Speculation: 2017-18 Sharks roster discussion II

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Pinkfloyd

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I disagree. Wingels is much better than Karlsson and always was. Karlsson may have better instincts but that's about all he does better. Karlsson just lacks some basic tools you need at NHL level.

You're going to have a tough time supporting that by anything resembling good quality evidence especially the past two seasons where Karlsson was statistically better than Wingels overall. Make no mention of the eye test because while Karlsson was disrupting other teams frequently, Wingels didn't do much of anything. It was why he got dealt. None of this even really matters because all that matters in the context of this thread and the potential for roster moves, Karlsson being able to be traded is highly likely and very likely without retention if the team really just wants to cut the cap space. I simply don't see the evidence to support otherwise. Just you saying omg Karlsson so bad doesn't mean that he can't be traded.
 

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You're going to have a tough time supporting that by anything resembling good quality evidence especially the past two seasons where Karlsson was statistically better than Wingels overall. Make no mention of the eye test because while Karlsson was disrupting other teams frequently, Wingels didn't do much of anything. It was why he got dealt. None of this even really matters because all that matters in the context of this thread and the potential for roster moves, Karlsson being able to be traded is highly likely and very likely without retention if the team really just wants to cut the cap space. I simply don't see the evidence to support otherwise. Just you saying omg Karlsson so bad doesn't mean that he can't be traded.
I never said that he couldn't get traded. I've seen worse trades happening and I said myself that there are lots of morons in charge of NHL clubs right now. Doesn't mean that it's likely to happen though. Only a stupid GM would even offer a cake to take on a bad player with a bad contract.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I never said that he couldn't get traded. I've seen worse trades happening and I said myself that there are lots of morons in charge of NHL clubs right now. Doesn't mean that it's likely to happen though. Only a stupid GM would even offer a cake to take on a bad player with a bad contract.

No you haven't but you've been saying it's unlikely and that's only marginally better. Players making 2 million especially when it only has two more years that score 20 points on average aren't going to be considered on bad contracts by pretty much anyone no matter what his warts are.
 

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No you haven't but you've been saying it's unlikely and that's only marginally better. Players making 2 million especially when it only has two more years that score 20 points on average aren't going to be considered on bad contracts by pretty much anyone no matter what his warts are.

Points aren't Karlsson's problem. His game with the puck is. He's weak on the puck, he can't stickhandle or pass properly. Him scoring a few garbage goals when playing tons of minutes with top6 linemates doesn't change that.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Points aren't Karlsson's problem. His game with the puck is. He's weak on the puck, he can't stickhandle or pass properly. Him scoring a few garbage goals when playing tons of minutes with top6 linemates doesn't change that.

Maybe but he's still got trade value.
 

Mattb124

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I disagree. Wingels is much better than Karlsson and always was. Karlsson may have better instincts but that's about all he does better. Karlsson just lacks some basic tools you need at NHL level.

Wingels had 2 good seasons and was a poorer contributor than Karlsson in every other season. Even in his one down season, Karlsson is producing better than Wingels.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Maybe. You never know:laugh:
...but if that's the case, Wilson should have sold long ago...

I don't see a point in time 'long ago' that it would've made sense to sell off Karlsson. Karlsson was a producer for them as a depth guy. Those guys only get sold off for draft picks or as part of a package. Sharks really haven't had anything like that happen and it's pointless for them to trade a producing player for draft picks like Karlsson had been the three years he's been here. It's not until this year that his play outside of production has actually made him a net negative.
 

Pistol Pete

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From LeBrun’s Latest article.
“College star to joins Sharks late in season?

Just like Charlie McAvoy did late last season for Boston (appearing in six playoff games) and Brock Boeser for Vancouver (signing and joining the Canucks in late March), I wonder if University of Denver forward Dylan Gambrell, following his college year, might end up signing and then joining the San Jose Sharks for the rest of this season. It’s certainly a possibility.
Gambrell, the Sharks’ second-round pick, 60th overall, in 2016, has 41 points in 34 games this season.”
 
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hohosaregood

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It'd be nice if Gambrell was NHL ready and slotted into the 4C and dominated. That'd be a nice pipe dream.
 

Beethovens 10th

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The 38 point Wingels or the 10 point Wingels?

I totally just had a vision of fat Elvis when typing that....

