2018 Hall of Fame Ballot released (Vlad, Chipper, Thome & Hoffman are in)

[GIN ANTONIC]

I think if you're going to induct relievers, Hoffman has as good a case as anyone not named Rivera

He has a pair of 2nd place finishes for the Cy Young, and he's the NL's all-time leader in saves (2nd all-time to only Rivera)

What more do you want a closer to do?

Also saves are basically trash. Like yes, that's great you closed out the 9th but coming in for a clean inning and getting 3 outs while not giving up x amount of runs isn't that big of an accomplishment. People seem to think every save is from the closer coming in up by 1 run with the bases loaded and no outs to face the 1927 Yankees.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I think if you're going to induct relievers, Hoffman has as good a case as anyone not named Rivera

He has a pair of 2nd place finishes for the Cy Young, and he's the NL's all-time leader in saves (2nd all-time to only Rivera)

What more do you want a closer to do?

This is how the HOF thinks. The younger generation (myself included) mostly doesn't put much value in saves.

Like even if we're opening it up to relievers, the fact that Hoffman's going to get 80% of the vote this year while Wagner will be lucky to get 10% while essentially having the same career is absurd.

 

[Neutrinos]

This is how the HOF thinks. The younger generation (myself included) mostly doesn't put much value in saves.

Like even if we're opening it up to relievers, the fact that Hoffman's going to get 80% of the vote this year while Wagner will be lucky to get 10% while essentially having the same career is absurd.

This isn't about Hoffman vs Wagner though

It's about Hoffman vs the Hall of Fame standard

Like it or not, Hoffman's resume is more impressive than some previously inducted relievers

 

[Machinehead]

Mussina has a higher WAR than Ryan, Glavine, Carew, Gehringer, Schilling, Bagwell, Rose, and Brooks Robinson.

Quoting this for the people in the back.

He should have been in the Hall of Fame yesterday.

 

[Voight]

Quoting this for the people in the back.

He should have been in the Hall of Fame yesterday.

Not his fault. but lack of awards really really kills you these days.

 

[Machinehead]

Not his fault. but lack of awards really really kills you these days.

Very true.

I think it's almost more impressive to be consistently very good to great but never elite, than be inconsistent and have spurts of being elite, but I understand that's just not how the system works.

Sad thing is, he retired after a wonderful 2008 (20 wins, 5.2 WAR) and easily could have still been effective for the Yankees in 2009 and won a ring. But he made a personal decision to call it quits and it's a shame that that will likely cost him.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

This isn't about Hoffman vs Wagner though

It's about Hoffman vs the Hall of Fame standard

Like it or not, Hoffman's resume is more impressive than some previously inducted relievers

Please name them. I count Rollie Fingers and that's it. He's on par with Sutter I guess. Neither of those guys should be in though.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Bill Livingston voted for only Thome and Vizquel. This after handing in a blank ballot last year. Why are people like this still allowed to vote?

 

[Terry Yake]

This isn't about Hoffman vs Wagner though

It's about Hoffman vs the Hall of Fame standard

Like it or not, Hoffman's resume is more impressive than some previously inducted relievers

like who?

sutter is the only reliever in the hall who i'd say hoffman has a better resume than

 

[Neutrinos]

like who?

sutter is the only reliever in the hall who i'd say hoffman has a better resume than

Anyone not named Rivera

 

[Machinehead]

I have absolutely nothing against Omar Vizquel, but some of the committee's fetish for him is everything wrong with archaic baseball minds and the fact that they still vote.

He had a nice career, but a 42-45 WAR guy isn't a Hall of Famer, and he was bad offensively, calling a spade a spade.

