2017-18 roster talk: the positive perfect power of nine

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The Pimp, now he's the kind of center who keeps his girls happy.

YES. Finally we are on the same page.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Matt Read called up. Simmonds?

 

[OriginJM]

Matt Read called up. Simmonds?

i suppose so. don't see him knocking anyone out of the lineup based on recent performances.

 

[Rebels57]

Hopefully this is a precautionary call up for Read.

Mentally I have moved on quickly from him.

 

[Magua]

Simmonds practiced, so this could be a game-time decision type thing.

But Lehtera must be thrilled. If they'd rather play Read than Lehtera, I'm not sure why the latter isn't sent down instead.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Can he be claimed on recall, is that still a thing ?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Weise on the PP. Get ready for it.

 

[WestrnPhlyr]

Hopefully this is a precautionary call up for Read.

Mentally I have moved on quickly from him.

Wow, so have I. Actually, I had almost forgotten he was still in the organIzation.

 

[Curufinwe]

Unless Simmonds might not play, I don't see the point in recalling Read.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

This is my 5v5 usage. Who am I?

 

[FLYguy3911]

TK

 

[Rebels57]

"Trading Schenn creates a bigger role for Konecny"

Oh ok.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Filppula & Weise are so far the biggest benefactors from Schenn being moved.

 

[Magua]

I know pre-season is pre-season, but it's amazing how transcendent TK looked then........now he's reduced to the odd self-created breakaway in his sparse minutes.

 

[Magua]

I know Weal was out tonight and Simmonds did not look himself due to his injury -- Weal's line driving has become a theme, and he and Simmer have a ton of chemistry -- which tanked the second line along with Lehtera, but all this game did was stick to the usual pattern: top/bottom lines do great, middle 6 is messy and can't take advantage of match-ups or cause mis-matches themselves. They got butchered, and you can tell Hakstol doesn't really know who to rely on.

The top line is doing too well for Hakstol to actually split them up. My opinions aside on depth issues and Giroux's likely ability to continue this success at center (would we rather have Giroux and Coots be 85% as successful on 2 separate lines?), they got what they wanted out of the line: it's one of the best in the league. Fallout to that is what it is.

Maybe Weal-Flip-Simmonds can remain a line because they've done ok, more due to the impact of the wingers. But the 3rd line is a complete mess and has been all year. They're teetering on the edge of imploding. As talented as he is, Patrick is a rookie; he needs a lot of help. TK is no stabilizer for him, and needs a stabilizing presence himself. Weise is a non-entity almost every night.

But the 4th line is simply too good. "What?!" Yes. A 4th line should not be your second best line every night. Quality of competition is a factor, but the "4th line" has been generally getting nearly as much ice time as the "3rd line," and they've been up against similar competition. But it's been more like two separate 3rd/4th tweener lines. That's where the issue is right now, assuming the top line stays the same. The Laughton line isn't playing enough minutes despite being successful; the other lines aren't playing enough either because they're unsuccessful. Raffl would instantly juice the Patrick line, but they don't want to break up a good thing. The 4th line will still do fine subbing him out. They don't need to be the best 4th line in the league, given the dubious design of the middle 6; it's wasteful.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

thanks for creeping me the eff out man.
really. thanks a ton

 

[BillDineen]

I know Weal was out tonight and Simmonds did not look himself due to his injury -- Weal's line driving has become a theme, and he and Simmer have a ton of chemistry -- which tanked the second line along with Lehtera, but all this game did was stick to the usual pattern: top/bottom lines do great, middle 6 is messy and can't take advantage of match-ups or cause mis-matches themselves. They got butchered, and you can tell Hakstol doesn't really know who to rely on.

The top line is doing too well for Hakstol to actually split them up. My opinions aside on depth issues and Giroux's likely ability to continue this success at center (would we rather have Giroux and Coots be 85% as successful on 2 separate lines?), they got what they wanted out of the line: it's one of the best in the league. Fallout to that is what it is.

Maybe Weal-Flip-Simmonds can remain a line because they've done ok, more due to the impact of the wingers. But the 3rd line is a complete mess and has been all year. They're teetering on the edge of imploding. As talented as he is, Patrick is a rookie; he needs a lot of help. TK is no stabilizer for him, and needs a stabilizing presence himself. Weise is a non-entity almost every night.

But the 4th line is simply too good. "What?!" Yes. A 4th line should not be your second best line every night. Quality of competition is a factor, but the "4th line" has been generally getting nearly as much ice time as the "3rd line," and they've been up against similar competition. But it's been more like two separate 3rd/4th tweener lines. That's where the issue is right now, assuming the top line stays the same. The Laughton line isn't playing enough minutes despite being successful; the other lines aren't playing enough either because they're unsuccessful. Raffl would instantly juice the Patrick line, but they don't want to break up a good thing. The 4th line will still do fine subbing him out. They don't need to be the best 4th line in the league, given the dubious design of the middle 6; it's wasteful.

As crazy as it sounds and it might be too early, but switching Patrick and Couturier might work to balance out the lines. Top line is just too good though and Couturier's confidence is growing every game.

