2017-18 Training Camp... let the games begin!

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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I must be the only one not surprised that Chabot was sent down to Belleville but I have been saying it would happen for some time simply because of the number of defencemen with one way contracts on the roster. He did look like he was playing himself onto the roster though in the first few preseason games but the last few brought him back to reality. I still expect PD to make a few moves to create an opening or two on the roster for Chabot by Christmas or early next yr. He also needs to pick up a forward soon so he can send Brown & Formenton back to junior & might be able to do both with one trade.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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In Boucher's system, Chabot is going to play RD ...... the LD closes"the trap" by stepping up in the neutral zone and taking out the puck carrier, which is not Chabot's skill set.
Chabot will likely adjust to the right side but lets say he is 85% as good as he is on the left side... do we leave him in the AHL until he can develop to be able to play both sides equally so he fits into Boucher's system... I asked this before... If that was Nick Lidstrom , who I never saw lay anyone out, yet he managed to be a pretty good defensemen none the less ... Do you not think he could pinch up in the neutral zone to disrupt play and create the turn over... you don't have to take a run at them from behind your net and hope you make contact... you need to step up and time it ... Phaneuf can hit, but he doesn't smack people everytime he steps up...Claesson isn't going to demolish anyone... I don't buy it. Chabot should play where he is going to be most effective. If he adusts to the right side , fine, if he has issues defending from there and with board play from there why force that issue just to satisfy Boucher's system. Chabot is a future star player. Does he need to develop parts of his game, sure, but the side he plays should be about where he can be at his best. If that's the left side and he has to step up ... then so be it.
 

BatherSeason

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When the Senators hired Chabot's Junior coach as an assistant coach for Belleville, it has a pretty pretty pretty pretty good sign that Chabot was headed to the AHL for further development. Also when they brought in Oduya to fill the spot that was made when Methot went to the Knights, it was going to require someone "to win a spot in the roster" during training camp ........ and on defense, no one did.

The writing has been on the wall for months. Chabot wasn't making this team, the coaching staff and management clearly had a plan with their D and that plan was Chabot starting in Belleville regardless of what happened in the preseason. Hiring his junior coach was the first sign.
 
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TheBradyBunch

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Dec 17, 2008
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Given that Chabot now appears destined for some time in the AHL, I started thinking about Sens DMen who permanently made the team without spending any time in the AHL. The last one I could think of was Meszaros, and the only other guys I could think of were Redden and Phillips. Am I missing anyone? Cowen would probably be the next closest, lol.
 

ChurchOfAlfie

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Dec 4, 2016
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Given that Chabot now appears destined for some time in the AHL, I started thinking about Sens DMen who permanently made the team without spending any time in the AHL. The last one I could think of was Meszaros, and the only other guys I could think of were Redden and Phillips. Am I missing anyone? Cowen would probably be the next closest, lol.

I guess technically Rundblad for a bit, before he was traded? Went from SEL to NHL.
 

Masked

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Apr 16, 2017
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Given that Chabot now appears destined for some time in the AHL, I started thinking about Sens DMen who permanently made the team without spending any time in the AHL. The last one I could think of was Meszaros, and the only other guys I could think of were Redden and Phillips. Am I missing anyone? Cowen would probably be the next closest, lol.

Stan Neckar and Sami Salo.
 
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TheBradyBunch

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Dec 17, 2008
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I guess technically Rundblad for a bit, before he was traded? Went from SEL to NHL.

That's one I didn't think of, but Rundblad played just as many AHL games as NHL games in his rookie season (all with Portland) and played far more AHL games than NHL games in his second season. I wouldn't count him, personally.
 

BonkTastic

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Nov 9, 2010
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Given that Chabot now appears destined for some time in the AHL, I started thinking about Sens DMen who permanently made the team without spending any time in the AHL. The last one I could think of was Meszaros, and the only other guys I could think of were Redden and Phillips. Am I missing anyone? Cowen would probably be the next closest, lol.

