2018-19 Red Wings

[Oddbob]

Karlsson will have that opportunity in a year. With the cap going up and high-end blueliners still being a rare commodity, I wouldn't be so stingy with that $10m. Pietrangelo, Doughty, Weber, Suter, Subban, and Letang are all guys who could demand and justify that if they hit the open market today. Big Buff could probably make an argument for it as well. I mean, put any of them in Detroit eating 25 minutes a night in all situations, punching in 40+ points, and see how drastically our blueline improves.

Karlsson and maybe Hedman are the only D men I would pay 10 or more a year. OEL is very good, but he also struggles in his own end doesn't he? Doughty doesn't score enough to get that, neither does Pietrangelo who I like a lot, but I think for 10+ you have to be a 60+ pt dman, and be excellent defensively. Karlsson is above 60 per year on Ottawa with not much help so his defensive game gets some slack and Hedman is very good at both. The other D in the league are not quite in the same class eventhough they are very good, they are more 7-9 a year in my opinion.

 

[TheMule93]

With Saarijarvi getting some looks next year maybe?

considering hes not even an AHLer (hes in the ECHL....) I doubt it

 

[Leronziia]

With Saarijarvi getting some looks next year maybe?

I think Hronek is ahead of him in the depth chart.

 

[jkutswings]

(I couldn't get the quote/reply function working. This is with regards to Winger's comment about Tatar being expendable, if a top 4 defenseman was in play.)

Like when fans were hollering to deal him for Can Fowler, and be willing to throw in Sheahan or AA to make it happen? His 39 points last year were more than any defenseman Detroit had on the roster. Or any the year before that. And just behind Kronwall's 44 points in 2014-15.

I'm perfectly fine with shopping Tatar (or anybody else, for that matter). But until this organization is willing to risk more than either an extremely 'safe' player in return for a depth guy, or some picks at the deadline for a pending UFA, I'm not exactly encouraged by what that shopping trip might yield.

 

[Reddwit]

Put simply, if Arizona wants to compete... they would be further along by keeping OEL in town at 10M+ rather than spreading 10M around on a replacement D (Daley), a RW (Nyquist), and some combo of young players and picks. 1 elite D is worth far more than several okay players.

None of those "attractive" proposals are even close to that. You're thinking from the Wings side. Even if you're not interested in paying OEL 10M, you could something with more utility for a team than an okay top 4D who you could have signed for 3.3M this summer, an okay top 6 wing, some lotto pulls from the Wings farm system that admittedly is lacking elite upside, and hoping that a team that you're dealing Oliver Ekman Larsson to is going to drop in the standings. Quantity for quality deals are never attractive, even if they're "the most attractive quantity for quality proposal in 20 years".

You don't get discounts on #1Ds because they want #1D money. Arizona will re-sign him for 10M+ (if he even actually asks for that, I think the "desire to get out of hell" aspect is overblown). You might think that package is attractive, but any combo of Wings assets in a deal for OEL? I would bet you a large amount of money that it would easily be trumped by another team. They'd go quality and wouldn't try to stack up 3 quarters, two dimes and a nickel for a guy who is an elite D in this league.

And if Arizona wants to compete... they won't want ANY of Detroit's prospects that are any good. Cholo, Razzy, Hronek, Svech? It's far from guaranteed that they'll actually succeed and if they do... Rasmussen is about three years off, Cholo the same, Hronek at minimum two, and Svech is still a year or so. If they want to compete, they're going to want Mantha or Larkin. AA looks like he has star potential... but I mean, other teams saw what went on with his contract and with Blashill benching him. He doesn't carry blue chip trade value. He just doesn't... no matter how much any of us like him as a player.

And hell, if I'm Arizona, I extend him for 9-10M while asking him where he wanted to go. Work out a deal with an extension in place. Arizona has literally no reason to trade OEL for quantity.

I’m not thinking from the Wings side at all. I’m thinking from the side of the team that acquired Hamilton, Burns, Seguin, Ryan, Thornton, Yandle, Nash, Gabby, Saad, J-Bo, ROR, Spezza, Kesler, Luongo, Kessel, Kovalchuk, and more but I’m lazy.

