2017-18 San Antonio Rampage (AHL) and Colorado Eagles (ECHL)

[McMetal]

I think as good as the Eagles coaching staff has been at the ECHL level, there's a bit more tactical play at the next level and that's a whole new animal. I haven't watched many Eagles games so I can't comment on them specifically, but just saying it's not as simple as giving them AHL talent to work with and rolling with it.

I hope they go with a development focused coach this time with no short-term NHL ambitions. If Bednar ever does get the axe, I hope to god they actually hire an NHL experienced coach instead of another rookie. I'm not saying EV did a bad job at that considering that he really helped along tweeners like Lindholm, Toninato, and Siemens, but my dream would be a guy who is going to be around for a few years and bring some stability.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Wait what? Is EV out? What happened? Googled it and nothing.

 

[Avsrule2022]

how do the balance a fun style of play to endear the team with the fans & developing guys for the NHL?

That is the golden question. All I can do is cross my fingers on that one.

For what it's worth, I've been consistently impressed with the progress our kids have made during their ECHL stints.

Love to hear that from someone "outside", and I totally agree. Guys sent down last year and this year have been really receptive to the coaching and what they are asked to do. No pouting at being sent down, which is the opposite of my experience at this level.

 

[cgf]

That is the golden question. All I can do is cross my fingers on that one.



Love to hear that from someone "outside", and I totally agree. Guys sent down last year and this year have been really receptive to the coaching and what they are asked to do. No pouting at being sent down, which is the opposite of my experience at this level.

What really impressed me was that it wasn't just guys I liked & thought had NHL futures, but who I knew we might need to be patient with during their transition to the AHL, like Meloche & Beaudin, that made clear progress with you guys. Even guys I have no NHL hopes for like Belzille, Geertsen & Boikov, were a lot better when they came back up from the ECHL than when they went down. That strong track record with every Avs property they got (that I can remember) is why I'd be curious to see how well they'd do developing talent at the AHL level...even if they weren't able to match their ECHL results on the scoreboard.

Guess we'll find out eventually if this isn't just making room for a different outsider to come in

...sucks that we no longer have Weiss to find out for us :-/ I'll miss him, shame there's no way to woo him to Colorado so he could cover the avs n eagles, cause he's miles ahead of Dater, AJ, Kizla, & college boy.

 

[Avalanche]

Nice little find by BSN

Schneekloth has a connection with current Avalanche head coach Jared Bednar as the two were teammates on the South Carolina Stingrays in 2001-02, Bednar’s last season as a professional player before retiring and going into coaching. Bednar began as an assistant coach for the Stingrays the next season when Schneekloth was still playing for the Stingrays.

 

[S E P H]

EV was a Roy hire so not surprised they didn't want to keep him. Now, Sakic and Bednar will get their own guy...not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm glad they're at least starting fresh, but I think we're going to see growing pains next year with the lack of prospects at the AHL level except on the back end. I can see us lose a lot of games 2-1 and 3-2 next year.

 

[LTC Pain]

Anybody know why the Eagles/Thunder first round series started in Wichita? Colorado clearly had the better win/loss record?

 

[MarkT]

EV was a Roy hire so not surprised they didn't want to keep him. Now, Sakic and Bednar will get their own guy...not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm glad they're at least starting fresh, but I think we're going to see growing pains next year with the lack of prospects at the AHL level except on the back end. I can see us lose a lot of games 2-1 and 3-2 next year.

Yeah I strongly suspect this. Now that Bednar has a little more solidity in his role, he probably has a little more influence in the organization as well, and he probably knows plenty of guys he would like to be coaching the AHL team to get guys ready to come up and play his style. As good as EV may have been, the fact is he was brought in to coach guys up to Roy's standards, not Bednar's. If Bednar is going to be our coach going forward, I want the AHL coach to be someone he trusts to teach our young guys to play the Bednar game, so when they come up they're completely ready to go. Maybe that's the current Eagles staff based on the connection that's been mentioned, but I'm certain Bednar knows guys all over the AHL and ECHL given his history.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

I really hope they keep the Eagles staff on. They clearly know what they'r doing and let's be honest, the difference between the ECHL and the AHL in terms of coaching is nothing compared to the leap to the NHL from the A.

Games are more tighter and more physical but the Eagles guys know how to win and have been dominant for a few years now there.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Anybody know why the Eagles/Thunder first round series started in Wichita? Colorado clearly had the better win/loss record?

Monster trucks at the BEC.

 

[Pokecheque]

I could be wrong but I swore that I read the defending Calder Cup champions, the Grand Rapids Griffins, basically loaded up on AHL vets for their run, so more or less a minor-league version of their parent team.

I refuse to believe it's THAT hard to put together a winning AHL team, the formula can't be that elusive. I'm hoping, like many Avs fans, they take a look at the front office as well as the coaching staff.

