2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[CanaFan]

You know, cap space doesnt matter

I view it more as flunking a practice exam. It doesn’t matter but it’s a pretty bad sign for how you’re gonna do when the real thing comes along.

 

[Hansen]

Do you argue with your boss?Dorsett earned every penny of that contract.The Sbisa one was bad but they don't have a crystal ball and it worked out because Vegas took him.If Vegas is run by such geniuses,why did they take Sbisa?

If I feel that my boss is making decisions that are seriously impacting the wellbeing and direction of the company and my role is supposed to be exactly that of assisting him in his management, I will absolutely argue against them.

If I'm a boss I don't want people who nod their head and act busy every time I'm in the room, I want people who are able to come up with out of the box solutions and always think critically about what they are doing and my management of them. The difference between a good boss and a bad boss is the ability to walk the line of keeping a firm hand while being able to receive input or bending too easily and inversely not bending at all.

Benning made it very clear that he is the kind who doesn't want any sort of dissenting opinion and only wants people who will tow the company line when he removed Gilman and Henning

 

[Fire Benning]

You know management is bad when they go over the cap (due to performance bonuses) despite having one of the worst teams in the league.

But...but....cap space doesn't matter when you're rebuilding...

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If I feel that my boss is making decisions that are seriously impacting the wellbeing and direction of the company and my role is supposed to be exactly that of assisting him in his management, I will absolutely argue against them.

If I'm a boss I don't want people who nod their head and act busy every time I'm in the room, I want people who are able to come up with out of the box solutions and always think critically about what they are doing and my management of them. The difference between a good boss and a bad boss is the ability to walk the line of keeping a firm hand while being able to receive input or bending too easily and inversely not bending at all.

Benning made it very clear that he is the kind who doesn't want any sort of dissenting opinion and only wants people who will tow the company line when he removed Gilman and Henning

Nonsense...when regimes change,you get to bring in your own people (look at Toronto)...fact..,and trying to paint Benning as some totalitarian dictatorship is also false...In fact,I think its safer to say that Trevor Linden pulls more strings in that department.

 

[Hansen]

Nonsense...when regimes change,you get to bring in your own people (look at Toronto)...fact..,and trying to paint Benning as some totalitarian dictatorship is also false...In fact,I think its safer to say that Trevor Linden pulls more strings in that department.

Yes, it became immensely clear that Gilman and Henning weren't "Benning People" and that the direction that he wanted was not what they provide, for worse or for worserer

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But...but....cap space doesn't matter when you're rebuilding...

It does matter,but not half as much as when you have a competitive roster with elite players...The Canucks don't have a trifecta of star players like Edmonton or Toronto,we have Bo Horvat,....Eventually,Boeser and Pettersson (assuming he works out) will have to be paid...which will work itself out fine.

Eriksson is obviously the booboo there..Gagner has two more years...Sutters NTC gets modified after this season (Benning has had more calls on Sutter than any other player)...Cap wise..Canucks are in good shape.

 

[Peter10]

Nonsense...when regimes change,you get to bring in your own people (look at Toronto)...fact..,and trying to paint Benning as some totalitarian dictatorship is also false...In fact,I think its safer to say that Trevor Linden pulls more strings in that department.

Whether it was Linden, Benning or both but its quite clear there philosophical difference between Gilman/Henning and the new regime and that was the reason they were let go.

Iain MacIntyre: Changing Canucks' makeup ‘hard’ for GM Jim Benning

Benning: Change is hard. I like Laurence and Lorne and Eric. They’re good people. But that’s part of what happens when there’s change at the top. You need to be unified through the ranks and that’s what we’ve tried to do.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Whether it was Linden, Benning or both but its quite clear there philosophical difference between Gilman/Henning and the new regime and that was the reason they were let go.

Iain MacIntyre: Changing Canucks' makeup ‘hard’ for GM Jim Benning

Its a standard procedure in the NHL.....and probably in a lot businesses..Gilman,Henning and Crawford were all Gillis people.

Of course there would be philosophical differences....the whole idea of bringing in new management is to inspire 'change'.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Its a standard procedure in the NHL.....and probably in a lot businesses..Gilman,Henning and Crawford were all Gillis people.

AV was a Nonis coach yet Gillis kept him around. You're not wrong with your comment though. But I think we can think beyond that and suggest that Benning, like Gillis, should have been more focused on keeping the best people for the job around rather than bringing in his buddies. That's not just a Benning criticism though, that's a criticism for most managers.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

AV was a Nonis coach yet Gillis kept him around. You're not wrong with your comment though. But I think we can think beyond that and suggest that Benning, like Gillis, should have been more focused on keeping the best people for the job around rather than bringing in his buddies. That's not just a Benning criticism though, that's a criticism for most managers.

