Speculation: 2017 TDL/Draft/Off-Season

[Cheddabombs]

Colorado is still better than the Devils in 2010-11 when Lemaire took over.

Devils were 10-29-2 at one point....

That's why comments around here of this team being, or even playing, "MacLean" levels bad are hilarious. Like no, MacLean bad was a whole new level of bad. It redefined bad.

 

[MadDevil]

makes the teams that legit tried to lose look even worse. shameful

Arizona is like "God dammit, we've tried to be that bad for years!"

 

[NJDevs26]

Colorado is still better than the Devils in 2010-11 when Lemaire took over.

Devils were 10-29-2 at one point....

Yeah that team was literally performing expansion level bad, it was obvious even with the problems on that team they needed a coaching change. Although nobody could have predicted that same team would go on a 115-point pace in the second half

That's why comments around here of this team being, or even playing, "MacLean" levels bad are hilarious. Like no, MacLean bad was a whole new level of bad. It redefined bad.

It was getting close in December...really close in terms of being consistently noncompetitive. It just didn't happen AS long as it did that year and they finally crawled out of the darkness in January. It was about a 14-15 game stretch of being hopeless this year. MacLean lasted 33 games.

 

[Zippy316]

Yeah that team was literally performing expansion level bad, it was obvious even with the problems on that team they needed a coaching change. Although nobody could have predicted that same team would go on a 115-point pace in the second half



It was getting close in December...really close in terms of being consistently noncompetitive. It just didn't happen AS long as it did that year and they finally crawled out of the darkness in January. It was about a 14-15 game stretch of being hopeless this year. MacLean lasted 33 games.

Yup.

Devils went from 10-29-2 (lost 7 of the first 8 Lemaire took over) to 32-32-4.

That was just absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Bleedred]

That's why comments around here of this team being, or even playing, "MacLean" levels bad are hilarious. Like no, MacLean bad was a whole new level of bad. It redefined bad.

We looked pretty MacLean-esque during late November and most of December, even worse than the MacLean team on some nights. The MacLean team never allowed 49 shots in a game, nonetheless to a rat **** team like the Habs when Therrien coached them. But considering the rosters, MacLean definitely had a better one. Even with Zach injured and considering expectations, we probably should have done a lot better that year than we did this year.

It was getting close in December...really close in terms of being consistently noncompetitive. It just didn't happen AS long as it did that year and they finally crawled out of the darkness in January. It was about a 14-15 game stretch of being hopeless this year. MacLean lasted 33 games.

Looks like you beat me to it!

Although there were times in October where we looked respectable in 2010, the offense just really was pitiful.

Then the wheels seemed to come off at some point in November (outside of a ''Good week'' late that month and it was only good for that team's standards) and by December we were getting killed every night. Marty wasn't very good in October of that year, but he had a few shutouts and wasn't terrible.

Then he also seemed to give up when he came back from injury in December and we were getting blown out every night.

Marty's glove hand was a real weakness that year, even right after Lemaire came back. He was still routinely allowing what were once considered ''Harmless'' or at least ''Relatively safe 7 or 8 out of 10 times'' wrist shots to beat his glove side clean almost every game until he came back from his final injury of that year in February. I almost cried when he allowed one against the Rangers to Fedotenko or somebody, in the second or third game after Lemaire came back.

The wheels seemed to completely come off in the game in early December against the Canadiens at home, when Hedberg allowed two bad goals in the opening minute and then McKenna took over and got clobbered and MacLean might have been lip read saying to Larry Robinson ''These ****ing fans, they booed us the whole PP, they're all ****ing selfish'' which was certainly my last string with him as coach. That was because of a 2 minute 5 on 3 where we had all possession time and just passed the puck around. We had that one completely random 3-0 win over Phoenix that month and it was our only win until a few games after Lemaire came back and one of two that entire month.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Colorado is historically bad. Worse than the 2015 Eichel Tank Sabres. Like, expansion Senators/Sharks bad.

The level of buffoonery that is that team is astounding.

Sakic has to go.

 

[Bleedred]

The level of buffoonery that is that team is astounding.

Sakic has to go.