I mean, when you’re talking about a twilight UFA, a star that a team can’t sign, you don’t get star value.

I don’t dictate the trade market but I have followed it and found it to be the most interesting part of the off-ice NHL world in my 20 years of following it. I think maybe 3 times in my post-cap life I’ve seen something actually HF-worthy warm over and come true: Shattenkirk+Stewart for EJ+, Subban for Weber and Duchene for Turris in a 3-way. In all cases, a hometown team was done with their key asset and in the most recent trade, it required a guy being on the block for 2 years (with more than 1.5 years still left on his deal), a legitimate 3-team transaction, and a can’t-do-without inclusion of a prospect/player (Sammy Girard) who had a fraction of the value prior to the pre-season 2.5 months ago. Good luck finding that foot that fits that slipper.

I don’t know why you think Arizona (of all teams) has the type of pull for a guy whose agent is likely floating him watercooler rumors of $12-15M from other teams to eschew those numbers or that they could even convince him to pull a sign-and-trade without more to begin with, but you’re operating under the minority assumption.

 

[TheMule93]

Hypothetically if we got Dahlin or Svechnikov, where would they play in the lineup? Dahlin would probably slot into the 1D position...maybe not to start, but at some point during the season. Green probably gone. Kronwall maybe LTIR'd.

Thinking about lines with Andrei Svech is more fun. Lets assume Nyquist is traded, and Z is retired.

Athanasiou-Larkin-Mantha
Tatar-Nielsen-A. Svechnikov
Abdelkader-Rasmussen-E. Svechnikov
Bertuzzi-Glendening-Helm

i-will
miss-you
mike-green

Howard
?????

Hopefully Ras can be a 2C one day. Nielsen there is not very exciting. The Svechnikov brothers both play RW, dunno if they'd ever play together apart from being on a PP unit. Honestly, that looks like a very uninspiring forward core unless AA drastically improves and Ras + Evgeny become impact players in their rookie campaigns which is unlikely. Also, Rasmussen probably wont even be on the team anyway.... and at this rate either will Evgeny.

 

[SantosHalper]

First of all, merry christmas for everyone. To kill some time while i enjoy christmas music and some red wine , and of course some vodka too is nice to speculate next season roster. Most likely farewell season to the Captain.

Athansiou-Larkin-Mantha
Tatar-Nielsen-Abdelkader
Nyquist-Zetterberg-Rasmussen
Helm-Glendening-Bertuzzi
Witkowski

DeKeyser-Daley
Kronwall-UFA
Ericsson-Jensen/Ouellet/UFA
Russo

Howard
Coreau

Green and Mrazek will be traded at next TDL and possibly Jensen or Ouellet or even both. I believe Kenny will be signing at least one or maybe two UFA d-man at the frenzy. If they don't get Dahlin at the draft. And one of the UFA d-man could be Jack Johnson.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don’t see coreau being the backup. They will sign someone in ufa for cheap. If coreau is the backup we are in full tank. Unless he has a bounce back half season

 

[Henkka]

As far as cap space/spending for 18/19:

With no one on LTIR: $12,824,621.00 + whatever the max increase is
With Franzen on LTIR: $16,779,166 + whatever the max increase is
With Franzen and Kronwall on LTIR: $21,529,166 + whatever the max increase is

Cap should raise as high as 80 million at next season. Latest Mirtle speculation is between 80-20 million. Vegas is gushing cash and also last raise was quite moderate, players union didn't use a full 5% escrow. Also Canadian dollar is getting stronger again.

What Holland should do is:

A) trade Green at 2018 deadline. (retent max 50%)
B) trade Nyquist at 2018 deadline (retent 1M and he'll be interesting piece for any team)
c) qualify Mrazek and trade him at 2018 draft. Draft has been usual market for goalie trades.
d) extend Larkin/Mantha/Frk/Athanasiou for combined ~14-15 million.
e) use remaining cap space for UFA asset.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Cap should raise as high as 80 million at next season. Latest Mirtle speculation is between 80-20 million. Vegas is gushing cash and also last raise was quite moderate, players union didn't use a full 5% escrow. Also Canadian dollar is getting stronger again.

