2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

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AnThGrt

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Feb 13, 2005
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Bias at its finest. Too many Kings fans are so afraid of someone potentially being close, as good, yet alone better than Drew that you put on blinders. Also gotta love posting individual youtube clips and ignoring the fact that I said for our team Doughty is the better fit and no where once said one or the other is better/worse than the other. Also going by your numbers Kings11 "Doughty($11)+Muzzin($4)+Carlson($7)+Chara($4)+kids>>>Doughty+Karlsson+paperweights..." You can just as well have Doughty 11+Karlsson 11 + Muzzin 4 + kids and comes out to the same # as and once again >>>>>>>> what you suggested. Also what you suggest isn't worth them two alone yet alone when factoring the extra 4 million and Muzzin you conveniently added to your side and neglected on the other side. What you're suggesting was Doughty+Carlson+Chara <> Doughty+Karlsson and only an idiot would take the former yet alone believe a 41yr old Chara has multiple years left of great yet alone good play.

Done here. Feel free to continue, but any player/coach/GM/analyst/etc will not side with you. Not even Kings players who were all afraid and arguing over who would have to guard Karlsson. Bias is at its finest and prejudice coming through in spades. Sad when people are so set on narratives that they don't appreciate what is arguably a generational talent in any sport. Doughty can be great the same time as another player being great. Novel concept I know.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,784
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After Karlsson's play last year and now this one the negative narratives are becoming simply petty and show clear bias. Anyone watch even a single playoff game last year? I get how frustrating it is dealing with the regular Doughty<>Karlsson debates.

This year:
55.5 Corsi with a CF% Rel of 9.5 (Absurd)
54.9 Fenwick with a FF% Rel of 8.4
15 TkA - 20 GvA

For sake of comparison: Doughty
52.7 Corsi with a CF% Rel of 4.8
51.3 Fenwick with a FF% Rel of 2.1
4 TkA - 30 GvA (This is a serious issue)

Karlsson right now would likely win Norris again if the season ended today. Multiple articles have just that prediction too including one posted just today by ESPN (Worst of the various sources predicting such). Even after going 10 games without a point still right there in the top 3 for points come defenders. Also plays on a much worse team that completely revolves and sinks/swims based upon his play. He is the sole defender who can easily be argued over Drew as the best in the game. Also the sole defender who can be argued against the likes of McDavid, Crosby, etc. Now I love Doughty and feel he fits our team better. If you had the chance to pair the two you do and figure the CAP out later. When Pronger-Niedermayer, Bourque-Blake, Chelios-Suter, Rafalski-Lidstrom, etc came together they all went to win cup(s) and majority all in the first year they got together.

Can put really anyone with either and they will excel so easy to save CAP there. Doughty+Karlsson+anyone >>> Doughty+Martinez+Muzzin

Yes, and that was literally the only time--last year as a whole--that he played passable defense. It's night and day between last year and this year in his play and it's most likely due to the injury. Don't fall into the trap of thinking his playoff play carried over because he racked up assists when he came back. Even Sens fans will disagree with you that he's in the Norris race at all--see their board and the main board for a real evaluation of his play by the people who see him every night and spent years and years pumping his tires--they're being extremely realistic about him this year.

Do you think Muzzin should have won the 2013 Norris? He was an absurd 60%+ CF%, after all. Similar issues, too--fantastic for 95% of the time, getting turnstiled for a goal against the other 5%. It's nice to tilt the play as a whole in your favor--see what the Kings did on-ice for the last few years--but the goal of the game is to score goals and too often has Erik Karlsson been absurdly terrible at goals against (even relative to his terrible GA team over the years).

It's bias to literally throw a small set of handpicked stats out there to make a guy look better. You can criticise him and still respect the hell out of him and appreciate him, hell we do it around here about our own players all the time, I don't like the idea that breaking down every aspect of a dude's game--which we did, we pinata'ed the hell out of Doughty, karlsson, Burns, Hedman over the last few years--means you don't appreciate them. If anything, you're trying to find the slice of evidence that separates them, because at the very top level--which I think Doughty, EK, Hedman (and Pietrangelo this year) are at--it's very tiny things that separate them. If you didn't respect or appreciate them, why would you look with a fine toothed comb? I don't care to look that hard at, say, Letang, because he's very clearly a tier below in a LOT of areas.