I feel a little bad for Sakic. He was offered that job and he probably knew at some point or another he would get fired, as is the case with just about every GM, unless they retire first like Sather did. And how Sather survived the early 2000's without being fired, is completely beyond me. Dolan has a very quick trigger finger too and doesn't care about paying guys to go away, we see that with his team in the NBA and the Rangers. So I expected Slats to be gone for a couple years in the early 00's and it never happened.

Just like Roy, he was offered the job and took it. Both are the best players in the history of their franchise and both have been utterly terrible at their jobs and failed miserably. Their season this year might make Roy look a little terrible as a head coach, but just because they're worse this year, doesn't mean that Roy wasn't a bad head coach. I think this could have easily happened if Roy did come back.

At the same time, would any other team have hired Sakic to be their GM? Would any other NHL team have hired Roy to be their head coach? Montreal was supposedly interested before they passed on him and decided to hire Therrien, but that's the same case scenario right there. Another team he played for and he left there on bad terms as a player to begin with.

 

[NJDevs26]

We looked pretty MacLean-esque during late November and most of December, even worse than the MacLean team on some nights. The MacLean team never allowed 49 shots in a game, nonetheless to a rat **** team like the Habs when Therrien coached them. But considering the rosters, MacLean definitely had a better one. Even with Zach injured and considering expectations, we probably should have done a lot better that year than we did this year.

Looks like you beat me to it!

Although there were times in October where we looked respectable in 2010, the offense just really was pitiful.

Then the wheels seemed to come off at some point in November (outside of a ''Good week'' late that month and it was only good for that team's standards) and by December we were getting killed every night. Marty wasn't very good in October of that year, but he had a few shutouts and wasn't terrible.

Then he also seemed to give up when he came back from injury in December and we were getting blown out every night.

Marty's glove hand was a real weakness that year, even right after Lemaire came back. He was still routinely allowing what were once considered ''Harmless'' or at least ''Relatively safe 7 or 8 out of 10 times'' wrist shots to beat his glove side clean almost every game until he came back from his final injury of that year in February. I almost cried when he allowed one against the Rangers to Fedotenko or somebody, in the second or third game after Lemaire came back.

The wheels seemed to completely come off in the game in early December against the Canadiens at home, when Hedberg allowed two bad goals in the opening minute and then McKenna took over and got clobbered and MacLean might have been lip read saying to Larry Robinson ''These ****ing fans, they booed us the whole PP, they're all ****ing selfish'' which was certainly my last string with him as coach. That was because of a 2 minute 5 on 3 where we had all possession time and just passed the puck around. We had that one completely random 3-0 win over Phoenix that month and it was our only win until a few games after Lemaire came back and one of two that entire month.

They only had the good week cause Hedberg won like two or three games, they had good goaltending performances to win three out of four around Thanksgiving. And they also won that random 5-0 game over the Caps where they all had their controllers disconnected. Of course they got their revenge and clown pounded us in December just before MacLean got fired, the 24/7 series following the Caps around did like thirty seconds on that game total, the lowlight being when John Carlson had all the space in the world to beat poor Marty with a 150-MPH shot from point blank range

At least the Devils team this year didn't have a scrubini like Eric Boulton getting a hat trick on them.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We did have a goalie punch in our top RW's head with zero repercussions. That is pretty low.

 

[NJDevs26]

We did have a goalie punch in our top RW's head with zero repercussions. That is pretty low.

That was BEFORE the roof completely fell in too Actually that's exactly when the roof started falling in.

 

[MadDevil]

That was BEFORE the roof completely fell in too Actually that's exactly when the roof started falling in.

The roof started falling in a couple weeks before that with that **** California trip we started by blowing a 2-0 lead to Anaheim in 16 seconds.

 

[Triumph]

Dalton Prout is one of those blessed individuals who basically only has an NHL job because he is a right-handed defenseman. People are saying hyperbolically that they would rather have a pick, but I'm looking at the free agent market and I'm not seeing a ton of RHD that I have any interest in. Maybe Paul Postma? But he barely plays.

