NHL Entry Draft 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

[Upgrayedd]

This is the type of players we need to target with that late first rounder. Hoping to hit a Konecny, Pastanak, Tolvanen type.

Im with you, history shows us the team is seemingly the least likely in the league to take a chance on a high end player....more content with securing a for sure 4th line player than a potential top 6er. Miss the good ol drafting days were we took more skilled players, it was such a strength of ours and then poof away it went!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

My big question with Tkachuk is, how many point do folks think he'll put up in the NHL? Realistically.

 

[branch]

My big question with Tkachuk is, how many point do folks think he'll put up in the NHL? Realistically.

I think no more than 50-60 pts in a career year.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think no more than 50-60 pts in a career year.

Hmmm...see, if he was a good bet to hit around 50 points for the majority of his career/prime, then I'd be pretty ok with picking the kid (well, probably not in the top 5 or so). We do need more swagger in the lineup, and the kid is a good bet to be a legit power forward. But, he still needs to be a good point producer, when you're picking so high in the draft.

 

[Micklebot]

Im with you, history shows us the team is seemingly the least likely in the league to take a chance on a high end player....more content with securing a for sure 4th line player than a potential top 6er. Miss the good ol drafting days were we took more skilled players, it was such a strength of ours and then poof away it went!

Brown was seen as a bust or boom pick. I don't think it's fair to say we go after safe players. Chabot wasn't a safe pick either. We mix it up a bit.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

The thing about Tkachuk, is that we have never really had a player of his skill set. So while there are players that likely have higher ceilings, I would not mind picking him if we are outside the top 5.

We also never had a forward reach 70 points or higher since Spezza left. All of our guys are 50-60 point guys. We haven't had a game breaking forward since 2011.

Stone might have reached this had he not been injured.

 

[Alex1234]

Hughes is all nice and dandy but I'd prefer this guy:



Any other draft and he'd be the overhyped sought after number 1 D guy.

You never have enough of RD in this league

 

[Agent Zub]

Brown was seen as a bust or boom pick. I don't think it's fair to say we go after safe players. Chabot wasn't a safe pick either. We mix it up a bit.

I don't think Brown was seen as boom or bust where we picked him.

He was a pretty obvious pick where we were because there was perceived to be a big drop off after the 13 pick.

I think the boom-bust thing comes from the late season hype he got, and some people saying he could be taken in the the top 5. Which would have been risky... But at the end of the first tier? I don't think so.


Also in general the Brown is boom or bust type is played out.

He's 6 ft 7, has great agility, a great passer and shooter and will have one of the longer reaches in hockey. So even if he busts and doesn't become a top 6 player. He is going to end up as a fixture in some teams bottom 6.

 

[Alex1234]

We also never had a forward reach 70 points or higher since Spezza left. All of our guys are 50-60 point guys. We haven't had a game breaking forward since 2011.

Stone might have reached this had he not been injured.

Duchene is skilled enough to reach 70 if he is well surrounded

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I don't think Brown was seen as boom or bust where we picked him.

He was a pretty obvious pick where we were because there was perceived to be a big drop off after the 13 pick.

I think the boom-bust thing comes from the late season hype he got, and some people saying he could be taken in the the top 5. Which would have been risky... But at the end of the first tier? I don't think so.


Also in general the Brown is boom or bust type is played out.

He's 6 ft 7, has great agility, a great passer and shooter and will have one of the longer reaches in hockey. So even if he busts and doesn't become a top 6 player. He is going to end up as a fixture in some teams bottom 6.

Brown was 100 percent seen as a boom and bust guy.

Jeff Marek was reporting the day after the draft that certain GMs were "afraid" to have Brown fall to them because he was the type of player (to paraphrase) who would either make a GM look like a genius for getting him in the top 10, or make him look like an idiot for wasting a top 10 pick on him.

That, and the general profile of Brown was a guy who had a really strong second half of his season, but an uninspired first half, and there was a concern about which one represented him better, which Brown whoever drafted him would be getting.