Now hell yeah I'd love him on this team, especially because we can put him in that Voynov slot and turn him absolutely f***ing loose. The guy needs a defensive safety blanket but if we could get him and Drew together it would be superior to even that Pronger-Neidermeyer deal where you have a HoF d-man on the ice for the entire game.

Will never understand the binary mindset that you either praise him uncompromisingly or you hate him, and that's extremely pervasive on this site in particular.

Edit: Copying myself from another thread for sake of a bigger-picture look about context (this is from about a week ago):

Player GA PCF% CF%rel/tm GF% GF%rel/tm TOI/GP SHTOI/GP PPTOI/GPZSRrel/tm TOI% QoC
Alex Pietrangelo7132052.51-0.7264.5210.7825:532:324:033.4429.59
Erik Karlsson1161753.476.6936.11-10.5625:080:584:009.3128.95
John Klingberg4202451.881.1355.007.3823:301:343:173.2129.23
Drew Doughty4151952.143.9057.894.1926:563:023:34-3.8629.74
Nick Leddy6152150.570.1553.85-1.7122:090:143:438.3628.98
P.K. Subban4141848.93-0.9048.391.1124:313:213:44-9.0929.41
Roman Josi6111752.556.1248.481.8225:153:353:337.0229.58
Victor Hedman2151750.43-0.5448.65-13.2625:292:333:286.3929.61
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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tny760

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
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Bias at its finest. Too many Kings fans are so afraid of someone potentially being close, as good, yet alone better than Drew that you put on blinders. Also gotta love posting individual youtube clips and ignoring the fact that I said for our team Doughty is the better fit and no where once said one or the other is better/worse than the other. Also going by your numbers Kings11 "Doughty($11)+Muzzin($4)+Carlson($7)+Chara($4)+kids>>>Doughty+Karlsson+paperweights..." You can just as well have Doughty 11+Karlsson 11 + Muzzin 4 + kids and comes out to the same # as and once again >>>>>>>> what you suggested. Also what you suggest isn't worth them two alone yet alone when factoring the extra 4 million and Muzzin you conveniently added to your side and neglected on the other side. What you're suggesting was Doughty+Carlson+Chara <> Doughty+Karlsson and only an idiot would take the former yet alone believe a 41yr old Chara has multiple years left of great yet alone good play.

Done here. Feel free to continue, but any player/coach/GM/analyst/etc will not side with you. Not even Kings players who were all afraid and arguing over who would have to guard Karlsson. Bias is at its finest and prejudice coming through in spades. Sad when people are so set on narratives that they don't appreciate what is arguably a generational talent in any sport. Doughty can be great the same time as another player being great. Novel concept I know.

actually i was attacking your stupid claim that he would win the norris today. i didn't say he was a bad player, i said his defense has been ass this season

peace kehd
 

ScoreZeGoals

Boooorrrrriiiinnnnng
Jun 29, 2010
17,423
7,032
Karlsson is no doubt a generational player and one of the best offensive defenseman to ever play the game. With that said, Karlsson isn't close to being a Norris finalist this year if the season ended today. That isn't "trashing Karlsson" or any other crap like that, that's simply watching him play. It's very likely due to injury, but he looks like a shell of himself
 
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mrkolice

Registered User
May 26, 2014
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Ljubljana, Slovenia
kings as contenders? what do you think?
i know it's a long shot, but still.
so far i'm positively surprised to a point of this wildest dream. my main argument for being optimistic is that this team won it before. and they are hungry for more. and i'm analyzing this dream and i have this gut feeling that they can go all the way again.
 

KingTrouty

Allons!
Jan 18, 2015
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Karlsson is no doubt a generational player and one of the best offensive defenseman to ever play the game. With that said, Karlsson isn't close to being a Norris finalist this year if the season ended today. That isn't "trashing Karlsson" or any other crap like that, that's simply watching him play. It's very likely due to injury, but he looks like a shell of himself
Right!? "Norris winner today if the season ended" was when I was done reading that nonsense post.
 

tsanuri

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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Central Coast CA
kings as contenders? what do you think?
i know it's a long shot, but still.
so far i'm positively surprised to a point of this wildest dream. my main argument for being optimistic is that this team won it before. and they are hungry for more. and i'm analyzing this dream and i have this gut feeling that they can go all the way again.
Would actually be stupid to say they aren't contenders. They are in first place in the pacific.
Are they favorites might be the better question. And that one is a big no. They have played well but are very inconsistent. But getting Carter back will be huge. And if they make the playoffs, which they should anything can happen. This is still a very experienced team that has enough players that have been there before. They know what it takes to win.
 