The only defencemen to have ever made the team out of training camp for the Sens without first playing in Junior are:
- Meszaros
- Rundblad
- Redden
- Phillips
- Rachunek (Played a handful of games as an Ottawa Senator before getting sent down to the AHL - technically he did make the NHL team first, though.
- Sami Salo
- Stanislav Neckar
- Radim Bicanek (same scenario as Rachunek)
 

TheBradyBunch

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Dec 17, 2008
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The only defencemen to have ever made the team out of training camp for the Sens without first playing in Junior are:
- Meszaros
- Rundblad
- Redden
- Phillips
- Rachunek (Played a handful of games as an Ottawa Senator before getting sent down to the AHL - technically he did make the NHL team first, though.
- Sami Salo
- Stanislav Neckar
- Radim Bicanek (same scenario as Rachunek)

Awesome, thanks!!

The only two who never played AHL/IHL are Meszaros and Phillips - Redden almost made the cut, too, until his demotion at the age of 33. Seems that all the other guys spend at least 5 games in the minors in their rookie seasons.

Also - it's rare I see a Sens player I'd never heard of before, but Bicanek makes the cut.
 

BatherSeason

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The writing has been on the wall for months. Chabot wasn't making this team, the coaching staff and management clearly had a plan with their D and that plan was Chabot starting in Belleville regardless of what happened in the preseason. Hiring his junior coach was the first sign.

Chabot was easily better than at least 4 of the guys starting the season in our top 6, it could even be argued that he was better than all 6, minus Saturday night's game where he struggled, but that just gave management a convenient excuse. Should be very interesting to see what the plan is going forward for the rest of this season. I would be very surprised if the first d-man call up is not Ben Harpur, because, you know, "Chabot is just too flashy, he needs more time to understand the pro game".

Funny how developing talent is so much different in the NBA than it is in the NHL. In the NBA, the "top prospect" learns by being part of the main roster. The NBA future star will play sheltered minutes while he earns the trust of the organization and the coach. The "second-tier" prospects are the ones that play in the D-League.

I know, I know, different sport.....
 

Korpse

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Do you understand the different roles the RD and the LD play in Boucher's system? Do want Chabot or Karlsson stepping up in the netraul zone (on LD) and taking out the puck carrier, and having Phaneuf and Borowiecki retrieving the puck and breaking out with it? The only place Chabot "fits" in Boucher's system, is on RD ................ unless you want the Senators to scrape their entire system, that they just learned and used last season, to accommodate a rookie, who at this time, did not make the team?


i understand how his system works. I think it's dumb. Do you understand the significant differences in playing your offside? I don't feel that put Chabot in a position to succeed and to me thats a major part of player development.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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I must be the only one not surprised that Chabot was sent down to Belleville but I have been saying it would happen for some time simply because of the number of defencemen with one way contracts on the roster. He did look like he was playing himself onto the roster though in the first few preseason games but the last few brought him back to reality. I still expect PD to make a few moves to create an opening or two on the roster for Chabot by Christmas or early next yr. He also needs to pick up a forward soon so he can send Brown & Formenton back to junior & might be able to do both with one trade.

Unless Karlsson is ready to be added to the active roster on day one, we have 6 healthy dmen right now, no? Oduya, Phaneuf, Ceci, Boro, Claesson and Wideman. I'm really surprised we sent down both Chabot and Harpur and the only logical reason I can see is that Karlsson is expected to miss zero games.
 

Masked

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Apr 16, 2017
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Nice, wouldn't have thought of either of those guys. They each played 15 and 5 games in the IHL, respectively, but they are close - in that Cowen realm ;)

Neckar is a bit of a special case because there was no NHL for him to play in when he was in the IHL because of the NHL lockout that season.
 

BatherSeason

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Jun 16, 2009
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Unless Karlsson is ready to be added to the active roster on day one, we have 6 healthy dmen right now, no? Oduya, Phaneuf, Ceci, Boro, Claesson and Wideman. I'm really surprised we sent down both Chabot and Harpur and the only logical reason I can see is that Karlsson is expected to miss zero games.