So sure, Prout is overpaid by $500k, but the plus side is we know how long he's signed for and we know what he's capable of, which isn't a ton. I don't love the deal for Prout, but I get the rationale - the Devils will probably lose a defenseman in expansion, and Prout's a nice backup to have.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Dalton Prout is one of those blessed individuals who basically only has an NHL job because he is a right-handed defenseman. People are saying hyperbolically that they would rather have a pick, but I'm looking at the free agent market and I'm not seeing a ton of RHD that I have any interest in. Maybe Paul Postma? But he barely plays.

So sure, Prout is overpaid by $500k, but the plus side is we know how long he's signed for and we know what he's capable of, which isn't a ton. I don't love the deal for Prout, but I get the rationale - the Devils will probably lose a defenseman in expansion, and Prout's a nice backup to have.

I'll laugh if we get a plot twist and Vegas takes Prout

 

[NJDevs26]

The roof started falling in a couple weeks before that with that **** California trip we started by blowing a 2-0 lead to Anaheim in 16 seconds.

They did go 3-1-3 after the dumb California trip, granted they weren't playing all that well and had a few pond hockey extravaganzas thrown in, but it was really the Habs game that started the death spiral where they lost seven in a row and nine out of ten, mostly in blowouts.

 

[ghdi]

I'll laugh if we get a plot twist and Vegas takes Prout

Let them. Then we're where we were yesterday. Assuming Quincey is gone.

There are a few serviceable RHD hitting FA though. Cody Franson, Michael Stone, even Roman Polak. Obviously we don't want to rely on them in a major role and at least the first two will require some level of commitment, but if we're able to get a Shattenkirk or other upper tier D-Man, one of them becomes easier to swallow. Heck even Yannick Weber would be better than Prout.

 

[MadDevil]

They did go 3-1-3 after the dumb California trip, granted they weren't playing all that well and had a few pond hockey extravaganzas thrown in, but it was really the Habs game that started the death spiral where they lost seven in a row and nine out of ten, mostly in blowouts.

They did seem to lose some of their competitiveness after that game, but it was probably an inevitable collapse given how they played the previous 10 or so games. They were playing with fire and then doused themselves in gasoline for about 6 weeks (I think we had 2 regulation wins in 21 games from the middle of November through the entire month of December). We really should be double digit points out of a playoff spot, but the East is one big mess of mediocrity this year.

 

[Bleedred]

After seeing some of the other weak returns today, a 6th for PAP doesn't seem all that bad. Especially when he's injured and the Preds have already announced he'll be missing the next two games right off the bat.

They only had the good week cause Hedberg won like two or three games, they had good goaltending performances to win three out of four around Thanksgiving. And they also won that random 5-0 game over the Caps where they all had their controllers disconnected. Of course they got their revenge and clown pounded us in December just before MacLean got fired, the 24/7 series following the Caps around did like thirty seconds on that game total, the lowlight being when John Carlson had all the space in the world to beat poor Marty with a 150-MPH shot from point blank range

At least the Devils team this year didn't have a scrubini like Eric Boulton getting a hat trick on them.

I remember the John Carlson goal very well. Colin White poke checked the puck off Ovechkin's stick and it rolled right to Carlson, who blasted past Marty, who didn't even bother lifting his glove at that point. He literally just flinched his shoulder, as if he had been shocked or zapped by something. That game and the one before against Atlanta, where Marty laid in the crease for 5-10 seconds and didn't even try to get up before some Thrashers guy just shot one in, seemed to signify that Marty had given up at that point and when a guy like Marty is completely giving up and packing it in, that's when it really became evident that Johnny Mac needed to go.

Marty was clearly declining by that point, as it started at the end of the season before. Right around the calendar year turning to 2010. But he played meh (and not completely horrible) in October of that year, which he usually did even in his prime. And then he packed it in along with the rest of them in December.

 

[Bleedred]

You assume entirely too much. You realize that its March 1st?

You assume that Lovejoy will still be our #2. The chance of that is there, but there's so much that has yet to happen.

