Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 7

[CupsOverCash]

Coaching change before playoffs!

 

[Flat Ronnie]

TMJ prob....

 

[Stormbreaker]

 

[TampaJay]

Been saying it for years, bring in whoever you want doesn't matter if the system sucks. Waste of money to stack up on the back end if you're just going to play stupid, look at the flames, we should've just gone for more forwards if this is the kind of system we're taking into the playoffs.

We finally have an extremely mobile defense and we can't get the puck out.

It never gets mentioned when talking about the difficulty in getting the puck out, maybe because it’s hard to quantify, but Bishop being the third Dman covered up this flaw. It seems like they never adjusted the system to the new reality that they don’t have a puck moving goalie. Vasi has improved his puck handling somewhat, but it’s never going to be great.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Really?? Didn't notice anything.

 

[CupsOverCash]

It never gets mentioned when talking about the difficulty in getting the puck out, maybe because it’s hard to quantify, but Bishop being the third Dman covered up this flaw. It seems like they never adjusted the system to the new reality that they don’t have a puck moving goalie. Vasi has improved his puck handling somewhat, but it’s never going to be great.

We didn't have this problem early in the year. Did team's just adjust or did we stop doing what we were doing before?

 

[Werewolf]

I watched it again. The defense has to do a MUCH better job at reading where their forwards are. Its that simple. If the three forwards are below the dots ... DON'T f***ING PINCH. If we have a forward in a "high" position ... then yeah you can now pinch all you want. I mean its ridiculous that our defenseman are being this aggressive and not reading the play correctly. Taking unnecessary chances and giving up tons of short handed opportunities.

NYR play a man to man defensive scheme ... we don't. McDonagh has to quickly adapt. His coverage resposibilities were blown causing a bit of chaos when he is out there. He cannot chase high ... he has to adapt to the scheme. This has to be corrected immediately.

 

[AlphaCatalyst]

I watched it again. The defense has to do a MUCH better job at reading where their forwards are. Its that simple. If the three forwards are below the dots ... DON'T ****ING PINCH. If we have a forward in a "high" position ... then yeah you can now pinch all you want. I mean its ridiculous that our defenseman are being this aggressive and not reading the play correctly. Taking unnecessary chances and giving up tons of short handed opportunities.

NYR play a man to man defensive scheme ... we don't. McDonagh has to quickly adapt. His coverage resposibilities were blown causing a bit of chaos when he is out there. He cannot chase high ... he has to adapt to the scheme. This has to be corrected immediately.

In addition to that I have not been able to watch the past few games but I have been listening to the radio broadcasts and I have lost count of how many times I’ve heard Dave Mishkin say “the Lightning fail to clear” and not even just on penalty kills even though it certainly is much more then. “The lightning had a chance to clear but couldn’t get it out and that allowed (opposition) to score” I swear he’s said that almost every game over the past month.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The past two games alone we had an easy clear on our hand but decided to pass it cross ice in our own zone which lead to a turnover (and at least once to a GA) each time. McDonagh and Coburn IIRC. You'd think they'd know better after a million years in pro hockey under their belts respectively.

 

[Stormbreaker]

 

[LonLon Lei]

...
NYR play a man to man defensive scheme ... we don't. McDonagh has to quickly adapt. His coverage resposibilities were blown causing a bit of chaos when he is out there. He cannot chase high ... he has to adapt to the scheme. This has to be corrected immediately.

Are you sure about this? Agree he had some issue on his first game, was on the ice for two goals against (one of which was directly his fault, as he later admitted) but last night he was not on the ice for any of the goals against, was also the only positive +/- guy on the team.
All I saw was he was solid for doing his job, defending. was successful killing a penalty. I've seen the same game as this person;

Ceci's defending on that third goal may have been the worst thing I have ever seen.
BTW, McDonagh was far and away Tampa's best defender last night. I don't think he was on the ice for any of the Ottawa goals. He was manhandling dudes, blocking shots and shutting down the Sens.

If he has to quit what he was doing last game then I'm afraid he can't help the team much. I'm fully aware that the current D system needs to be fixed and he can fit in at the better team D system for sure, but not for the sake of the actual definition of defending as a whole.

 

[The S5]

I watched it again. The defense has to do a MUCH better job at reading where their forwards are. Its that simple. If the three forwards are below the dots ... DON'T ****ING PINCH. If we have a forward in a "high" position ... then yeah you can now pinch all you want. I mean its ridiculous that our defenseman are being this aggressive and not reading the play correctly. Taking unnecessary chances and giving up tons of short handed opportunities.

NYR play a man to man defensive scheme ... we don't. McDonagh has to quickly adapt. His coverage resposibilities were blown causing a bit of chaos when he is out there. He cannot chase high ... he has to adapt to the scheme. This has to be corrected immediately.

Was McDonagh on for ANY of the goals ?
I do recall seeing Serg coast back into the D zone resulting in a goal.
I do recall seeing Hedman abandon his position, resulting in a back door tap in.
I think your rant is misplaced.

 

[These Are The Days]

TMJ prob....