 

[henchman21]

Buying an AHL title is certainly possible... and the Avs could go that route, but I think it takes away from what the AHL is supposed to be. IMO saying competitive and giving the kids a shot at making the playoffs (hopefully making it consistently) should be as much about winning as the Avs care. If players breakout and have a great season and run so be it, but the main part is to develop. With that, there has to be the right mix development and opportunity. There shouldn't be so many roadblocks that kids can't earn a spot, but they shouldn't be given spots they haven't earned either. They also shouldn't be put into roles that they are not ready for. This past season was kind of a mess with the Blues' shared affiliation... but there were only a limited amount of prospects that really needed to be worried about. Meloche, Martin, Beaudin, and Greer (I know some would want to thrown Nantel in here, but sorry... I've seen enough, the kid won't be NHL material)... the rest was pretty much filler or were injured (Kamenev). It was a mixed bag, but I don't think they did good or bad... somewhere in between.

Meloche had a rough start to the season, but as he got healthier his game improved. As that happened he was given a bigger and bigger role. His progression, IMO, went very well and I think this was a successful development season for him. I don't think he is NHL ready yet by any stretch and he should start next year in the AHL... but if he keeps on this trajectory, he will get some NHL time when injuries hit next season.

Martin... well, I think you can clearly say he isn't mentally good enough to be a starting professional goalie. There were questions last year about that and he has to prove them wrong to make something of his career now. I don't think this is a development fault, so much as a player just not having the mental part down.

With Beaudin I will fully be in the minority here. With the disclaimer that I don't think this went perfect by any stretch of the imagination... I think this season was a success for him. He always has trouble adapting to new levels of play. It is a part of his game and how he processes the play. It just takes him a while to get comfortable. His time in San Antonio was up and down (as I expected), but he showed some flashes and spurts of where I think it will click next season. His time in the ECHL has kept his confidence up. I fully expect him to solidify a top 9 role next year with the Eagles.

Greer is an incomplete because of the injuries and up and down of the season. I'd even lean towards a failure if I had to call it. Greer is the type of player that is willing to play any role and be coach into any way to help out his team. A very driven kid who will do whatever it takes to stay in a lineup. A problem with that is, they can be pigeon holed by coaches when they can play a physical, grind it out sort of game. I think Bednar did that while he was up in the NHL. I don't blame Greer for that, I blame the organization. They need to protect these kinds of players from themselves. Greer should have been in the AHL the whole season and told to develop his offensive game more. The skill set is there for him to be a 2nd liner, but you can't let him develop himself into Tom Wilson... which is where I fear this is going. I do feel Greer will be a NHL player in some capacity, but I think this season presents a missed opportunity to find some offense in his game. If they would have left him down, they wouldn't have missed a thing on the NHL club, while giving that chance to develop. If it didn't happen, they'd be in a similar spot as to now.

 

[Pokecheque]

Wait what? Is EV out? What happened? Googled it and nothing.

Yeah, it was reported by some French-Canadian outlet and then confirmed on Twitter by Haefele. Veilleux is out.

 

[Pokecheque]

As far as AHL coaches go, part of me wonders what would have happened had David Quinn not taken the job at BU. It really seemed like they were grooming him to take Sacco's place. Of course Roy's return might've put a pin in that anyway.

Is there really such a thing as an AHL "developmental" coach who doesn't have NHL ambitions? I don't really know of any real career AHL bench bosses, though I'm sure they're out there. Sylvain Lefebvre doesn't count though--he's just an awful coach who for some reason stays employed by the Habs.

I have no issue if they wish to promote Schneekloth and his staff. Give them a shot, can't be much worse than what we've seen before, right?

Something definitely went way wrong last year with the organization at both the NHL and AHL levels (though not the ECHL level obviously) . They made a point to hire a new AHL coach and implement the same system at both levels. Both teams completely collapsed down the stretch, and Veilleux more or less (at least this is what I'm told) started doing his own thing. Don't know if they ever got on the same page again after that.

 

[Pokecheque]

Whoops. Remember what I said about Lefebvre? Never mind...he got the pink slip today.

I wanted to share this post from a Habs fan friend of mine. This is more or less how you negate whatever net positives a guy like Trevor Timmins brings you in the draft. Avs need to take note...they have had their own issues with cronysim/nepotism.

Cronyism at its worst. Lefebvre, a Bergevin pal, was the head coach of the Habs' AHL affiliate for six years and up until this season had not produced a single NHLer of note and only made the playoffs once. Charles Hudon, a depth player, broke the cycle of futility. De La Rose and Scherbak might graduate too.

It's not entirely on him because he was joined doing what the team asked of him, but they were awful on his watch.

Tinordi was ruined because they asked him to hit and fight.
McCarron was ruined because he needed to work on speed and skating while they emphasized toughness.
Pateryn needed to leave to find success. Ditto Andrighetto.
Beaulieu has all the gifts in the world and hasn't put it together.
Leblanc was punished for being drafted by the old regime.
So many meh defencemen: Dietz, Lernout, Ellis, Drewiske, Johnston, Hanley, Didier, Parisi.

All that said, I kinda feel bad for the guy. He was my first "favorite" Avalanche player. I don't know why I picked him maybe because he played the same boring defensive game I did.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Highlights from games 1 and 2. Love the Barron hit at 1:00!