You also assume that DSP will be here. Is it a stretch that he gets taken in the ED? Is it a stretch that he is still here but we get a player to play above him? If DSP is on the 4th line, thats hardly anything to get worked up over. He can be effective if hes in the right role. Josefson is a player we probably need to move on just because he can't stay healthy, but he's also cheap and he has shown the ability to be effective. I'd not be disappointed if he's brought back.

There was only so much Shero could do this trade deadline. We didn't have valuable expendable assets. There's still a helluva lot that is happening. This year is a real crapshoot because of the expansion draft. It changes plans and alters business. Our cap space is no joke. There are more opportunities to get players for immediate improvement in the very near future. Many thought we were going to be a potential playoff team this year, it's not happened, but we're not far removed from that analysis with a few moves that are within reach, but we're not in the time period that gives us the best option for that yet.

I do agree that if we're still stagnating a year from now, then maybe Shero deserves to start to feel some heat and have his moves questioned to the Nth degree. Last year was an aberration because so much of what he did worked out. That was never going to happen with every move. We are still in a position to attract UFAs b/c of the financial position we're in, we're likely going to draft a very capable player and if we are in a position to pick in the top 3, that means a guy who could be here immediately and have an impact. This year the emergence of Miles Wood and Jon Merrill seemingly turning a corner CANNOT be discounted moving forward. The expansion draft will open opportunities to poach players cap strapped teams can't afford. There is a lot of options moving forward. Lou left us in a position that was NEVER going to be easy or a quick fix.

If Lovejoy isn't our #2 or #3 next year, it means we probably made a splash for a defenseman somehow. Maybe by the end of the year next season, Santini can overthrow him from that spot. Severson probably already should have and did for a while.

As far as DSP and the expansion draft goes, first of all, what is the order of teams getting plucked in the expansion draft? I don't remember what happened back in 2000, the last time we had one of these. It seems logically that they would pick from the better teams first and get their crack at the lousier teams afterwards, which we would be one of the last teams to pick from if that is indeed the case. Seems like it would be the reverse order of the entry draft. Do I think they'll take DSP? Probably not, but it all depends on who else we make available and what they already have by the time they get to us.

I think we need to move on from Josefson because just like I've been saying for a little over a year now, he's proven he's not a 3rd line center, nor a 3rd line anything. He continues to produce at a 20-ish point per 82 game basis. Both last year and this year. He's just doing it more with even strength points this year, whereas he did it more with PP points last year. And I've never thought he could be a 3rd liner, but it was worth giving him a shot at it under Hynes and Shero, as Pete didn't exactly like him very much. We have years and years and years and years worth of evidence that he's a 20 point per 82 game player at the very best. And that's not good enough for a top 9 player in this league. He was a regular healthy scratch early on, then he came back in and scored some points, had a nice stretch, one of the best in his career. Then he came right back to where he normally is.

As far as the deadline went, I have no issues. I would have rather have not taken back another question mark NHL defenseman for Quincey, but it's no big deal if we can purge one of them in the expansion draft.

I'm not sure if Merrill has turned the corner. He's been good this season, but he was pretty poor for the two prior years. I think we need to see another good season next year for me to really believe he's turned a corner. In the role he's been used in though, he certainly isn't hurting us one bit and I'm not sure if he's ever been as bad as Moore, outside of Moore being able to score some goals/points more than him. Which are negated by poor defense almost immediately.

 

[NJDevs26]

As far as DSP and the expansion draft goes, first of all, what is the order of teams getting plucked in the expansion draft? I don't remember what happened back in 2000, the last time we had one of these. It seems logically that they would pick from the better teams first and get their crack at the lousier teams afterwards, which we would be one of the last teams to pick from if that is indeed the case. Seems like it would be the reverse order of the entry draft. Do I think they'll take DSP? Probably not, but it all depends on who else we make available and what they already have by the time they get to us.

This is only a one-team and one-round expansion draft unlike prior ones where you had to pull guys back after the first pick, Vegas will have everyone's protected list and pick all thirty choices at once, this isn't going to be a made for TV event except probably the ultimate reveal on all the guys they pick.