What Holland should do is:

A) trade Green at 2018 deadline. (retent max 50%)
B) trade Nyquist at 2018 deadline (retent 1M and he'll be interesting piece for any team)
c) qualify Mrazek and trade him at 2018 draft. Draft has been usual market for goalie trades.
d) extend Larkin/Mantha/Frk/Athanasiou for combined ~14-15 million.
e) use remaining cap space for UFA asset.

A - yes.
B - Sure. I can take or leave Nyquist. Wouldn't be angry if they moved or didn't move him.
C - Absolutely not. You deal Mrazek at the TD or you don't qualify him. OR you trade Howard (with any possible retention). You cannot qualify Mrazek at $4M when Howard is still under contract. It cannot happen that you have 9.3M in goalies again next year. And since teams know that... you would have ZERO leverage at the draft when it came time to deal Mrazek.
D - 5-5-3.5-1.5? 15M is seeming pretty optimistic for signing those 4 if you're planning on inking Mantha and Larkin long term.
E - This seems like a certainty.

 

[Inspiration]

Let's ignore what we want to happen on focus strictly what we think will happen for a moment: what do we currently think the odds are that Athanasiou is on the opening night roster for the '18-19 Red Wings? Is it under 50%?

 

[Redder Winger]

Let's ignore what we want to happen on focus strictly what we think will happen for a moment: what do we currently think the odds are that Athanasiou is on the opening night roster for the '18-19 Red Wings? Is it under 50%?

Unless he's traded in a package for a defenseman, I don't see how he's gone.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Let's ignore what we want to happen on focus strictly what we think will happen for a moment: what do we currently think the odds are that Athanasiou is on the opening night roster for the '18-19 Red Wings? Is it under 50%?

AA incompetent agent asked for way more then what he deserve, AA had no leverage last summer next summer he has leverage due to being salary arbitrary next summer he will be back probably something around 2 years $6 million give or take.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don’t see coreau being the backup. They will sign someone in ufa for cheap. If coreau is the backup we are in full tank. Unless he has a bounce back half season

I agree that Coreau really doesn't look like he has much of an NHL future. Since he can potentially become a UFA this summer, I think he'll get some starts in if Howard/Mrazek get hurt and if/when Mrazek gets moved so they can see what they have in him regardless.

My bet is that Coreau is gone next season and Holland(or whoever) ends up with two goalies on his UFA shopping list:

1. An affordable #1B/2 that will sign for two seasons and make it so that they'll have a serviceable option if Howard is moved at the 2019 TDL or leaves as a UFA after 18/19
2. A Joey MacDonald/Michael Leighton type to shoulder the load in GR for a year while they wait for guys like Larsson, JVP, Fulcher, etc. to move to or get acclimated to the pro level

 

[Wings 1986]

Forwards
Nyquist Zetterberg Mantha
Abdelkader Larkin Tatar
Bertuzzi Athanasiou Frk
Helm Nielsen Glendening
(Turgeon, , Holmstrom, )
Don't see Rasmussen or Svech as possibilities unless something changes in the top 9. One could supplant Frk.

Defense (No Green, No Kronwall
Dekeyser Jensen
Ericsson Daley
XO Hicketts
Witkowski

Goal
Howard
Mrazek

Mrazek still number 2.

Then Tatar, Frk and Mantha to Islanders and got Lee.

Kronwall for Klingberg.

Then we got Sam Staal in draft.


Nyqvist - Zetterberg - Athanasiou
Lee - Larkin - Abdelkader
Nielsen - Rasmussen - Booth
Helm - S.Staal - Glendening

Ericsson - Klingberg
Daley - Green
Hicketts - Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

 

[Henkka]

Mrazek still number 2.

Then Tatar, Frk and Mantha to Islanders and got Lee and Barzal.