 

[Terry Yake]

Anyone not named Rivera

hoffman doesn't even come close to having the resume eckersley does

sutter is the only one i'd say that hoffman for sure has the better resume than

 

[Neutrinos]

hoffman doesn't even come close to having the resume eckersley does

sutter is the only one i'd say that hoffman for sure has the better resume than

Disregarding both of their final seasons when neither was very good, here are their numbers as relievers:

Eckersley from '87 - '97
750 IP, 752 K, 2.87 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

Hoffman from '93 - '09
1042 IP, 1113 K, 2.73 ERA, 1.041 WHIP

 

[Terry Yake]

Disregarding both of their final seasons when neither was very good, here are their numbers as relievers:

Eckersley from '87 - '97
750 IP, 752 K, 2.87 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

Hoffman from '93 - '09
1042 IP, 1113 K, 2.73 ERA, 1.041 WHIP

eckersley finished in the top 5 of CYA voting 4 times and top 5 of MVP voting 3 times. and he won both awards

hoffman has neither

 

[MS]

This isn't about Hoffman vs Wagner though

It's about Hoffman vs the Hall of Fame standard

Like it or not, Hoffman's resume is more impressive than some previously inducted relievers

Disregarding both of their final seasons when neither was very good, here are their numbers as relievers:

Eckersley from '87 - '97
750 IP, 752 K, 2.87 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

Hoffman from '93 - '09
1042 IP, 1113 K, 2.73 ERA, 1.041 WHIP

Dennis Eckersley was a upper-echelon starter for a decade before becoming a reliever and has 63 career WAR to Hoffman's 28. And won a World Series. And a Cy Young and MVP (if undeserved).

Fingers threw 45 postseason innings with a ~1.50 ERA for the 1972-74 Oakland A's three-peat. The best postseason relief performance in history aside from Rivera.

Sutter popularized a pitch that changed the sport. Still an awful selection, but at least he has that substantial legacy. And won a WS as well.

Hoffman is a 28 WAR reliever with a disastrous postseason resume. He sets a new low bar for relief pitchers. It's an embarrassingly terrible induction based on a fake, pointless stat rather than actually being good at the sport and contributing at an elite level.

 

[Neutrinos]

Dennis Eckersley was a upper-echelon starter for a decade before becoming a reliever and has 63 career WAR to Hoffman's 28. And won a World Series. And a Cy Young and MVP (if undeserved).

Fingers threw 45 postseason innings with a ~1.50 ERA for the 1972-74 Oakland A's three-peat. The best postseason relief performance in history aside from Rivera.

Sutter popularized a pitch that changed the sport. Still an awful selection, but at least he has that substantial legacy. And won a WS as well.

Hoffman is a 28 WAR reliever with a disastrous postseason resume. He sets a new low bar for relief pitchers. It's an embarrassingly terrible induction based on a fake, pointless stat rather than actually being good at the sport and contributing at an elite level.

Personally, I don't care about championships when it comes to talking about a player's candidacy for the Hall

Hoffman pitched a total of 13 innings in the playoffs and finished with a 3.46 ERA and 1.23 WHIP

 

[robert terwilliger]

so i guess joe nathan's in then. krod too. and papelbon.

hoffman lowers the bar going forward for sure. sutter had the stupid splitter that he didn't invent but took credit for which was bad enough. now we're going to celebrate a bowl of oatmeal for throwing an inning 65-75 times a year. maybe hoffman invented the entrance song too.

 

[Voight]

People are actually trying to say Hoffman would be a better inductee than Eck??? A guy who won an MVP and Cy as a reliever? This is turning into the main board lol

 

[DoyleG]

Bonds and Clemens trending downwards. Thibodaux's projections don't rule them out possible getting less votes than last year.

Good News: Walker is trending upwards, and picking up votes.

 

[Voight]

I am going to burn down Cooperstown if Hoffman gets in before Clemens/Bonds

 

[Bjorn Le]

I am going to burn down Cooperstown if Hoffman gets in before Clemens/Bonds

He almost certainly will unfortunately.

 

[Hasbro]

yeah i never got why mcgriff didn't get more HOF attention considering how close he came to 500

i guess nothing really sticks out about his resume

 

[rangerssharks414]

^Back to back to back AAU national championships!

 

[darko]

I am going to burn down Cooperstown if Hoffman gets in before Clemens/Bonds

Get your matches and petrol ready.

 

[Neutrinos]

McGriff is a 2x HR leader