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Some not-so-fun charts looking at Spencer Martin's AHL career so far. I'd do a boring, large post in the Trade thread looking in-depth at our full goalie depth chart however my time is taken up at the moment with wedding stuff (speech, vows, keeping the fiancee from pulling her hair out, etc.). After the wedding though I'll have something up but for now you get three charts.

Note: Marcus is Marcus Hogberg and Zachary is Zach Fucale. Don't know why the chart cut their names.

 

[McMetal]

Less than 50% QS the last two seasons (if I'm reading that chart correctly). That is not good.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Less than 50% QS the last two seasons (if I'm reading that chart correctly). That is not good.

Member when our goalie stable looked decent/promising not so long ago lol. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Less than 50% QS the last two seasons (if I'm reading that chart correctly). That is not good.

Unfortunately that's right. Also even though Martin's QS% did go up a bit this year we see a lot more starts in the bad/really bad area. So looking at his GSAA/60 next we see that Martin's high's were meh and his low's were really low. The worst part is that he's just being left behind by his draft class. If he was in the middle of his draft class I wouldn't be overly worried but being that low in comparison is worrying as he's not trending up when everyone else is. I believe Martin will get next season to turn it around and if there isn't enough improvement (or anything below improvement) he's done.

Member when our goalie stable looked decent/promising not so long ago lol. Back to the drawing board.

And this is why you don't rely on a 3rd round pick at any position to be your saviour. He was a good prospect that had good a DY+2 and DY+3. Two years later and now we're looking at the next wave of prospects. It's the way things go and an important lesson in that you need to keep your goalie pipeline stocked. On the bright side Werner is at least looking good enough to take the next step into the AHL at some point.

 

[S E P H]

And this is why you don't rely on a 3rd round pick at any position to be your saviour. He was a good prospect that had good a DY+2 and DY+3. Two years later and now we're looking at the next wave of prospects. It's the way things go and an important lesson in that you need to keep your goalie pipeline stocked. On the bright side Werner is at least looking good enough to take the next step into the AHL at some point.

Still on this crazy opinion about how Avs should pick goalers with late 1sts and seconds still? Martin busted because he was a 3rd? Definitely disagree with your statements here, especially when the data is on the contrary. We as a league went through that faze during the 2000s when teams tried to solve their goaltending issues by picking them high and in the 1st round....besides a couple we kept going through notorious busts year after year.

In actuality, organizations started drafting goalers later because of all the ones who kept being busts in the 1st and 2nd. You mention Spencer Martin year and as I fan of him I will even admit he didn't take a step in the right direction. I still don't think he's a lost cause as Sparks showed you can go on waivers and have a revolutionary year still. Just surprised you didn't mention Peter Delmas who was a 2nd rounder you dream of GTG and was an utter failure. Trevor Cann is another 2nd rounder who failed. Only person who didn't fail is Calvin Pickard and not sure you can call him a saviour either, more like a good teammate/back up combo which is what we picked in Peter Budaj who also was a 2nd rounder.

Sorry, but I just cannot agree that we should use some of our top 60 picks on goaltender prospects. If we have more than one I don't mind going for some risk like we do in this draft, but for the most part I rather grab players and try to trade for prospects from other teams. Goaltenders don't go for a lot and there are limited number of positions available, so certain teams which have stocked goaltending system will eventually get rid of some because that's the nature of the game. Look at the Ducks for example, they had a deep system with Andersen and Gibson, they targeted Gibson and allowed Andersen to move on for not a whole lot. That's how we targeted Varlamov in the first place and the route Avs should go when it comes time to address our goaltending situation again (which will be soon). I am not saying Avs shouldn't fill the need from within, they absolutely should, but I haven't seen good reason for me to change my mind and pick one in the top 60.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Actually your two posts are not necessarily in contradiction. GTG is saying that drafting goalies in late rounds has a low rate of success, which is true. Seph is saying that drafting goalies in the 1st and 2nd round also has a low rate of success. Probably higher than if you draft than later obviously, but lower than if you draft forwards or Dmen.

All that's saying is that drafting goalies is a risky business. Rate of success would be higher if you draft them higher but it will be lower than if you draft forwards or Dmen so its not a good idea usually.

So trade seems the way to go since, as Seph wrote, the price tag isn't that high usually. But miht as well try a few late picks as well, just in case...

 

[Pokecheque]

I'd like to believe that Hepple would use a higher pick on a goalie prospect if the right one came along, though I don't have anything to base that on.

 

[MarkT]

I'd like to second the trade for a goalie strategy. It's basically the case that with any player of any position it's a roll of the dice whether they'll end up being any good. Just look at any draft year and look at the 1st rounders - plenty of scrubs at every position. But since there are so much fewer goalies and so much fewer positions available, the failure rate becomes magnified. So basically my strategy would be to draft a few goalies with later picks to give myself a roll at the dice, but my main focus would be on watching other teams like a hawk and when one has a good young goalie that they don't have room for, I'm there with an offer of draft picks (ideally not many and not too high). So I'd basically still be drafting a goalie, but just upping my odds of success.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Martin needs a new contract after this season. I am not sure he's sticking around.