Our owner is Eugene Melnyk, have you seen our front office in relation to every other organization in the league? There is another logical reason for this: $$
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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Chabot will likely adjust to the right side but lets say he is 85% as good as he is on the left side... do we leave him in the AHL until he can develop to be able to play both sides equally so he fits into Boucher's system... I asked this before... If that was Nick Lidstrom , who I never saw lay anyone out, yet he managed to be a pretty good defensemen none the less ... Do you not think he could pinch up in the neutral zone to disrupt play and create the turn over... you don't have to take a run at them from behind your net and hope you make contact... you need to step up and time it ... Phaneuf can hit, but he doesn't smack people everytime he steps up...Claesson isn't going to demolish anyone... I don't buy it. Chabot should play where he is going to be most effective. If he adusts to the right side , fine, if he has issues defending from there and with board play from there why force that issue just to satisfy Boucher's system. Chabot is a future star player. Does he need to develop parts of his game, sure, but the side he plays should be about where he can be at his best. If that's the left side and he has to step up ... then so be it.


Chabot's strongest hockey traits, are his puck retrieval and starting the offensive breakout from the defensive zone .......... like Karlsson does. He also looks very good on the PP and OT, in the small sample size we've seen. So in BOucher's system, the best place for him is the RD position, so he can play to his strengths .............. playing him of the LD in Boucher's system, would suppress his puck retrieval and starting the offensive breakout from the defensive zone skills, and that would be like having (last year) Karlsson impeding the opponents attack in the netraul zone, on the LD side, and having Methot retrieve the puck and starting the breakout.



I think some people are way to overly concerned that he's a lefty, playing on the right side .......... he can, a will adapt to this system, and will be a better player for it overall.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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i understand how his system works. I think it's dumb. Do you understand the significant differences in playing your offside? I don't feel that put Chabot in a position to succeed and to me thats a major part of player development.


So what is your solution to this............ force Boucher to come up with a totally new system that allows Chabot to play LD? If so, is that just reversing the current system, and funnel the opposition to the RD side of the ice, and switch all the other D men to the other side? Wouldn't that put Karlsson on his "offside"? And then wouldn't there be a lot a fans complaining about that?


So what system would you suggest they use, in order to accommodate all the players, and have them always on their " normal side" ? Is there a team that uses this system?
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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Part of the problem imo is that some of his stronger traits as a LD aren't showing up with him playing RD. Holding the blueline in the OZ is more difficult on your offside, walking the blueline with the puck and bringing the play to the center ice is another trait he thrived at in junior but is more difficult on his offside.

Playing the RD role certainly maximizes his skillset in the DZ when facing the rush, but not so much in the OZ, and not so much when defending the cycle or against a one on one rush situation where he's the last man back and it's no longer about the system having him retrieve and distribute.

There are a lot of variables to account for; it's not just about retrieving vs stepping up.
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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Part of the problem imo is that some of his stronger traits as a LD aren't showing up with him playing RD. Holding the blueline in the OZ is more difficult on your offside, walking the blueline with the puck and bringing the play to the center ice is another trait he thrived at in junior but is more difficult on his offside.

Playing the RD role certainly maximizes his skillset in the DZ when facing the rush, but not so much in the OZ, and not so much when defending the cycle or against a one on one rush situation where he's the last man back and it's no longer about the system having him retrieve and distribute.

There are a lot of variables to account for; it's not just about retrieving vs stepping up.


All good points.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,471
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You would think that professional hockey players could play this system on either side of the rink as they do in Basketball. A 1-3-1 full court press objective is to push the ball carrier to their weak side & pounce on him for the pinch to try & create a turnover. The press is set up to go to either side of the court so why can't GB's system be equipped to press or pinch on either side of the ice the puck carrier is coming up? Maybe it has to do with Ottawa having smaller defencemen on the right side who are not hitters? Or that most NHL teams carry the puck up the left side more often?
 

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