Fair statement...Didnt Benning/Linden keep these guys around for a year or two to evaluate?..They were not fired on the spot..Thats more than fair.

Out of those moves I'm sure that we all can agree that replacing Crawford with Brackett was a positive.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Fair statement...Didnt Benning/Linden keep these guys around for a year or two to evaluate?..They were not fired on the spot..Thats more than fair.

Out of those moves I'm sure that we all can agree that replacing Crawford with Brackett was a positive.

Sure, but I still believe the reasons they were let go was because they weren't on board with what Benning was doing. Hence Linden's "they were without direction" comment. I truly believe that they wanted a bunch of yes-men and that's why John Weisbrod was brought in. Someone who thinks just like Benning does.

I don't see why we couldn't have kept both Crawford and Brackett. I do think it's good that we have Brackett in the position he's in, and would rather have seen Ron Delorme purged instead (along with almost all Canuck alumni who have been given cushy scouting jobs, Gradin being the exception as he's actually performed well in his role).

 

[absolute garbage]

Well it depends on how you measure it of course. Using my measurement of NHL TOI of players taken by the team compared to TOI of players taken by potato, no teams have consistently outperformed it. Carolina is the best team since 2010 but even they are only at 84%.

Having said that, you might look at some of the players taken and evaluate things differently. This is obviously a crude metric and sells short certain players while overrating others. Obviously a player like Boeser is better than this metric would indicate, but I need to use something. I am open to suggestions.

If you change the time-line to 2014-2017 then Boston comes close to out-performing, at 91%. PArt of the problem here though is over-crediting players who make the NHL early.

Isn't this a problem just in general when evaluating drafts one or two years in?

Who did the best if you change the timeline to 2010-2014? To get rid of that peaking-early noise and not discrediting players who took their time. Or maybe even 2010-2013, because when you look at the 2014 draft, there's still players there who probably will have good careers but have barely gotten started (like Donato, or how Bennett has played 1500 minutes more than say Montour who will clearly have a much better career).

 

[Fire Benning]

Benning saying they are not looking to move Tanev.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Sure, but I still believe the reasons they were let go was because they weren't on board with what Benning was doing. Hence Linden's "they were without direction" comment. I truly believe that they wanted a bunch of yes-men and that's why John Weisbrod was brought in. Someone who thinks just like Benning does.

I don't see why we couldn't have kept both Crawford and Brackett. I do think it's good that we have Brackett in the position he's in, and would rather have seen Ron Delorme purged instead (along with almost all Canuck alumni who have been given cushy scouting jobs, Gradin being the exception as he's actually performed well in his role).

If you just got hired as a GM for a pro hockey team,wouldn't you want someone working with you. who is aligned with your vision?...The other guys have had their chance...Its not taking anything away from their capabilities,its just time for a different voice (like the firing of AV).

Eric Crawford,like his brother..has a very strong personality,and is not short of any opinion ..(pretty much the opposite of Brackett)..so I can see that..I didn't mind Crawford tbh,but in order to give a guy like Brackett complete authority,sometimes these moves have to be made....(interesting note.it was on Crawfords high recommendation that Gillis trade Hodgson for Kassian,instead of John Carlson or Brandon Sutter)

 

[timw33]

Benning saying they are not looking to move Tanev.

Ok so we're trying to compete again.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If you just got hired as a GM for a pro hockey team,wouldn't you want someone working with you. who is aligned with your vision?...The other guys have had their chance...Its not taking anything away from their capabilities,its just time for a different voice (like the firing of AV).

Eric Crawford,like his brother..has a very strong personality,and is not short of any opinion ..(pretty much the opposite of Brackett)..so I can see that..I didn't mind Crawford tbh,but in order to give a guy like Brackett complete authority,sometimes these moves have to be made....(interesting note.it was on Crawfords high recommendation that Gillis trade Hodgson for Kassian,instead of John Carlson or Brandon Sutter)

Not necessarily. If I were hired as a GM for a pro hockey team I would surround myself with the smartest management team I could find. Everyone shares the same vision (everyone wants to win). I would want people who think different from me, and who can articulate their opinions in a constructive manner. If everyone thought the same way I did and I was wrong about something that would lead to a massive failure. That would lead to a team like the Canucks.

John Weisbrod has exactly the same traits you used to describe Eric Crawford. I don't believe Brackett was really in charge until the 2017 draft. We'll see how much influence Weisbrod maintains; however, I am still of the opinion that he's one of the worst managers in sports.