regulate

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Aug 19, 2007
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Pace update at 31 games

Kopitar 42 58 101 +42
Brown 32 37 69 +42
Doughty 13 50 63 +42
Toffoli 37 21 58 +32
Muzzin 8 42 50 +21
Pearson 16 34 50 +34
Kempe 27 19 46 +30
Gaborik 27 13 40 +33
Lewis 19 16 35 + 5
Iafallo 5 21 26 +24
Fantanberg 4 21 25 + 4
Shore 6 17 23 - 6
Martinez 6 14 20 +20
Folin 7 10 17 + 3
Forbort 0 16 16 +24
Jokinen 3 9 12 - 3
MacDermid 3 6 9 +13
Brodzinski 8 0 8 + 8
Andreoff 3 3 6 -13
Mitchell 0 0 0 - 9
 

WHOneedsSOX

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Mar 1, 2015
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Would actually be stupid to say they aren't contenders. They are in first place in the pacific.
Are they favorites might be the better question. And that one is a big no. They have played well but are very inconsistent. But getting Carter back will be huge. And if they make the playoffs, which they should anything can happen. This is still a very experienced team that has enough players that have been there before. They know what it takes to win.
Still have to keep an eye on the Ducks too. Getzlaf and Silfverberg coming back today. Kesler is close. Of course they have their playoff demons and I'm still not sold on Gibson but their lineup is loaded.
 
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AlphaBravo

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Jan 31, 2015
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These recent wins have been nice, but I think we will need a boast on D to be real Stanley Cup contenders. I know our GAA is great, but I am primarily concerned with our ability to move the puck out of the zone. Pairing Muzzin and Doughty together has been phenomenal, and it would be nice if we had a lite version of that pairing for the second pair. Getting a top 4 with good puck moving skills to play with Martinez would really complete this team.

Obviously every team in the NHL is looking for a top 4, so I am not sure if Blake will be able to make a deal other than bring in a rental. Also, that Folin and Forbort pairing looks like a real disaster. Reminds me of the McNabb and McBain pairing a while back. Both seem a bit flat footed and get pinned down low often. I am okay with each defenseman individually, but I hope Stevens plugs in Fantenberg for one of the two, who is a better puck mover.
 

lumbergh

It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
Jan 8, 2007
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Still have to keep an eye on the Ducks too. Getzlaf and Silfverberg coming back today. Kesler is close. Of course they have their playoff demons and I'm still not sold on Gibson but their lineup is loaded.
According to Sports Club Stats as of this morning, the Kings have a >99% chance of making the playoffs while the Ducks have a <20% chance. To get to 94 points, the Kings have to get 51 points in the next 51 games (25-25-1, or 50% of possible points). Anaheim would have to get 63 points in their next 52 games (31-20-1, or 61% of possible points). It's certainly not impossible for the Ducks, but it'll be an uphill climb for sure. They have a huge eastern road trip coming up over the next two weeks. If it doesn't turn out well, the hole gets so deep it'll be hard to see the opening.
 

KopitarFAN

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Oct 14, 2008
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Still have to keep an eye on the Ducks too. Getzlaf and Silfverberg coming back today. Kesler is close. Of course they have their playoff demons and I'm still not sold on Gibson but their lineup is loaded.

They are going to make a run, in a way, the Kings have benefited from already playing them twice and having a 12 point lead (fewer immediate points available to cut into that lead), but their is a lot of season left.
 

WHOneedsSOX

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Mar 1, 2015
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According to Sports Club Stats as of this morning, the Kings have a >99% chance of making the playoffs while the Ducks have a <20% chance. To get to 94 points, the Kings have to get 51 points in the next 51 games (25-25-1, or 50% of possible points). Anaheim would have to get 63 points in their next 52 games (31-20-1, or 61% of possible points). It's certainly not impossible for the Ducks, but it'll be an uphill climb for sure. They have a huge eastern road trip coming up over the next two weeks. If it doesn't turn out well, the hole gets so deep it'll be hard to see the opening.
I wasn't necessarily saying the Ducks will pass the Kings but come playoff time they'll be one of the 3-4 teams that realistically can win the West.