Lmao I had to look it up and burst out laughing when I saw what it was. Well done

 

[MattM92]

It never gets mentioned when talking about the difficulty in getting the puck out, maybe because it’s hard to quantify, but Bishop being the third Dman covered up this flaw. It seems like they never adjusted the system to the new reality that they don’t have a puck moving goalie. Vasi has improved his puck handling somewhat, but it’s never going to be great.

I get what you're saying, but plenty of teams are able to clear the puck on the PK without Bishop back there. If the puck is on your stick 5 feet from the blueline and you fail to get it out, that has nothing to do with a puck moving goalie.

 

[Sky04]

I get what you're saying, but plenty of teams are able to clear the puck on the PK without Bishop back there. If the puck is on your stick 5 feet from the blueline and you fail to get it out, that has nothing to do with a puck moving goalie.

Pittsburgh did it fine with J.Schultz as their best d-man so yeah, I'm pretty sure this stuff can be coached....

 

[The Macho King]

Pittsburgh did it fine with J.Schultz as their best d-man so yeah, I'm pretty sure this stuff can be coached....

A lot of that is also forward buy-in. But I look at it a slight bit differently.

I'm thinking of the third goal(?) of the Ottawa game. Sergachev retrieves a loose puck off of a dump in. He's under pressure from a forechecker and has no clear path to advance the puck forward.

Normally you would reverse the puck there to your partner or to a winger. But everyone (including his partner Coburn) are bailing the zone. So Sergachev just reverses on his backhand along the boards, hoping for a clear. It doesn't get by the Dman and the Sens keep it in, and score a few seconds later in the shift.

There's no way that was a system issue. I think it was our top line out there so I'm not shocked they were bailing the zone (even if someone should take the foot off the gas a bit). But what the hell is Coburn doing in that situation? Why is he skating forward before there is a clear breakout? If he does what he's supposed to do, we at least can chip it out if not have a controlled exit. For the guy who is supposed to be the stable partner back there, he's caught out of position way too often.

We need to bring back Dotchin and hope he can hang.

 

[TampaJay]

I get what you're saying, but plenty of teams are able to clear the puck on the PK without Bishop back there. If the puck is on your stick 5 feet from the blueline and you fail to get it out, that has nothing to do with a puck moving goalie.

I agree, and that was part of my point. Most teams don’t have a puck handler like Bishop because there are only a handful of them. My point was that they need to face the new reality and adjust somehow… coaching, system, bringing in more PMD to make up for it, whatever. They got overdependent on a 3rd Dman goalie. I’m not saying it is the biggest factor, just a factor that could have been overcome.

 

[Bolt 45]

The thing I've been seeing a lot of lately is when we get the puck along the boards in our zone and feint like we're going to clear it into the wide swath of open ice up the middle, but then reverse direction only to get mugged by the guy who didn't bite on the fake in the first place. It's so annoying, because 9/10 times an easy clear is being passed up. Everyone's doing it, too, D and forwards alike. Kuch, Point and Stralman can generally get away with it, but even then it's dicey.

 

[Sky04]

More concerned about the forwards turning it over constantly while in the offensive zone.

I think it's pretty apparent that our D-men like to pinch and play aggressive, this turns out horribly when a forward turns the puck over with those stupid cross ice passes - this has been the most annoying part of the past month. Remember that MTL game where they had 3 breakaways in the span of like 5mins? the Stamkos line is especially guilty.

 

[Bolt 45]

More concerned about the forwards turning it over constantly while in the offensive zone.

I think it's pretty apparent that our D-men like to pinch and play aggressive, this turns out horribly when a forward turns the puck over with those stupid cross ice passes - this has been the most annoying part of the past month. Remember that MTL game where they had 3 breakaways in the span of like 5mins? the Stamkos line is especially guilty.

Yeah. That cross ice pass hasn't really been there in months. The problem is that Kuch can still sneak it through on occasion, so he still wants to try it. It's Kuch, and sometimes Stammer, just being a little cocky and irresponsible. I like to think they're both experienced enough to know that they can't play that way when the playoffs roll around. We'll see.

 

[Boltswin]

Lmao I had to look it up and burst out laughing when I saw what it was. Well done

The joke being that he chews gum a lot and it causes jaw pain (so no one else has to look it up, assuming I understood the joke myself)

 

[LightningStrikes]

The joke being that he chews gum a lot and it causes jaw pain (so no one else has to look it up, assuming I understood the joke myself)

Ironically chewing gum is one of the suggested treatments when suffering from TMJ.

 

[waterboy65]

Bolts recent play is taking Torts famous phrase "Safe is Death" to extremes. Too much pinching in which is highlighted by line combinations and defensive parings not being used to playing with each other. The right balance between offensive aggressiveness and defensive responsibility has to be re-established.

 

[These Are The Days]

Someone else alluded to it but I can't help but wonder if our 3rd period fiasco really isn't just playing safe as not to get hurt as well. We get these huge leads and almost blow them and are able to leg them out. Maybe it's like our coaching staff finding a happy medium at the expense of giving Lightning fans a heart attack.

I mean both Stamkos AND Vasilevskiy get blood clots? This super rare condition that could affect anyone just happens to be OUR superstar athletes and important players? Our injury history over the last 2 years is literally the stuff of curses

 

[The Macho King]

Coop heard me.