Kronwall for Klingberg.

Then we got Sam Staal in draft.


Lee - Barzal - Athanasiou
Franzén - Larkin - Abdelkader
Nielsen - Nyqvist - Booth
Helm - S.Staal - Glendening

Ericsson - Klingberg
Daley - Green
Dekeyser - Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

What is this nonsense? Franzen? Kronwall for Klingberg... yeah right.

 

[TNigs]

Mrazek still number 2.

Then Tatar, Frk and Mantha to Islanders and got Lee and Barzal.

Kronwall for Klingberg.

Then we got Sam Staal in draft.


Lee - Barzal - Athanasiou
Franzén - Larkin - Abdelkader
Nielsen - Nyqvist - Booth
Helm - S.Staal - Glendening

Ericsson - Klingberg
Daley - Green
Dekeyser - Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

Sam Steel's been drafted by the Duckies.
Barzal's going nowhere.

I thought this post was from a year ago or something.

 

[Wings 1986]

What is this nonsense? Franzen? Kronwall for Klingberg... yeah right.

But Kronwall transfer for Coyotes. And too us is Oliver Ekman-Larsson. Maybe a possible.

 

[Martinez]

Mrazek still number 2.

Then Tatar, Frk and Mantha to Islanders and got Lee and Barzal.

Kronwall for Klingberg.

Then we got Sam Staal in draft.


Lee - Barzal - Athanasiou
Franzén - Larkin - Abdelkader
Nielsen - Nyqvist - Booth
Helm - S.Staal - Glendening

Ericsson - Klingberg
Daley - Green
Dekeyser - Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

It's bad man... You could do better

 

[Henkka]

If I am the Red Wings next GM, this would be my plan.

2018 trade-deadline + summer actions:
--------------------------------
- Trade Green for 2018 1st
- Trade Nyquist for 2019 1st
- Trade Mrazek at draft for a 2nd rounder.
- LTIRetire Kronwall. He could have his "Niklas Kronwall Hockey school" and stay mentoring our kid defenceman as his daily job, outside the salary cap.
- Bring up Turgeon and Hronek after the deadline.
- Win the draft lottery. Just win baby. Do it. Draft Dahlin and keep him at Europe for 1 year.
- Promote Rasmussen and Cholowski from juniors to join the team.

2018-19
Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha
Abdelkader - Zetterberg - Tatar
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Frk
Helm - Rasmussen - Glendening
(Turgeon, Witkowski)

DeKeyser - Daley
Ericsson - Ouellet
Cholowski - Hronek
(Jensen)

Howard
Coreau.

Then TANK. This team would be worse than our current team, no matter who is the coach. Torchetti could do the tank job, to secure it be really bad. He has been on numerous places, when teams want to hit the bottom on standings.

Tank job will piss of Zetterberg, and he will request a trade.

At 2019 deadline
- Trade Zetterberg for 1st + 2nd.
- Trade Daley for 2nd + 3rd.
- Trade Darren Helm for 3rd.
- Trade Jimmy Howard for 4th.
- Trade Luke Witkowski for 7th.
Bring in Svechnikov and Matt Puempel. Rasmussen will get a bigger role after Z is gone. Turgeon will get a regular job from Helm.

After trade deadline:
Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha
Abdelkader - Rasmussen - Tatar
Svechnikov - Nielsen - Frk
Bertuzzi - Turgeon - Glendening
(Puempel)

DeKeyser - Hronek
Cholowski - Ericsson
Ouellet - Jensen

Coreau/McCollum (perfect TANK goalies for rest of the season)

***

2019 summer would be interesting.

- Dahlin joins the team.
- We will have 3 x 1st round picks at 2019 draft, with own at TOP3 + 2 extras from Zetterberg and Nyquist trades.
- Team shakeup towards youth is already happening, still some vets there to be sold out.
- With crap season and possibly ~4th overall we get some nice TOP6 forward, probably 1st line talent.
- Trade Evgeny Svechnikov to a team which did draft Andrei Svechnikov to unit the brothers to get a defensive RhD. Package Xavier Ouellet also on this trade and replace him with Dahlin.
- Sign UFA Pekka Rinne for 1-year to mentor our own Monster goalie Petruzzelli.