Although the Kings were something like 18 points up on them in 2015-16 and then the Ducks went on that insane run and easily passed the Kings and won the division. But like you said, it's an uphill climb. I do think they'll make the playoffs though and will be a force if they're all healthy.
 

HookKing

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Dec 12, 2008
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Ducks are only 4 points behind the Sharks, they will make the playoffs easily and probably pass Vegas as well. Even winning the division is feasible.
 

tsanuri

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Where it's hard not to worry about what other teams are or aren't doing. Bottom line is if this team takes care of what they should from this point on we're in the playoffs. And that's just. 500 hockey really.
If they play well, which would still be worse than what they have played to date, they should be in first or second place. Playing. 600 would give them 105 points.

Vegas has played better than anyone predicted especially with the injuries in goal.
Anaheim has played better than anyone could have predicted with all their injuries.
They'll likely make the playoffs with getting guys back.
 

Fishhead

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Ducks are only 4 points behind the Sharks, they will make the playoffs easily and probably pass Vegas as well. Even winning the division is feasible.


33-11-8 gives them 105 points, which would probably win them the division. That means they will have to play better than Tampa Bay has so far, I wouldn't categorize that as feasible. More like highly unlikely. They will have a hard enough time making the playoffs, besides missing some key guys they simply aren't playing well.
 

Maynard

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After they get all their horses back and running, Anaheim will probably go on some crazy run, like they'll win 15 of 17 or something and they'll be right on LA's ass. There's no way they just stay terrible.
 

HookKing

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33-11-8 gives them 105 points, which would probably win them the division. That means they will have to play better than Tampa Bay has so far, I wouldn't categorize that as feasible. More like highly unlikely. They will have a hard enough time making the playoffs, besides missing some key guys they simply aren't playing well.
The missing guys are returning. If the Kings had been missing equivalent players this far into the season that would be down there with Arizona. A healthy ducks team is likely the best in the league.
 

go4hockey

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Oct 14, 2007
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Damn it, I thaught I was in the Kings board but this one seems full of Duck fans. Some King fans are the worst, never happy no matter what the team does just rush in here to bitch about something.,.,. Anything.
 
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Fishhead

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The missing guys are returning. If the Kings had been missing equivalent players this far into the season that would be down there with Arizona. A healthy ducks team is likely the best in the league.

You are overrating the Ducks. Their defense has been sub-par, for all the trumpeting about their D depth they aren't playing well. Lots of turnovers and losing their assignments. Guys are constantly out of position. That's coaching and not getting it done, not injuries. Yea Getzlaf and Kesler are big losses, but not that much bigger than Carter or Gaborik. Carter was the best out of that group last year. Getz/Kes accounted for .69 ppg, Carter/Gab for .63 ppg. Losing Eaves sucked, but guys like that are easily replaced on any good roster.

Good teams find ways to overcome that. St. Louis have lost significant players. The Kings have too., yet both of those teams are leading divisions. Vegas has the highest impact on points due to injuries of any team, yet they are still near the top and are an expansion team.

If the Ducks roster was that good they'd find ways to win like the other teams have. They'd be a lot better with everyone in the lineup, but likely the best in the league is an epic stretch.
 

KingsFan7824

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Dec 4, 2003
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You are overrating the Ducks. Their defense has been sub-par, for all the trumpeting about their D depth they aren't playing well. Lots of turnovers and losing their assignments. Guys are constantly out of position. That's coaching and not getting it done, not injuries. Yea Getzlaf and Kesler are big losses, but not that much bigger than Carter or Gaborik. Carter was the best out of that group last year. Getz/Kes accounted for .69 ppg, Carter/Gab for .63 ppg. Losing Eaves sucked, but guys like that are easily replaced on any good roster.

Good teams find ways to overcome that. St. Louis have lost significant players. The Kings have too., yet both of those teams are leading divisions. Vegas has the highest impact on points due to injuries of any team, yet they are still near the top and are an expansion team.

If the Ducks roster was that good they'd find ways to win like the other teams have. They'd be a lot better with everyone in the lineup, but likely the best in the league is an epic stretch.

Carter/Gaborik isn't the comparison to Getzlaf/Kesler. If the Kings didn't have Carter and Kopitar right now, where are they?
 
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