That certainly sounds like a boom+bust guy to me. If you track down the 2016 post draft Marek VS Wyshynski podcast, that's where Marek talks about it.

If you don't see Logan Brown as a boom or bust guy on the day of the 2016 draft personally, that is fine, but to argue that he wasn't seen that way by the consensus, or can't be used as an example of the Senators making a risky high upside pick is false. There's just too many scouting reports online, and sources like the one I provided above that describe the pick in that manner.

 

[Zorf]

If you guys will allow me to do so, I would like to speak to something that grinds my gears.

The whole concept of playing well now to carry over into next season.

What the hell? Who actually believes this crap? This version of the Ottawa Senators can't carry good play over a 17 minute intermission from one period to the next, and we're expected to believe that "finishing strong" will carry over FIVE MONTHS into next season? Give me a break.

This "strong play" is mostly from teams seeing the Sens on the schedule and thinking that they have an easy win and they don't come to the game mentally prepared to play. It's nothing more than that.

The worst part is all this "strong play" will do is bump the Sens out of the bottom 3 spots in the standings, and that's beneficial to no one.





So, that being said, let's talk about who's ranked in the 5-10 range because we should all prepare ourselves for the Sens to ruin the draft and make this whole awful season entirely pointless.



Yeah, I just made myself grumpy. Good thing this happened today. I'm interviewing people tomorrow. Imagine I was grumpy Zorf in the interviews? Haha.

"Hello candidate. Please tell me how you would FIX THE STUPID SENATORS...sorry, I mean, how well do you work in a team atmosphere...BECAUSE THE SENATORS CAN'T SEEM TO FIGURE IT OUT....sorry again, EUGENE MELNYK CAN CHEW ON MY LEFT BUTT CHEEK!!...ok, I'm not apologizing for that one. Please answer the question."

 

[Agent Zub]

Brown was 100 percent seen as a boom and bust guy.

Jeff Marek was reporting the day after the draft that certain GMs were "afraid" to have Brown fall to them because he was the type of player (to paraphrase) who would either make a GM look like a genius for getting him in the top 10, or make him look like an idiot for wasting a top 10 pick on him.

That, and the general profile of Brown was a guy who had a really strong second half of his season, but an uninspired first half, and there was a concern about which one represented him better, which Brown whoever drafted him would be getting.

That certainly sounds like a boom+bust guy to me. If you track down the 2016 post draft Marek VS Wyshynski podcast, that's where Marek talks about it.

If you don't see Logan Brown as a boom or bust guy on the day of the 2016 draft personally, that is fine, but to argue that he wasn't seen that way by the consensus, or can't be used as an example of the Senators making a risky high upside pick is false. There's just too many scouting reports online, and sources like the one I provided above that describe the pick in that manner.

I know there were a lot of scouting reports that he was a boom or bust. But he wasn't, especially for where he was taken and for the type of player he is.

I assume the boom or bust scouting reports had more to do with the top 5 hype.

He would have been a risky pick in the top 5.

Not at 11.

Furthermore, what is the bust probability on Brown? He has a higher floor than most prospects picked in the first.

 

[aragorn]

But should it be always about points? What about all the intangibles that a player like Tkachuk could bring do they not also add value? For example, causing a rukkus in front of the net, controlling the puck in the offensive zone, separating a player from the puck, intimidation, making room for teammates, screening the goalie & dogged determination may not always result in him getting pts but results in the team scoring. He could bring a lot of energy to the team.

Mark Stone does not lead the league in scoring but he has led the league in take aways before & does that not also have equal value? Tkachuk could be as valuable defensively as he would be offensively but he may not be as great a scorer as Svechnikov or Sadina but he could be much better defensively & those two could be liabilities defensively. Do you see what I mean? It could be that Tkachuk is the better all around player but not quite as good offensively so what is more valuable to Ottawa? Most people I think would prefer a dangler but Stone isn't a dangler & he has worked out just fine with Ottawa. Is Hoffman the dangler more valuable than Stone the good two way player? Ottawa could probably use both a Tkachuk type player & a Svechnikov type player & I have no idea who they will choose.

