Speculation: 2017-18 Sharks roster discussion II

[Hinterland]

Too bad. I had a glimpse of hope

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Too bad. I had a glimpse of hope

Waiving him would be stupid when you can get an asset for him in a trade during the off-season.

 

[Hinterland]

Waiving him would be stupid when you can get an asset for him in a trade during the off-season.

With his contract?
Sharks would have to retain and even then that's unlikely.

The most important thing is to take DeBoer his favorite toy away...he's not gonna be able to stay away from it...not on his own. So the day Karlsson is gone is a good day and I honestly don't care where or for what as long as the Sharks don't have to pay for it...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With his contract?
Sharks would have to retain and even then that's unlikely.

The most important thing is to take DeBoer his favorite toy away...he's not gonna be able to stay away from it...not on his own. So the day Karlsson is gone is a good day and I honestly don't care where or for what as long as the Sharks don't have to pay for it...

They wouldn't have to retain to trade a 2 mil contract with two seasons left. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Hinterland]

They wouldn't have to retain to trade a 2 mil contract with two seasons left. Don't be ridiculous.

I realized by now that you're in a Pete kind of love with Karlsson so I hate to give you a reality check but Karlsson is downright awful. The worst Sharks forward by all accounts and I honestly don't see why anyone would want him and his crazy contract for free. The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I realized by now that you're in a Pete kind of love with Karlsson so I hate to give you a reality check but Karlsson is downright awful. The worst Sharks forward by all accounts and I honestly don't see why anyone would want him and his crazy contract for free. The sooner he's gone the better.

Is this the kind of childish responses you resort to just because I'm not completely joining in with you on the Karlsson-bashing. I've already stated numerous times he's having a bad season. That doesn't blind me from knowing that he can return an asset and they can do so without retaining if they so choose. I can't say the same for you but your player valuations in the trade market have always been shoddy.

 

[Gecklund]

I realized by now that you're in a Pete kind of love with Karlsson so I hate to give you a reality check but Karlsson is downright awful. The worst Sharks forward by all accounts and I honestly don't see why anyone would want him and his crazy contract for free. The sooner he's gone the better.

He’d return something. It’s sure as hell not going to be a 1st but Tyler Kennedy returned a 2nd. Karlsson could return at least a 4th or 5th.

 

[Hinterland]

He’d return something. It’s sure as hell not going to be a 1st but Tyler Kennedy returned a 2nd. Karlsson could return at least a 4th or 5th.

If that's the case then why the heck is that guy still with the Sharks? Honestly. Wilson deserves to be fired the minute after rejecting a 5th for Karlsson. Half of the Barracuda forward group could do better. Karlsson can't even play a stretch pass. He has hands of wood. He never was any better and he's not gonna get any better. Somebody tell Pete.

 

[The Nemesis]

If that's the case then why the heck is that guy still with the Sharks? Honestly. Wilson deserves to be fired the minute after rejecting a 5th for Karlsson. Half of the Barracuda forward group could do better. Karlsson can't even play a stretch pass. He has hands of wood. He never was any better and he's not gonna get any better. Somebody tell Pete.

Well, it's good to know that you're not jumping to crazy conclusions or being ridiculously hyperbolic or anything. Because that'd be the sort of thing that would tend to alienate the rest of the community and make it difficult to have an actual discussion.

You know, just as an example.

 

[Hinterland]

Well, it's good to know that you're not jumping to crazy conclusions or being ridiculously hyperbolic or anything. Because that'd be the sort of thing that would tend to alienate the rest of the community and make it difficult to have an actual discussion.

You know, just as an example.

Most members of this board realized by now that Karlsson is one of the main problems if not THE problem of the Sharks roster. He has the instincts of a goal scorer and he's decent against the puck but with the puck, he's just not good enough.. even lacking basics.

