OT: 2017 American Football Thread

[Edmonton East]

I don't understand the Jets trade at all unless they are certain either the Browns or Giants are taking Barkley. Otherwise, you'd have to expect me to believe they have 3 QBs rated roughly the same (and highly rated) to give up that much for the #3. And I'm not buying that's possible.

Or, hell, maybe they are gonna try to move to 1 or 2.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I've been saying it.

if the Giants are not convinced of any of the QBs at 2, they should trade back. They could get a haul.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I don't understand the Jets trade at all unless they are certain either the Browns or Giants are taking Barkley. Otherwise, you'd have to expect me to believe they have 3 QBs rated roughly the same (and highly rated) to give up that much for the #3. And I'm not buying that's possible.

Or, hell, maybe they are gonna try to move to 1 or 2.

Well I doubt Cleveland was ever moving from 1. And the Giants really cannot move down to 6 and risk not coming away with a QB with Eli at the end of his career and them having a chance to get at least one of 3 options. So I don’t think either team has that pick on the table.

This is also big for Maccagnan, who has to know this is his last real shot at getting a young franchise QB. If they fail at that again, he could likely be out of a job anyway.

 

[Davegarri]

I've been saying it.

if the Giants are not convinced of any of the QBs at 2, they should trade back. They could get a haul.

Why not just draft Barkley?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Why not just draft Barkley?

I'd rather get a haul of picks then take a running back in the top 2. And I think Barkley is going to be great.

 

[BenedictGomez]

whoa baby!

Jets' fans should use a #MeToo hashtag, because they got RAPED in that trade.

Realistically, unless their pick essentially makes the Hall of Fame, they just lost that trade.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Jets' fans should use a #MeToo hashtag, because they got RAPED in that trade.

Realistically, unless their pick essentially makes the Hall of Fame, they just lost that trade.

If the quarterback they choose becomes even just a consistently good starter, it will be the most productive quarterback they'll have had in decades. This management team knows they have to come away with a QB in this draft and had to try and keep Buffalo from trading up.

They didn't give up next year's first, just a couple of 2nds which they typically draft poorly in anyway. Just have to hope they nail this pick.

 

[blood gin]

I've been saying it.

if the Giants are not convinced of any of the QBs at 2, they should trade back. They could get a haul.

This is not a draft with 4 Marino's but I think these QB's all have fairly high upsides. They may not be convinced, but I think they're wrong in their assessment.

They could've called the Jets, or maybe the Jets called them. Jets are happy with 3 now but I'm sure they would've loved two. There was a haul to be had. The 6th. Two seconds in 2018. A 2019 second. Where were they?

 

[blood gin]

Jets' fans should use a #MeToo hashtag, because they got RAPED in that trade.

Realistically, unless their pick essentially makes the Hall of Fame, they just lost that trade.

This is an outstanding trade if they land a QB of the future. Doesn't have to be Hall of Fame. But if they get a very good long term QB and the rest just turn out to be so-so guys then they'll win it. Time will tell.

 

[blood gin]

Why not just draft Barkley?

You can always find outstanding backs in later rounds. They desperately need a QB too. Heck they need a lot.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

The Redskins traded 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to go from 6 to 2 to draft RGIII. Considering that, the Jets did pretty well IMO. Not trading next years 1st is huge.

If the Jets get their franchise qb with this pick, it is a trade you make again no questions asked. It's worth the risk.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is an outstanding trade if they land a QB of the future. Doesn't have to be Hall of Fame.

I disagree. And I'm consistent on this, especially as an Eagles fan.

When the Eagles traded for the #2 pick used on Carson Wentz, they traded a WHOPPING:


First round in 2016
Third-round pick in 2016
Fourth-round pick in 2016
First-round pick in 2017
Second-round pick in 2018

I was SCREAMING IN ANGER because it seemed so completely insane. That said, a few years later it appears Carson Wentz will be a Manning or Brady long-term QB.

So I was wrong, right? Well, I guess, but statistically I'd argue I was correct, and the Eagles were EXTREMELY fortunate that their scouts were correct on Wentz. In other words, the Eagles were LUCKY.

The odds of this lighting being caught in a bottle again IMO are small,and the risk the Jets are taking (just as the Eagles took) is astoundingly high.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The Redskins traded 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to go from 6 to 2 to draft RGIII.

Yup. This is pretty much exactly my point.

 

[blood gin]

They have to have more than one guy they have graded in that franchise QB tier otherwise this is a ridiculous trade. There's obviously a chance two QB's get taken so it would be a QB3 selection, or a QB2 if Barkley goes in the top two. If they have any fewer than three QB's rated as potential franchise guys this goes from gamble to extremely reckless.

There's also a slight possibility they have two QB's and Barkley rated above everyone else but trading up for a RB would be insane.