 

[DJB]

Rank these players in order of how you would for the Senators pick
I rank them like this..
1. Brady Tkachuk
2. Quinn Hughes
3. Noah Dobson
4. Evan Bouchard
5. Ty Smith

I am not passing on Brady if Dahlin, Svech, Zadina, Boqvist, Wahlstrom are all gone
I find Hughes vs Dobson a tough choice and I find Bouchard vs Smith a tough choice

Brady
Bouchard
Dobson
Hughes
Smith

The Dobson vs Bouchard debate rages on between me every day. I constantly flip flop

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

I wonder if they take Svechnikov if they win the 2nd overall pick at the lottery. Was hating Russians a Bryan Murray thing or a Melnyk thing?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Don't underestimate Tkachuk. I am not flying his banner but .. I would welcome a big hard nosed grinding winger that plays with an edge , and that can put the puck in the net and make plays around the net. I think he would be a good addition. A line with Tkachuk on left wing and Stone on right wing could be pretty lethal. Sens are a team with many needs so a fair case can be made for practically all of the 6-10 options listed. IMO none of those players would be BAD choices . They all offer something and they are all standout players.

 

[BondraTime]

I wonder if they take Svechnikov if they win the 2nd overall pick at the lottery. Was hating Russians a Bryan Murray thing or a Melnyk thing?

Melnyk thing 100%, because he's petty like that.

But 100% we take Svechnikov. He's heads above everyone but Dahlin.

Tried to trade up for Sergachev in 2016. The Russian thing is overblown.

Who was the last Finn we drafted before Nurmi? Did we have a bias against Finns, or did we just not choose any? Same thing applies to Russians in the CHL.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I wonder if they take Svechnikov if they win the 2nd overall pick at the lottery. Was hating Russians a Bryan Murray thing or a Melnyk thing?

I am not convinced it is a thing. Not scouting in Russia is a thing. I'm pretty sure Sergachev is Russian and the Sens allegedly tried to move up to take him in the Logan Brown draft, they also allegedly tried to have him included in a deal at the TDL.

 

[OD99]

The only thing I would say about Brown is that he acquitted himself very well in the preseason and the few games he played in regular season as well. That doesn't mean he will be able to carry it forward but he didn't look out of place and created quite a few chances...I am comfortable with believing him to be a solid contributor to the team moving forward.

 

[SPF6ty9]

I wonder if they take Svechnikov if they win the 2nd overall pick at the lottery. Was hating Russians a Bryan Murray thing or a Melnyk thing?

I think it was more a money thing really. As in lack thereof to have a scout in Russia. I would assume we'd be fine with drafting one that's been playing in North America. Our GM / pro scout / amateur scout / ticket officer / Melnyk receptionist / team yoga instructor Dorion was scouting Svech's team recently.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

But should it be always about points? What about all the intangibles that a player like Tkachuk could bring do they not also add value? For example, causing a rukkus in front of the net, controlling the puck in the offensive zone, separating a player from the puck, intimidation, making room for teammates, screening the goalie & dogged determination may not always result in him getting pts but results in the team scoring. He could bring a lot of energy to the team.

Mark Stone does not lead the league in scoring but he has led the league in take aways before & does that not also have equal value? Tkachuk could be as valuable defensively as he would be offensively but he may not be as great a scorer as Svechnikov or Sadina but he could be much better defensively & those two could be liabilities defensively. Do you see what I mean? It could be that Tkachuk is the better all around player but not quite as good offensively so what is more valuable to Ottawa? Most people I think would prefer a dangler but Stone isn't a dangler & he has worked out just fine with Ottawa. Is Hoffman the dangler more valuable than Stone the good two way player? Ottawa could probably use both a Tkachuk type player & a Svechnikov type player & I have no idea who they will choose.