Was John Carlson ever available for Hodgson?

 

[MS]

Ok so we're trying to compete again.

Actually - checks calendar - I believe we're in the March 1-June 30 'talk about prospects and the future' phase. The plan doesn't shift to competing now until July 1.

 

[timw33]

Actually - checks calendar - I believe we're in the March 1-June 30 'talk about prospects and the future' phase. The plan doesn't shift to competing now until July 1.

My mistake. I'll keep my "compete is in our nature" banner away until then.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Not necessarily. If I were hired as a GM for a pro hockey team I would surround myself with the smartest management team I could find. Everyone shares the same vision (everyone wants to win). I would want people who think different from me, and who can articulate their opinions in a constructive manner. If everyone thought the same way I did and I was wrong about something that would lead to a massive failure. That would lead to a team like the Canucks.

John Weisbrod has exactly the same traits you used to describe Eric Crawford. I don't believe Brackett was really in charge until the 2017 draft. We'll see how much influence Weisbrod maintains; however, I am still of the opinion that he's one of the worst managers in sports.

Was John Carlson ever available for Hodgson?

Elliott Friedman..2012
6. Vancouver "targeted" a few clubs that had the kind of player it wanted in exchange. Obviously, Buffalo was one (and Kassian was very high on the list). I believe the others were Carolina, Washington, Florida and one more I can't nail down. Don't know what the Canucks wanted from the Hurricanes. But, almost certain they asked for Brandon Sutter (can't see it, GM Jim Rutherford loves him) and an educated guess is the wanted Capital was young defenceman John Carlson.

They would have probably had to add for Carlson,...still looking for another old quote that goes more in depth about it...Gudbranson was also in the mix.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Actually - checks calendar - I believe we're in the March 1-June 30 'talk about prospects and the future' phase. The plan doesn't shift to competing now until July 1.

Yeah he should have said they are actually shopping around the league. What an idiot

 

[timw33]

Yeah he should have said they are actually shopping around the league. What an idiot

"We are not actively looking to move Chris, however, however, if there's a deal that makes sense—and this goes for any player—then it's something we're going to have to think about long and hard"

This is the kind of answer I expect from a club dedicated to rebuilding with a roster made up players that are not going to be around the next time we're good.

 

[ATypicalCanadian]

Elliott Friedman..2012
6. Vancouver "targeted" a few clubs that had the kind of player it wanted in exchange. Obviously, Buffalo was one (and Kassian was very high on the list). I believe the others were Carolina, Washington, Florida and one more I can't nail down. Don't know what the Canucks wanted from the Hurricanes. But, almost certain they asked for Brandon Sutter (can't see it, GM Jim Rutherford loves him) and an educated guess is the wanted Capital was young defenceman John Carlson.

They would have probably had to add for Carlson,...still looking for another old quote that goes more in depth about it...Gudbranson was also in the mix.

"We made a determination that he didn't want to be here, we built him into something we could move," Gillis said. "There were six young players that I would have traded him for if any of them were ever made available. One was made available at the trade deadline and it was Zack."

Linking that with what Friedman said at the time, I'm guessing they never got close with the other teams.

I can't quite recall the source, but from what I remember it was Sutter, Gudbranson, Carlson, Kassian(as mentioned) and Kyle Clifford from LA was the 5th(I think). I want to say Detroit was mentioned by someone too, but I might be wrong

Friedman also reported at the time that Dallas wanted Hodgson when Gillis tried for Steve Ott(eventually got Phalsson) and Toronto was tryimg to get him too.

 

[Ryp37]

Jim Benning on SN 650, "Pettersson can play all 3 forward positions. I've seen him play a couple games at centre & I thought he was good. At some point we envision him long-term being a centre ice man for us. There's a good chance he'll start at the wing."
Benning on Pettersson's size: "He's got such good balance on his skates and uses leverage to lean into players. We don't want him to put on too much weight, just gaining strength so he can continue to do what he's good at."

Been quite some time I’ve been happy with Jim’s comments

Benning on acquiring a center for Pettersson: "I'm talking to a lot of the teams in the league right now. We feel Adam Gaudette can come in and push for his spot on the team. But it's the unknown of Elias coming in, maybe he can play center"

Dunno what that means but can’t be good

 

[vancityluongo]

"Rebuild"

 

[Soups On]

Good. Unless teams come to Benning and offer a lot, there's no reason to move him. If the forwards and defense are gonna develop, they need someone like Tanev to stabilize the D core to serve as a perfect partner and get the puck to the forwards efficiently. Or ya know, we can just have Gudbranson bank it off the boards and pass to the oppositions goalie on the top pairing of Tanev is moved.