2019-20 season:
Athanasiou(25y) - Larkin(23y) - Mantha(25y)
2019 1st pick(18y) - Rasmussen(20y) - Tatar(28y)
Abdelkader(32y)- Nielsen(35y) - Frk(26y)
Bertuzzi(24y) - Turgeon(23y) - Glendening(30y)
(Puempel, 26y), 2018 1st pick(19y)

Dahlin(19y) - Proven stay-at-home RhD got for Svechnikov
DeKeyser(29y) - Hronek(21y)
Cholowski(21y) - Ericsson(35y)
(Jensen, 29y)

Rinne (37y)
Petruzzelli(20y)/Pottelberghe(22y)

From 2020 and on... some of those multiple 1st rounders will replace Abdelkader, Nielsen, Glendening and Ericsson from our depth charts and all vets are pretty much gone. DeKeyser and Tatar would be oldest ones hitting the thirties... somebody of lower-round picks from 2014-18 could also be ready to jump in.

Guys like Vili Saarijärvi and Joe Hicketts become trade baits, because Dahlin will steal the future spots from them and Cholowski+Hronek are enough good secondary pieces behind him. Sell them for futures to create an even brighter future.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don’t see nyquist going for a first. Guy sucks In the playoffs and he’s a second liner on teams that are going for the cup

 

[Henkka]

I don’t see nyquist going for a first. Guy sucks In the playoffs and he’s a second liner on teams that are going for the cup

With retention it could work, because there would be an extra year with cheaper caphit.

If he goes for 2nd, it doesn't change the big picture.

 

[Wings 1986]

Nyqvist - Zetterberg - Athanasiou
Lee - Larkin - Abdelkader
Nielsen - Rasmussen - Booth
Helm - S.Staal - Glendening

I thinking this a-team could been best. Not the dreamteam is better.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Can Rasmussen play in the AHL next year? With someone as physically developed as him he has to turn pro but I hate the idea of putting him on the wings when he's been hurt so much and could use some development time.

I'll guess that we bring up Hronek, Svechnikov and Bertuzzi full time next year. Trade one of Tatar/Nyquist. Trade Green and let Mrazek walk as a FA with Coreau as Jimmie's backup. We draft a D at the number 7 spot in the draft who isn't ready until 2019. Assuming we bring Rasmussen up as well I'd say our lineup next year looks something like:

Mantha-Larkin-Z
Nyquist/Tatar-Neilsen-AA
Abby-Rasmussen-Svechnikov
Bertuzzi-Glendenning-Helm

Dekeyser-Daley
Ouellett-Hronek
Ericsson-Jensen

Howard
Coreau
LTIR: Kronwall and Franzen

Our defense is going to be really bad without Green.

 

[turkleton85]

Can Rasmussen play in the AHL next year? With someone as physically developed as him he has to turn pro but I hate the idea of putting him on the wings when he's been hurt so much and could use some development time.

I'll guess that we bring up Hronek, Svechnikov and Bertuzzi full time next year. Trade one of Tatar/Nyquist. Trade Green and let Mrazek walk as a FA with Coreau as Jimmie's backup. We draft a D at the number 7 spot in the draft who isn't ready until 2019. Assuming we bring Rasmussen up as well I'd say our lineup next year looks something like:

Mantha-Larkin-Z
Nyquist/Tatar-Neilsen-AA
Abby-Rasmussen-Svechnikov
Bertuzzi-Glendenning-Helm

Dekeyser-Daley
Ouellett-Hronek
Ericsson-Jensen

Howard
Coreau
LTIR: Kronwall and Franzen

Our defense is going to be really bad without Green.

Maybe Holland/whoever signs an UFA defenseman for a bit of stability if they trade green.

Chityl of the rangers started the season on the NHL roster and then was sent down to hartford in the AHL despite being only 18 years old. This way it seems to be possiblt for under 20 year olds