2017 F1 Season

[Albatros]

Somehow doesn't feel quite the same as the last round of Kyalami or Imola. Good riddance, mostly.

 

[Preds Partisan]

Somehow doesn't feel quite the same as the last round of Kyalami or Imola. Good riddance, mostly.

Well yeah, Malaysia was a Bernie deal, so it was a money grab, nothing more.

 

[SoupyFIN]

Just a reminder that this is the last Maylasian GP.

A move that comes at least 10 years late. The only races worth mentioning are the rainy ones, you know the track is bad when you can only bring up the wet races.

 

[Preds Partisan]

A move that comes at least 10 years late. The only races worth mentioning are the rainy ones, you know the track is bad when you can only bring up the wet races.

Good news, there's an 80% chance of rain Sunday.

 

[Preds Partisan]

About 50 seconds in you can see Grosjean hitting a loose drain cover and having a massive rear tire "failure". Charlie is giving Haas a free pass to fix the damage overnight.

 

[JoVel]

Massa just missed the drain cover seconds after Grosjean went off. Could've been bad had he hit it as well...

 

[JoVel]

It's looking more and more like Vettel can say bye bye to the championship.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Yeah. That's that for Vettel.

Though Kimi and Max are starting next to each other again...who knows what can happen!

 

[Albatros]

It's looking more and more like Vettel can say bye bye to the championship.

I'm rather disappointed with his mental development, he's already 30 and still not able to deal with pressure very well.

 

[SoupyFIN]

Congrats to Hamilton, 2017 WDC.

Hopefully Kimi wins tomorrow after a good start now that Hamilton has no pressure to win the race.

I'm rather disappointed with his mental development, he's already 30 and still not able to deal with pressure very well.

Engine failure isn't exactly a pressure thing though.. and in previous title battles Vettel has caught up from behind, so I don't buy that either.

The crash at the last race was stupid, but that's just one crash. Both Hamilton and Rosberg had crashes/moments in the past 3 years, where they couldn't see the big picture from one battle.

 

[Albatros]

Not this particular incident, but there are too many recent cases where he has simply lost his cool like a novice, in particular with Hamilton and Verstappen. Hamilton used to have similar issues in the past, but that seems long gone.

 

[Kane One]

And add Vettel on Hamilton in Baku. Intentionally collided with him.

 

[WTG]

Attaboi! Verstappen!

I was so nervous the entire race, I for sure thought his engine was going to blow

 

[SoupyFIN]

Ferrari threw away an easy 1-2, Vettel could've really caught up in the WDC had it been Vettel/Raikkonen/Verstappen/Hamilton too.

Magnussen is an idiot and shouldn't be in F1, Stroll in the same boat. Bottas has fallen off a cliff during the last 3-4 races, better pick up the pace if he doesn't want to get Kvyat'd. Palmer's pit crew reaction to his crash reminded me of the time BAR crew was laughing at Villeneuve.

 

[JoVel]

Stroll has been getting better and more consistent as the season has been going on and has been able to cut most of his stupid act off. And then he does this. Oh, Stroll.

 

[Paris in Flames]

I kinda agree with the race directors that neither of them were fully to blame. Just a crappy situation where Stroll will take a majority of the heat because of who he hit and the impact it could have.

People will bitch and moan and say Stroll cost Vettel the championship (if he has to replace the gearbox and take a grid penalty) but that was decided weeks ago.

It does suck pretty bad for both of them. Vettel due to the likely penalty and the implications that has and Stroll because it's gonna put a pretty big black mark on a season he's steadily improved from "why is this dude even here" to a decent threat to the points each week.

 

[S E P H]

I stopped watching F1 like 8 years ago, but getting more and more interested in coming back to it. If someone can help me about the car guide, can you guys tell me which cars the best overall without any driver influences?

 

[SoupyFIN]

I stopped watching F1 like 8 years ago, but getting more and more interested in coming back to it. If someone can help me about the car guide, can you guys tell me which cars the best overall without any driver influences?

Mercedes has been dominant during the current 1.6L turbo era (2014 onwards), only on certain tracks Ferrari and RB have been able to challenge them. Ferrari has been better and closer to Mercedes this year, but Mercedes is still ahead. Red Bull has a good car that's close to Mercedes/Ferrari on paper, but their Renault engine has been plagued by various issues pretty much every year (during the current turbo era).

After those three, there's quite a big gap to the next group. Force India has cemented their position at the top of the mid field, but they aren't really in a position to challenge for a podium unless the top3 teams have multiple issues or DNFs. Williams is next, they've been slipping down year after year, in 2014 they were arguably the 2nd fastest team after Mercedes. Stroll ('s dad) is bringing a lot of money to the team, which might end up saving it. Renault rounds out the upper mid field, largely thanks to Hulkenberg carrying the team. They were in real trouble in 2014 & 2015, due to lack of funding, the team was known as Lotus back then. After Renault took back over, they've been making progress, last year was kind of a rebuilding year and they've had technical issues this year.