Stone has more points than Hoffman though. It's harder to get top tier offensive players, Svech is no question #2 in my mind after Dahlin.

 

[aragorn]

Stone has more points than Hoffman though. It's harder to get top tier offensive players, Svech is no question #2 in my mind after Dahlin.

You may be right but if Buff for example is drafting 2nd would they take the Russian or the American who may be able to sell more seats. The average fan is not going to know who Svechnikov is or care for that matter but they may know that Tkatchuk played for the WJC American team & had an outstanding tournament.

That IMO sells tickets & while Svechnikov may be the better player offensively Tkachuk may sell more tickets for the franchise & still be a good contributor offensively & probably better defensively. It's a tough call but I bet they take Tkachuk, btw Craig Button has said that he thinks Tkachuk is the 2nd best prospect in this draft. There are expert differing opinions after Dahlin.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You may be right but if Buff for example is drafting 2nd would they take the Russian or the American who may be able to sell more seats. The average fan is not going to know who Svechnikov is or care for that matter but they may know that Tkatchuk played for the WJC American team & had an outstanding tournament.

That IMO sells tickets & while Svechnikov may be the better player offensively Tkachuk may sell more tickets for the franchise & still be a good contributor offensively & probably better defensively. It's a tough call but I bet they take Tkachuk, btw Craig Button has said that he thinks Tkachuk is the 2nd best prospect in this draft. There are expert differing opinions after Dahlin.

no body takes tkatchuk second... nobody

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

But should it be always about points? What about all the intangibles that a player like Tkachuk could bring do they not also add value? For example, causing a rukkus in front of the net, controlling the puck in the offensive zone, separating a player from the puck, intimidation, making room for teammates, screening the goalie & dogged determination may not always result in him getting pts but results in the team scoring. He could bring a lot of energy to the team.

Mark Stone does not lead the league in scoring but he has led the league in take aways before & does that not also have equal value? Tkachuk could be as valuable defensively as he would be offensively but he may not be as great a scorer as Svechnikov or Sadina but he could be much better defensively & those two could be liabilities defensively. Do you see what I mean? It could be that Tkachuk is the better all around player but not quite as good offensively so what is more valuable to Ottawa? Most people I think would prefer a dangler but Stone isn't a dangler & he has worked out just fine with Ottawa. Is Hoffman the dangler more valuable than Stone the good two way player? Ottawa could probably use both a Tkachuk type player & a Svechnikov type player & I have no idea who they will choose.

IMO they take Svechnikov at 2, Zadina at 3 ... if they are lucky enough to get one of those pick positions.

 

[aragorn]

Melnyk thing 100%, because he's petty like that.

But 100% we take Svechnikov. He's heads above everyone but Dahlin.

Tried to trade up for Sergachev in 2016. The Russian thing is overblown.

Who was the last Finn we drafted before Nurmi? Did we have a bias against Finns, or did we just not choose any? Same thing applies to Russians in the CHL.

Wasn't it Melnyk that wanted & supposedly forced BM to sign Alex Kovalev? Janne Kolehmainen (Finn) drafted by Ottawa in 2005 the Brian Lee draft. I would think that they haven't drafted Finns Or Russians because in their opinion there were better players available than Finns or Russians when it was their turn to draft. In hindsight they should have drafted Tarasenko rather than trade for Rundblad but Runblad got us Turris who got us Duchene.

The Sens have 11 scouts on staff including Bob Janecyk who is their European scout. Mikko Ruutu (Finn) is also a scout & I would guess based in Finland & probably scouts Scandinavia & it wouldn't surprise me if he gets into Eastern Europe & Russia too. Of the 11 scouts three are professional scouts, two are European scouts & 7 are amateur scouts. That seems like a lot of scouts & I'm not sure about the ratios but I guess you can never have too many. I think if draft rankings remain similar that Ottawa ends up with one of Svechnikov, Sadina or Bodqvist to soften the inevitable Karlsson trade.