And in terms of the return...you never know. Some club gave up Smith to lose Marchessault while another one gave up Tuch to lose Haula. There are also well known fools in charge of Edmonton, Arizona and maybe also other franchises. So you never know. Can't hurt to give them a call. Wouldn't be the first dumb deal in the NHL. But do I think that Karlsson actually has some value? No. Better players with better contracts already cleared waivers this season.

 

[Jaleel619]

Deboer likes guys that hop over the boards with energy, that's 100% karlsson. Also... Id really like to see Heed QBing the 2nd PP.

 

[KarlssonsGroin]

They wouldn't have to retain to trade a 2 mil contract with two seasons left. Don't be ridiculous.

this. thats horrible management to retain on a 2m a year contract. Like retaining him for the MAX of 50% is basically equivalent to burying him in the minors in terms of cap hit.... but you can only have 3 retained contracts. Any smart GM wouldnt waste one of those spots to save the same amount as burying him

and numerous teams will be looking for warm bodies to fill out the roster and have the cap room.

I cold definitely see a team like the Rangers throwing us a 5th or a 6th for him.

 

[Dicdonya]

Karlsson has been unquestionably terrible this year, but lets not pretend this is the norm for him.

Hes no stud, but this year is the outlier for sure so far in his career. Taking a look at his stats from his first three seasons, compared to this year, its fairly obvious something is wrong this year.

p/60	cf%	ff%	gf%	xGF%	iSH$	ZS%	QOC TOI	QOC CORSI
1.53	51.98	52.91	52.38	52.89	11.48	51.12	28.92	49.81
1.11	44.66	43.56	42.12	46.36	12.07	43.00	28.94	49.90

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He was a positive possession player until this year, where he is atrocious. This year he has slightly tougher competition, and considerably worse zone starts, might be the major cause. Deboer is using him as a defensive forward exclusively, and hes failing at it.

Unfortunately, Deboer doesnt seem to care that Karlsson is blowing, and continues to utilize him on the 4th line(or 2nd line with cooch/hertl, another defensive line) much to the detriment of the team. So unless Deboer changes up how to deploys his lines to more evenly balance zone starts, or realizes that Karlsson isnt that great a defensive forward, he will continue to suck.

If we can trade Karlsson, I wouldnt bat an eye. He probably does have some value still, based on his previous seasons being a perfectly fine 4th liner who call fill a hole higher up in the lineup in a pinch. However his value will diminish further if he plays another season here, and Deboer utilizes him in the same way.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

this. thats horrible management to retain on a 2m a year contract. Like retaining him for the MAX of 50% is basically equivalent to burying him in the minors in terms of cap hit.... but you can only have 3 retained contracts. Any smart GM wouldnt waste one of those spots to save the same amount as burying him

and numerous teams will be looking for warm bodies to fill out the roster and have the cap room.

I cold definitely see a team like the Rangers throwing us a 5th or a 6th for him.

If the Sharks wanted to increase the return slightly, retaining even on a contract like Karlsson is certainly an option when the Sharks don't use all those retention spots. I'd expect that more on Boedker even with his current run increasing his value or Paul Martin to just get him somewhere for an opportunity in the NHL but not Karlsson unless a team needs it and is willing to pay a little bit better of a draft pick for us to help them out. There will be a lot of teams lining up to take Karlsson off our hands if we need to simply because he's the type of players coaches love because of his perceived effort. He has similar characteristics to Tommy Wingels in the effort department.

 

[Jaleel619]

DeMelo said Martin helped him devise a strategy for approaching the Sharks coaching staff when he was frustrated about his playing time. With Martin’s help, DeMelo eventually locked down a regular spot on the blue line in December.

“Our coaching staff has an open-door policy, but sometimes, as a young guy, you don’t know what to say,” DeMelo said. “I talked to Paulie, and he’d say, you might want to say this or approach it this way. For me, he’s been just amazing.
“He’s one of the best teammates I’ve ever had.”

Now we know!

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

DeMelo said Martin helped him devise a strategy for approaching the Sharks coaching staff when he was frustrated about his playing time. With Martin’s help, DeMelo eventually locked down a regular spot on the blue line in December.