Then I'd say comes the lower part of the mid field; Haas, McLaren & Toro Rosso. Haas is really up&down depending on the track, sometimes they're one of the best of the whole mid field, sometimes they're right at the back. McLaren has been suffering from a bad Honda engine, the car itself isn't too bad. They're getting Renault engines for next year. Toro Rosso is still RB's farm team, performance similar to Haas IMO. Toro Rosso is moving to Honda engine for next year.

Finally there's Sauber, the only true backmarker team currently as the others (HRT, Caterham, Manor) have retired from the sport. They're rumoured to become Ferrari's farm team for next season, so expect them to leap closer to the mid field. To summarize the engine suppliers in current constructors championship standings order:

Mercedes
Ferrari
Red Bull (Renault)
Force India (Mercedes)
Williams (Mercedes)
Toro Rosso (Renault currently, Honda next year)
Renault
Haas (Ferrari)
McLaren (Honda currently, Renault next year)
Sauber (old 2016 Ferrari currently, 2018 Ferrari next year)

 

[Preds Partisan]

1 Mercedes 503
2 Ferrari 385
3 Red Bull 270
4 Force India 133
5 Williams 65
6 Toro Rosso 52
7 Renault 42
8 Haas F1 37
9 McLaren 23
10 Sauber 5

That's the points standings. SoupyFIN covered it well. As you can see, there are pretty big gaps in performance. 5-9 could have been in any order this year with a little luck, reliability and better consistency. Next year is year two with the new car design, so I would expect the cream to rise to the top next year. Maybe.

 

[Preds Partisan]

Just read an article that said the loose drain cover that caused Grosjean's accident Friday in FP2 resulted in $700,000 to $1 million in damage to the car. No wonder Haas was pissed.

 

[S E P H]

Mercedes has been dominant during the current 1.6L turbo era (2014 onwards), only on certain tracks Ferrari and RB have been able to challenge them. Ferrari has been better and closer to Mercedes this year, but Mercedes is still ahead. Red Bull has a good car that's close to Mercedes/Ferrari on paper, but their Renault engine has been plagued by various issues pretty much every year (during the current turbo era).

After those three, there's quite a big gap to the next group. Force India has cemented their position at the top of the mid field, but they aren't really in a position to challenge for a podium unless the top3 teams have multiple issues or DNFs. Williams is next, they've been slipping down year after year, in 2014 they were arguably the 2nd fastest team after Mercedes. Stroll ('s dad) is bringing a lot of money to the team, which might end up saving it. Renault rounds out the upper mid field, largely thanks to Hulkenberg carrying the team. They were in real trouble in 2014 & 2015, due to lack of funding, the team was known as Lotus back then. After Renault took back over, they've been making progress, last year was kind of a rebuilding year and they've had technical issues this year.

Then I'd say comes the lower part of the mid field; Haas, McLaren & Toro Rosso. Haas is really up&down depending on the track, sometimes they're one of the best of the whole mid field, sometimes they're right at the back. McLaren has been suffering from a bad Honda engine, the car itself isn't too bad. They're getting Renault engines for next year. Toro Rosso is still RB's farm team, performance similar to Haas IMO. Toro Rosso is moving to Honda engine for next year.

Finally there's Sauber, the only true backmarker team currently as the others (HRT, Caterham, Manor) have retired from the sport. They're rumoured to become Ferrari's farm team for next season, so expect them to leap closer to the mid field. To summarize the engine suppliers in current constructors championship standings order:

Mercedes
Ferrari
Red Bull (Renault)
Force India (Mercedes)
Williams (Mercedes)
Toro Rosso (Renault currently, Honda next year)
Renault
Haas (Ferrari)
McLaren (Honda currently, Renault next year)
Sauber (old 2016 Ferrari currently, 2018 Ferrari next year)

Awesome post, thanks for it!

My next question is how would you rank the cars with their drivers? For example I see that Renault is 7th on the list and they've always had a middle of the pack car. However, when they had Alonso, and how good of a driver he was, he won the championship in 2005.

Also why did McLaren leave Mercedes?

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I don't think Stroll was to blame there, really.

I'd say 50/50. Stroll could have let him pass, but at the same time Vettel wasn't 1 lap up or anything.

My next question is how would you rank the cars with their drivers? For example I see that Renault is 7th on the list and they've always had a middle of the pack car. However, when they had Alonso, and how good of a driver he was, he won the championship in 2005.

My opinions are very basic as I follow specific drivers and care very little for the minutiae of F1 this season.

Well, Renault has been recovering for some time, and while talented, Hulkenberg and Palmer just aren't the drivers that can push the cars good enough. Engines are decent, but I think the gearboxes are touchy.

