtsov, Thomas and Bokk. It would be difficult to be unhappy if the Devils picked any of the three. A couple other other RWs could go later in the first round if the Devils decide to trade down: Serron Noel, Martin Kaut, Jonatan Berggren. I think all three of those guys top out as second-liners, though.

If the Devils DO trade down into the 20s to recoup a 2nd/3rd round pick (which is quite possible), I still think they would have an eye on one of the late first-round D prospects: Alexeyev, Lundqvist, Woo, Sandin, Tyonchick, Addison... maybe even Merkley.

Another guy I really like for the late first that I have not talked about nearly enough is C Ty Dellandrea. He's a great skater and competitor, he plays two-ways, and his offensive ability was stifled by playing for a godawful Flint team but he clearly has the skills to be an outstanding second line C in the NHL. I think he's a real sleeper in this draft -- I like him more than higher ranked Cs like Lundestrom and Olofsson, and he's not as scary a pick as Kupari.

 

[Triumph]

Radulov being another one. Yeah he's back now but he spent basically eight years over there.

Put it this way, they pretty much have to be a star otherwise they'll get more money playing at home. And even the star left us in the end. So yeah it's a factor as long as the KHL is solvent enough for the 2-3 All-Star teams to run the show, and not just cause of the *** that left us. I don't mind Popugayev type picks in the middle rounds even though the very early returns aren't that promising, but with a first rounder (especially a year where we don't have another pick till round 4) is a different kettle of fish.

The KHL is moving to a strict salary cap, or so they claim. I'm not worried about the KHL being lucrative anymore, as I think those days may be ending soon. I'm more concerned about the pressure they put on players to stay in the KHL to begin with.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yeah so you see that interesting tweet before about McLeod’s PP 60 in the ohl? Nobody with his production (D+2) that was drafted in the first round has EVER went on to be a top 6 scoring forward..... he will he a damn good 3c though. Still leaves a massive hole at #2

maybe post the tweet if you are going to post information like this....?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I’m sorry there’s no point in you replying every time I post something about zacha. You all seem to have forgotten rather quickly that he’s the player I really wanted in that draft.

Just because he plays 3c doesn’t mean he’s good at it. Low end #3 center.

I mean, so you basically are saying he is never going to improve? He already is a 3C at 21 years old. He nearly doubled his ES points/60 from last year to this year.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Ultimately, would I draft Miller over Jack Hughes or Ty Smith or Noah Dobson? No, I would not. Those players all share the sky-high upside that Miller has, but they are currently more developed and thus closer to that talent ceiling. But the Devils do not draft 7th, they draft 17th. Hughes and Smith and Dobson will be gone. Of the players likely to be remaining at 17, Miller's upside should be as high as anyone's. That's why I think he's a great pick for the Devils.

I'm not sure if you went over this or not so if you have, sorry. If it came down to Miller or kravtsov/bokk who's your pick?

 

[Rhodes 81]

Drafting based on position outside of the top 5 is stupid (it's arguably stupid in the top 5). Drafting someone because they're better developed at the age of 18 is sketchy as well. You take the player you think has the best chance at being a star at every pick. If that means taking on a risk, so be it. I'd rather draft the boom or bust prospect if the boom is likely higher than the ceiling on the safe pick.

So sign me up for Miller.

 

[devilsblood]

Drafting based on position outside of the top 5 is stupid (it's arguably stupid in the top 5). Drafting someone because they're better developed at the age of 18 is sketchy as well. You take the player you think has the best chance at being a star at every pick. If that means taking on a risk, so be it. I'd rather draft the boom or bust prospect if the boom is likely higher than the ceiling on the safe pick.

So sign me up for Miller.

There is so much opinion involved in stuff like this, who will be the better player, who has the better chance of reaching greatness, who has the better chance of being a solid NHL'r.

I have no problem factoring in team need.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I can't wait until my boy Pavel shuts up all the naysayers.

I would guess that the whole board would love to shut up.