“Our coaching staff has an open-door policy, but sometimes, as a young guy, you don’t know what to say,” DeMelo said. “I talked to Paulie, and he’d say, you might want to say this or approach it this way. For me, he’s been just amazing.
“He’s one of the best teammates I’ve ever had.”

Now we know!

Do you have a source for these quotes?

 

[Hinterland]

Karlsson has been unquestionably terrible this year, but lets not pretend this is the norm for him.

Hes no stud, but this year is the outlier for sure so far in his career. Taking a look at his stats from his first three seasons, compared to this year, its fairly obvious something is wrong this year.

p/60	cf%	ff%	gf%	xGF%	iSH$	ZS%	QOC TOI	QOC CORSI
1.53	51.98	52.91	52.38	52.89	11.48	51.12	28.92	49.81
1.11	44.66	43.56	42.12	46.36	12.07	43.00	28.94	49.90

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He was a positive possession player until this year, where he is atrocious. This year he has slightly tougher competition, and considerably worse zone starts, might be the major cause. Deboer is using him as a defensive forward exclusively, and hes failing at it.

Unfortunately, Deboer doesnt seem to care that Karlsson is blowing, and continues to utilize him on the 4th line(or 2nd line with cooch/hertl, another defensive line) much to the detriment of the team. So unless Deboer changes up how to deploys his lines to more evenly balance zone starts, or realizes that Karlsson isnt that great a defensive forward, he will continue to suck.

If we can trade Karlsson, I wouldnt bat an eye. He probably does have some value still, based on his previous seasons being a perfectly fine 4th liner who call fill a hole higher up in the lineup in a pinch. However his value will diminish further if he plays another season here, and Deboer utilizes him in the same way.

Trust me, you don't wanna see Karlsson in a more offensive role. We all know that he loses almost every puck he gets in the offensive zone...and when he doesn't then he usually manages to kill the scoring chance at least. The guy has good instincts but is just plain and simply lacking some of the basics to be able to execute some hockey plays. He may have scored a bit more in recent years but he always had terrible hands/coordination. For a 4th liner he's also exceptionally weak on the puck. The one thing he's good at besides scoring garbage goals is backchecking/PK. If he can't do this without hurting the team then he's useless at NHL level. Karlsson is an offensive black hole and a team needs to be desperate as f*** to use him in an offensive role.

 

[Dicdonya]

Trust me, you don't wanna see Karlsson in a more offensive role. We all know that he loses almost every puck he gets in the offensive zone...and when he doesn't then he usually manages to kill the scoring chance at least. The guy has good instincts but is just plain and simply lacking some of the basics to be able to execute some hockey plays. He may have scored a bit more in recent years but he always had terrible hands/coordination. For a 4th liner he's also exceptionally weak on the puck. The one thing he's good at besides scoring garbage goals is backchecking/PK. If he can't do this without hurting the team then he's useless at NHL level. Karlsson is an offensive black hole and a team needs to be desperate as **** to use him in an offensive role.

Karlsson has been a fine 4th liner up until this year. I never said make him an offensive player, just that its very clear this year that being on the shutdown lines, is something he is failing at.

He is fine on the PK, he blocks shots, hits some, and shows tons of effort, plus a decent sprinkling of offense. The whole discussion was about whether we could get any assets for him. Based on those things, Im sure we could get atleast a late pick for him.

 

[hohosaregood]

Do you have a source for these quotes?

How the Sharks avoided Tom Brady, Jimmy Garopollo-like drama

LS posted it in the sharks news thread

 

[Hinterland]

If the Sharks wanted to increase the return slightly, retaining even on a contract like Karlsson is certainly an option when the Sharks don't use all those retention spots. I'd expect that more on Boedker even with his current run increasing his value or Paul Martin to just get him somewhere for an opportunity in the NHL but not Karlsson unless a team needs it and is willing to pay a little bit better of a draft pick for us to help them out. There will be a lot of teams lining up to take Karlsson off our hands if we need to simply because he's the type of players coaches love because of his perceived effort. He has similar characteristics to Tommy Wingels in the effort department.