 

[The Wumpus]

2010-11 was such a bizarre, superlative season. The worst hockey I've ever seen in the first half. Kovalchuk during the second half might have been the most dominant sustained performance I've seen by anyone in a Devils uniform, along with Stevens in the '00 playoffs (but with lower stakes, obviously). Those were very close games we were winning, and it seemed like Kovy was tying it or putting us ahead each game with a solo rush in the third.

 

[MadDevil]

I do miss that Russian ******* sometimes.

 

[NJRockinRoller]

I hate the trades and just feel terrible about where this team is right now, esp looking at the standings and seeing them in the #9 draft spot (with Vegas included). This is the definition of a cycle of mediocrity. Not good enough to get anywhere and not bad enough to get any better. Its maddening.

THAT SAID, regarding the acquisition of Prout, which I am struggling to make sense of, is it possible that he has a role to the organization this offseason not only as a body to expose at draft but a body to trade in an expansion draft trade.

What I mean is we have heard about the Devils targeting teams who have good players that they will have to expose and lose for nothing to Las Vegas. Instead of losing said player for nothing, the Devils can offer that team draft picks and absorb the contract of that player cause of their plethora of picks and cap space. This has been one of the optimists reason for hope that the team can acquire talent this offseason.

But the team that trades the Devils talent in that scenario will need a body coming back that they CAN expose to Vegas to replace the one that they HAD to expose but instead are trading to NJ. If they dont have a body coming back they will just have to expose another player, who we assume they don't want to expose either, or they wouldn't have been exposing the first guy that they were trading to NJ in the first place. Prout would be the guy going back to that team to serve that purpose. Now, yes, it could also have been Moore or something like that. But I guess the Devils like Moore more than many of us do.;

I'm just saying maybe that is a reason that a contract like Prout's has an extra use for the team. Possible?

 

[Classic Devil]

I hate the trades and just feel terrible about where this team is right now, esp looking at the standings and seeing them in the #9 draft spot (with Vegas included). This is the definition of a cycle of mediocrity. Not good enough to get anywhere and not bad enough to get any better. Its maddening.

THAT SAID, regarding the acquisition of Prout, which I am struggling to make sense of, is it possible that he has a role to the organization this offseason not only as a body to expose at draft but a body to trade in an expansion draft trade.

What I mean is we have heard about the Devils targeting teams who have good players that they will have to expose and lose for nothing to Las Vegas. Instead of losing said player for nothing, the Devils can offer that team draft picks and absorb the contract of that player cause of their plethora of picks and cap space. This has been one of the optimists reason for hope that the team can acquire talent this offseason.

But the team that trades the Devils talent in that scenario will need a body coming back that they CAN expose to Vegas to replace the one that they HAD to expose but instead are trading to NJ. If they dont have a body coming back they will just have to expose another player, who we assume they don't want to expose either, or they wouldn't have been exposing the first guy that they were trading to NJ in the first place. Prout would be the guy going back to that team to serve that purpose. Now, yes, it could also have been Moore or something like that. But I guess the Devils like Moore more than many of us do.;

I'm just saying maybe that is a reason that a contract like Prout's has an extra use for the team. Possible?

No, it doesn't make sense. The Devils only have to expose one defenseman who is under contract and has a NHL history, and we have enough of those (Greene, Moore, Merrill, Lovejoy, Severson) that we couldn't even protect them all if we wanted to anyway.

Edit: I misread your suggestion. It's possible that because Prout has a contract he's an asset to other teams, and that was part of the calculation. But to be honest, I think it's as simple as Castron likes Prout. A few years ago I thought pretty highly of him as a bottom-pairing defenseman, and when he broke into the league CBJ thought he'd be great depth on a bottom pairing. I suspect this is as simple as Castron and Shero viewing him as a reclamation project who has more potential value than realized value, and hoping to make good on that potential. It's John Moore all over again.

 

[MadDevil]

I think the simpler answer is that our depth at RHD blows and Prout is a RHD.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the simpler answer is that our depth at RHD blows and Prout is a RHD.

He's a guy who I guess we can plug in in case of injury, but even with our weak depth this guy isn't likely to get much PT.

Maybe it's an indictment on guys like Mozik and Jacobs as much as anything else.