Plus the Jets signed Isaiah Crowell for three years with the intent of him getting the bulk of the carries. I don't think they have any interest in a RB here. Many Jets fans wanted Dalvin Cook last year. Maccagnan passed and Cook tore his knee up. Who knows if he'll ever be the same.

 

[blood gin]

Well to me personally RG3 was overhyped from the beginning and I didn't like that trade. I like the top three QB's of this draft to all have long, productive careers. The top three quarterbacks this year impress me more than Griffin did and certainly way more than the guy the Bears drafted last season.

 

[blood gin]

I disagree. And I'm consistent on this, especially as an Eagles fan.

When the Eagles traded for the #2 pick used on Carson Wentz, they traded a WHOPPING:


First round in 2016
Third-round pick in 2016
Fourth-round pick in 2016
First-round pick in 2017
Second-round pick in 2018

I was SCREAMING IN ANGER because it seemed so completely insane. That said, a few years later it appears Carson Wentz will be a Manning or Brady long-term QB.

So I was wrong, right? Well, I guess, but statistically I'd argue I was correct, and the Eagles were EXTREMELY fortunate that their scouts were correct on Wentz. In other words, the Eagles were LUCKY.

The odds of this lighting being caught in a bottle again IMO are small,and the risk the Jets are taking (just as the Eagles took) is astoundingly high.

That's fair it's not crazy to think the Jets (and Eagles back then) gave up way too much. I don't think them getting lucky with Wentz though has any effect on todays Jets move. Lots of things could happen here. I mean maybe the QB turns into a very average starter, but the 3 picks they gave up all turn out to be terrible (and the three guys the Jets would've taken in those slots all would've been terrible too) or maybe the Colts take 3 pro bowlers but the Jets take a Hall of Fame QB and all contribute to Super Bowl teams down the line. Lots of different ways this can play out. It's just going to take time.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Buffalo is in a tough spot after the NYJ trade, if they want to move up into the top-5 it almost has to be #2 and that's going to cost a LOT.

My buddy who works for the local sports talk radio channel keeps telling me moving up to 2 and grabbing Rosen would be worth it but that price would still be pretty crazy.

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't disagree three 2's are a lot to move up three spots but there's always a QB premium to be paid and the Jets' record of drafting 2nd rounders historically makes David Conte's post-2000 look like great drafting so it bothers me less they gave up three 2's than it should (especially when one of those 2's was in the Richardson trade where we also got Jermaine Kearse). Not counting Marcus Maye the Jets' last quality 2nd round pick was David Harris who just RETIRED. Our last 2nd round Pro Bowler was Mark Gastineau

New York Jets All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Can't even come up with a lot of other quality second rounders from the mid '80's on...Matt O'Dwyer and Lamont Jordan had decent NFL careers, same with Randy Thomas. Dennis Byrd was cut down too soon but my goodness our second round picks are one consistent pile of suck.

 

[Billdo]

Jets' fans should use a #MeToo hashtag, because they got RAPED in that trade.

Realistically, unless their pick essentially makes the Hall of Fame, they just lost that trade.

That’s a bit excessive. That’s a typical trade going up three spots in the top 10. I wouldn’t say raped. They essentially just gave them three second rounders to move up 3 spots. That’s not THAT bad in the NFL. If they hit on their QB at 3 then it doesn’t even matter. If they miss it’s still not bad.

 

[tr83]

That’s a bit excessive. That’s a typical trade going up three spots in the top 10. I wouldn’t say raped. They essentially just gave them three second rounders to move up 3 spots. That’s not THAT bad in the NFL. If they hit on their QB at 3 then it doesn’t even matter. If they miss it’s still not bad.

Could have been a lot worse

This is Macc's last stand. If his drafting is poor here, he's going down.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Buffalo is in a tough spot after the NYJ trade, if they want to move up into the top-5 it almost has to be #2 and that's going to cost a LOT.

My buddy who works for the local sports talk radio channel keeps telling me moving up to 2 and grabbing Rosen would be worth it but that price would still be pretty crazy.

I wouldn't touch Rosen with a 10ft pole.

 

[Billdo]

Buffalo almost has to trade down to four at this point.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yes, the Jets lost the trade "value wise", but if they are able to find their QB for the next decade plus then who is going to care about an extra 2nd round pick? They kept their first next year which is huge for them

and this is coming from a guy who hates the Jets

 

[NJDevs26]

Buffalo almost has to trade down to four at this point.

Up you mean...but if the first three picks are QB's, the Browns are staying put and picking Barkley.

 

[Billdo]

Up you mean...but if the first three picks are QB's, the Browns are staying put and picking Barkley.

That’s what I meant yeah. They have to make Cleveland an offer they can’t refuse unless they trade with the Giants. Unless they’re ok with sucking this coming year and getting a high pick again.