 

[Magua]

As crazy as it sounds and it might be too early, but switching Patrick and Couturier might work to balance out the lines. Top line is just too good though and Couturier's confidence is growing every game.

Patrick being put with them seems like a tall order for a rookie. He's going to center the line that gets the most minutes on the team, in some of the hardest usage? I don't think they break up that trio any time soon. Not for Couturier's sake but for Giroux and Jake's coming off disappointing seasons. They're the lifeblood of this team up front, and they will work the roster around their success.

I do think the simplest solution is to give Raffl the top 9 minutes he deserves, not 8-9 minutes a game. He's a less talented offensively, winger version of Couturier. He makes miracles happen on any line he's put on. And I see 2 talented young guys in need of a stabilizing, 2-way possession presence. Now, that takes away from Laughton and Leier, but I think that's the price you pay, and with either Read/Weise on their wing, they'll still be a good 4th line. But the issue is Hakstol has shown a tendency to not break up what he perceives is a successful 4th line. They become his crutch.

 

[deadhead]

They're rotating the 2nd through 4th lines evenly, but you're completely ignoring chemistry issues.
Weise would be an awful fit on the 4th line, he's not that kind of player, whereas Raffl looks like a perfect fit there.

On the other hand, Raffl wouldn't bring much more to the Patrick line, he's not a playmaker or a scorer, and he's not as good at going to the net as Weise, he's faster and best at forechecking and puck possession - so he wouldn't "save" that line. Lindblom is the long term solution. Funny how everyone now loves Raffl when they hated him on the G line. He looks good because he's on the right line.

The problem with Konency is Konency, he looked better in pre-season where his head down, skate fast, shoot hard style works relative to the beginning of this season where we've played a bunch of tough opponents who play defense. He's still very inexperienced, but he doesn't the high hockey IQ (compare to Patrick, for example) and has to learn to see and anticipate better. And that takes time - when he develops a better feel for the game and gets stronger he'll be a top 6 winger.

Not every player is going to be a Provorov, some will take 3-4 years to develop, and even with a couple years in the AHL, they'll need a couple NHL seasons to hit their stride. That's why Hextall feels 23 is the ideal age to start most young players.

 

[Rebels57]

Patrick being put with them seems like a tall order for a rookie. He's going to center the line that gets the most minutes on the team, in some of the hardest usage? I don't think they break up that trio any time soon. Not for Couturier's sake but for Giroux and Jake's coming off disappointing seasons. They're the lifeblood of this team up front, and they will work the roster around their success.

I do think the simplest solution is to give Raffl the top 9 minutes he deserves, not 8-9 minutes a game. He's a less talented offensively, winger version of Couturier. He makes miracles happen on any line he's put on. And I see 2 talented young guys in need of a stabilizing, 2-way possession presence. Now, that takes away from Laughton and Leier, but I think that's the price you pay, and with either Read/Weise on their wing, they'll still be a good 4th line. But the issue is Hakstol has shown a tendency to not break up what he perceives is a successful 4th line. They become his crutch.

How about we promote Raffl to the Patrick line with Konecny, scratch Weise, and call up Colin McDonald to play on the 4th line. He has the energy to match those two and i'm sure they are familiar with each other from their days together in Lehigh.

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Weal - Filppula - Simmonds
Raffl - Patrick - Konecny
Leier - Laughton - McDonald

 

[deadhead]

Because McDonald is slow?

Why would you want to weaken what might not only be our 2nd best line, but one that can be used to create matchup problems?

Maybe we could just wait a month or two, see how they play together, see how the kids are doing in the AHL, then make changes if needed? My suspicion is as Patrick gets more experience, and gets stronger the further from his surgery, he'll pick that line up. And the Filppula line is fine with Weal driving it. And I don't want to touch that fourth line right now - though down the road I could see Vorobyev at center and Laughton at LW, or NAK pushing Leier, and maybe Raffl moving up (though I think he' really suited to the 4th line role, he can make plays without the pressure of having to score 20 goals).

If Hextall thought any of these guys were clear improvements right now, he could bury Weise the same way he's buried Lehtera and Read, he has the cap room. So obvously he doesn't see them as improvements right now.

 

[Rebels57]

McDonald is a better skater than Weise.

I'm a better skater than Weise.

You're a better skater than Weise.

EVERYONE's a better skater than Weise.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

McDonald isn’t very good. You play him like a regular & you’ll quickly see that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Why in the world wouldn't the second best possession winger on the team be a good fit next to Patrick and Konecny? For all of Konecny's skill, he's not a very good possession player at ES right now. Patrick needs some help there.

 

[Rebels57]

McDonald isn’t very good. You play him like a regular & you’ll quickly see that.

He would be fine as a 4th line/energy forward with Leier and Laughton doing the heavy lifting. He has been very physical in his appearances with the Flyers and frankly that's something we need a little more of out of our forwards. Would be nice to soften some of these dmen up so they wear down at the end of games.

Try Weise on the 4th line first and then try McDonald, and I bet you'd prefer McDonald.