Ferrari is Ferrari. Obviously it's not Schumi, but Vettle and Raikkonen are a great compliment to both the car and each other. I've not seen anything come out of the team that indicates they're antagonistic. The car itself is quite quick and stable. Outside of Singapore, no major issues with the car.

Mercedes is solid. Quick car, good solid drivers (Hamilton/Bottas). Bottas occasionally makes some bonehead moves, but never seems to suffer much for them.

Red Bull is having alot of problems this season, and somehow they're still up there in points. Either the car dies, crashes, or podiums. There's no happy medium. Ricciardo seems to be having a good but quiet season and Verstappen is exceptionally troublesome - he'll run a good race, then turn around and wreck someone the next.

Toro Rosso is is a slow car with rather untested drivers. I think with a better roster the cars could be better, but with newer drivers such it is.

McLaren has Honda engines, which are trash. Absoloutly the worst of the grid this season, yet they have 23 pts. And those 23 points are because Alonso and Vandoorne are trying hard to make them work.

Force India has a decent car and solid drivers, but won't be winning Constructors or Drivers anytime soon.

Haas-Ferrari are kind of there... I don't pay too much attention to them.

Williams has some potential. Stoll has been a work in progress and, outside what some thing is a black mark in Malaysia, has been getting better and better each GP. Massa has been Massa: solid yet unremarkable. The car had some issues early on that seem to have been solved.

Sauber is trash. I don't even know what to think about their drivers, they're just kinda there, but not like FI is.

Recommended for next year's viewing to keep your eyes on:

Hamilton
Vettel
Stoll
Ocon
Perez

 

[JoVel]

The Finnish media is ridiculous when it comes to sports. On one website there's a vote going on and the question is: do you think Ferrari swapped Räikkönen and Vettel's cars after qualifying?

At the moment with a bit over seven thousand votes, 'yes' has 58% of the votes.

I don't even know what to say.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Red Bull is having alot of problems this season, and somehow they're still up there in points. Either the car dies, crashes, or podiums. There's no happy medium. Ricciardo seems to be having a good but quiet season and Verstappen is exceptionally troublesome - he'll run a good race, then turn around and wreck someone the next.

Recommended for next year's viewing to keep your eyes on:

Hamilton
Vettel
Stoll
Ocon
Perez

I don't know if that's a fair assessment of modern day Verstappen as from what I can remember he's been pretty well behaved all season and for...most of last season (though if I'm missing something please let me know. My memory fluctuates). World Championship talent in a troublesome car this season. (having said that he'll never win a World Championship with Red Bull) but I think a lot of his dangerous ways are pure reputation right now.

I do find it interesting you have Stroll on your drivers to watch list though.

 

[S E P H]

My opinions are very basic as I follow specific drivers and care very little for the minutiae of F1 this season.

Well, Renault has been recovering for some time, and while talented, Hulkenberg and Palmer just aren't the drivers that can push the cars good enough. Engines are decent, but I think the gearboxes are touchy.

Ferrari is Ferrari. Obviously it's not Schumi, but Vettle and Raikkonen are a great compliment to both the car and each other. I've not seen anything come out of the team that indicates they're antagonistic. The car itself is quite quick and stable. Outside of Singapore, no major issues with the car.

Mercedes is solid. Quick car, good solid drivers (Hamilton/Bottas). Bottas occasionally makes some bonehead moves, but never seems to suffer much for them.

Red Bull is having alot of problems this season, and somehow they're still up there in points. Either the car dies, crashes, or podiums. There's no happy medium. Ricciardo seems to be having a good but quiet season and Verstappen is exceptionally troublesome - he'll run a good race, then turn around and wreck someone the next.

Toro Rosso is is a slow car with rather untested drivers. I think with a better roster the cars could be better, but with newer drivers such it is.

McLaren has Honda engines, which are trash. Absoloutly the worst of the grid this season, yet they have 23 pts. And those 23 points are because Alonso and Vandoorne are trying hard to make them work.

Force India has a decent car and solid drivers, but won't be winning Constructors or Drivers anytime soon.

Haas-Ferrari are kind of there... I don't pay too much attention to them.

Williams has some potential. Stoll has been a work in progress and, outside what some thing is a black mark in Malaysia, has been getting better and better each GP. Massa has been Massa: solid yet unremarkable. The car had some issues early on that seem to have been solved.

Sauber is trash. I don't even know what to think about their drivers, they're just kinda there, but not like FI is.

Recommended for next year's viewing to keep your eyes on:

Hamilton
Vettel
Stoll
Ocon
Perez

Another awesome post, thanks guys!!! Yeah I remember when Vettel was with Red Bull and Massa with Ferrari, but I always thought he was a below-average driver. I'm surprised with Force India, I was there when they were a new team and were like what Sauber is now; below average cars and in huge development stages. I always liked them, so it's quite amazing how much they've progressed. What are the opinions here of Daniil Kvyat?