Hmmmm... interesting distinction, let’s define our terms. Kierkegaard would argue that Gambrell, apriori of course, would in the imperative match 38 point Wingels with 50% offensive zone starts presupposed. This is however moot; Kierks being unaware of the now established absolute truth of the Deboer Youth Anathema Axiom... Therefore one could at best postulate a first or second year no greater than 2006-2007 Patrick Rissmiller by simple inductive reasoning.

So fat Elvis.
 

Mattb124

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Hmmmm... interesting distinction, let’s define our terms. Kierkegaard would argue that Gambrell, apriori of course, would in the imperative match 38 point Wingels with 50% offensive zone starts presupposed. This is however moot; Kierks being unaware of the now established absolute truth of the Deboer Youth Anathema Axiom... Therefore one could at best postulate a first or second year no greater than 2006-2007 Patrick Rissmiller by simple inductive reasoning.

So fat Elvis.

With butter stick burrito in hand.
 
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do0glas

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Its amazing to witness an argument this long over melker karlsson lol.

I think deboer is aware. When a coach tries you on every line and then you end up on the 4th, hes aware of his deficiencies.

Unfortunate that ward is hurt and i think deboer has lost trust in hansen. Prolly why you see a healthy dose of karlsson every night.
 
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Mattb124

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Its amazing to witness an argument this long over melker karlsson lol.

The topic of 2/3 of the posts over the past 2 weeks was Dylan Demelo, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

When I think back when Eriah Hayes was our #1 call-up, I think we are suffering with an embarrassment of riches when it comes to 4th liners.
 

Gecklund

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Most members of this board realized by now that Karlsson is one of the main problems if not THE problem of the Sharks roster. He has the instincts of a goal scorer and he's decent against the puck but with the puck, he's just not good enough.. even lacking basics.

And in terms of the return...you never know. Some club gave up Smith to lose Marchessault while another one gave up Tuch to lose Haula. There are also well known fools in charge of Edmonton, Arizona and maybe also other franchises. So you never know. Can't hurt to give them a call. Wouldn't be the first dumb deal in the NHL. But do I think that Karlsson actually has some value? No. Better players with better contracts already cleared waivers this season.
So is this then Haley argument all over again? A 4th liner is THE reason for us losing games. Because that’s totally the problem. It’s not our top forwards can’t score or our top defenders didn’t defend well or the other team was just better. It’s that Karlsson is playing 10-12 minutes a game.

Also no. Florida gave up Smith to gain cap space. And Minnesota gave up Tuch to keep Dumba. Huge difference.
 

Gecklund

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The topic of 2/3 of the posts over the past 2 weeks was Dylan Demelo, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

When I think back when Eriah Hayes was our #1 call-up, I think we are suffering with an embarrassment of riches when it comes to 4th liners.
I liked Hayes...
 

Hinterland

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So is this then Haley argument all over again? A 4th liner is THE reason for us losing games. Because that’s totally the problem. It’s not our top forwards can’t score or our top defenders didn’t defend well or the other team was just better. It’s that Karlsson is playing 10-12 minutes a game.

Also no. Florida gave up Smith to gain cap space. And Minnesota gave up Tuch to keep Dumba. Huge difference.

Karlsson played almost 13:30 this season and mostly not where he should have. That's the problem. If he played 9,10 mins per game on the 4th line like Sorensen or Goodrow then maybe he'd be any good. Like that he's just downright awful and yes, he's a problem. Since DeBoer isn't gonna scratch his favourite toy anytime soon, Karlsson can't be gone soon enough.

Florida doesn't need capspace and never did...but even if, it's still stupid to give up two of your three top wingers at once for almost nothing.
You know, Dumba, Spurgeon and Brodin are all good defenders but Dumba still does lots of stupid stuff, Spurgeon is still too soft and Brodin will always remain a pure shutdown guy. On the offensive side, Haula is outscoring all of their protected forwards except Zucker and Tuch, if he stays healthy, is probably gonna do the same next season. So don't tell me that it was smart to throw away a physical, NHL-ready middle six two way forward just for Vegas to take one of teams top forwards:D
 

Hinterland

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Its amazing to witness an argument this long over melker karlsson lol.

I think deboer is aware. When a coach tries you on every line and then you end up on the 4th, hes aware of his deficiencies.

Unfortunate that ward is hurt and i think deboer has lost trust in hansen. Prolly why you see a healthy dose of karlsson every night.

Hansen did play very very well before DeBoer decided to perma scratch him all over again. Maybe DeBoer is aware of how terrible Karlsson is but he's in such a strange kind of love with Karlsson, he probably wouldn't scratch him for anybody.
 
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