Just that Wingels is just plain and simply better than Karlsson. There are many AHLers loved for their efforts but they're just not good enough for the NHL. Karlsson is a similar case. He might be useful in a very reduced 4th line/PK role but the way he's used now he's not even close from NHL level. Wingels can play both center and wing, is much stronger on the puck and also does damage physically. Karlsson hardly ever finishes his checks and for an energy guy his hit rate is pretty low anyway.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Hinterland]

Karlsson has been a fine 4th liner up until this year. I never said make him an offensive player, just that its very clear this year that being on the shutdown lines, is something he is failing at.

He is fine on the PK, he blocks shots, hits some, and shows tons of effort, plus a decent sprinkling of offense. The whole discussion was about whether we could get any assets for him. Based on those things, Im sure we could get atleast a late pick for him.

I don't even like his effort. I've never seen him finish a check, wipe out somebody. His hit rate is also very low for a 4th liner with that much ice time. If you compare that to a Goodrow or Wingels then they just offer much much more. Unlike Karlsson they're also good enough to hold on the the puck in the offensive zone and get some cycling going. Maybe Karlsson would do better with less ice time.

 

[DG93]

Excellent. Labanc adds a big spark to that top PP unit...it should open up more space for Burns.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Just that Wingels is just plain and simply better than Karlsson. There are many AHLers loved for their efforts but they're just not good enough for the NHL. Karlsson is a similar case. He might be useful in a very reduced 4th line/PK role but the way he's used now he's not even close from NHL level. Wingels can play both center and wing, is much stronger on the puck and also does damage physically. Karlsson hardly ever finishes his checks and for an energy guy his hit rate is pretty low anyway.

Not at the time Wingels was traded. Wingels was horrific his last season with the Sharks. Karlsson was and is able to produce more while being pinned in his own zone more than Wingels did that year. Hell, Karlsson that year outplayed Wingels and was a big reason why Wingels got dealt. Using the Wingels playing a center as a point helps him about as much as it does Karlsson. Both can do it but neither should because they're better wingers and not good as centers. The only thing that really matters is that Karlsson has enough of a track record to believe that he can do better than what he's doing this year from a possession standpoint and that he's still producing which is going to get him some interest in the off-season for what his contract is. If the Sharks need to move him, they can and they can do so without retaining if they choose. However, the only scenario where that likely occurs is if they sign Tavares and that's doubtful. Other than that, his contract doesn't prevent the Sharks from doing what they want and it's not some albatross that they will have to pay to get rid of. That's Paul Martin and only Paul Martin at this stage. Boedker and Karlsson can be traded for late draft picks most likely.

 

[Hinterland]

Not at the time Wingels was traded. Wingels was horrific his last season with the Sharks. Karlsson was and is able to produce more while being pinned in his own zone more than Wingels did that year. Hell, Karlsson that year outplayed Wingels and was a big reason why Wingels got dealt. Using the Wingels playing a center as a point helps him about as much as it does Karlsson. Both can do it but neither should because they're better wingers and not good as centers. The only thing that really matters is that Karlsson has enough of a track record to believe that he can do better than what he's doing this year from a possession standpoint and that he's still producing which is going to get him some interest in the off-season for what his contract is. If the Sharks need to move him, they can and they can do so without retaining if they choose. However, the only scenario where that likely occurs is if they sign Tavares and that's doubtful. Other than that, his contract doesn't prevent the Sharks from doing what they want and it's not some albatross that they will have to pay to get rid of. That's Paul Martin and only Paul Martin at this stage. Boedker and Karlsson can be traded for late draft picks most likely.

I disagree. Wingels is much better than Karlsson and always was. Karlsson may have better instincts but that's about all he does better. Karlsson just lacks some basic tools you need at NHL level.