2017-18 Detroit Red Wings Grades

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Redder Winger, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. DetroitRed

    DetroitRed Crashes the Crease

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Michigan
    Howard: C- ...He performed better than I expected, but he's still under average.

    Larkin: A
    Zetterberg: A
    Mantha: B ...Could have been an A- if he worked harder.
    Bertuzzi: B ...Maybe not visible on paper, but his intangibles made him a good rookie
    Athanasiou: C+ ...Didn't knock my socks off even though they bumped guys off of lines for him after his contract standoff ended.
    Abdelkader: C ...He'll never live up to his contract, should not have the "A" on his jersey next season if ever
    Booth: C+ ...brought some unexpected energy for like a week.
    Frk: B- ... Way better than expected, did really well on the second line although his time there was brief.
    Glendening: C
    Helm: C
    Nielsen: C ...Didn't live up to his contract. Not. Even. Close.
    Nyquist: C+
    Svechnikov: C ...Performed about as expected recovering from injury.
    Witkowski: B- ...They got him to be a goon, which is not his fault, and unlike most other guys on the team, he's actually good at his role.

    Daley: C
    Dekeyser: C
    Ericsson: C+
    Green: C
    Jensen: C
    Kronwall: B- ...Didn't think he'd play that many games. Good work ethic, even if he's now older than the very dust he breathes.
    Ouellet: C-

    Blashill: C ...hasn't exactly made a silk purse out of this sow's ear
    Holland: F ...team was still in serious trouble this year because of bad contracts done in prior years. He likes our team.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  2. obey86

    obey86 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6,115
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Not a single D or F except for Holland for a team that is bottom 5 in the league? Does not compute.
     
  3. DetroitRed

    DetroitRed Crashes the Crease

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Michigan
    I guess I could probably take them all down about a letter. I'm grading on a curve.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  4. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    1,530
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Ontario
    Comparing my expectations to their results, I don't necessarily agree that there should be horrible grades. I had low expectations for most players, and they met those who expectations so id give them average grades like a C.

    I don't know that that is the most logical way of grading though, maybe it should be absolute
     
    kliq likes this.
  5. DetroitRed

    DetroitRed Crashes the Crease

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Michigan
    If we're just grading them on how they do compared to the rest of the league, then there's no reason to grade them at all, because all we have to do is look at the stats. But if you factor in things like living up to contacts or overcoming individual obstacles, things which aren't in the stats, then you can maybe give a guy who would be a D, a C, or the other way around. For some guys though, nothing extra really stands out, good or bad. So, then the only option is to grade them on stats. But umm... on most of the defense I went a bit high. He's right. It's early.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  6. lomekian

    lomekian Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    London
    Another topic that seems fair enough and then you realise that the OP is largely motivated by slagging off the GM in a manner based on the frustration of years past rather than the scope of the topic.

    Yes, it's incredibly frustrating that Green got injured at the worst possibly time for the wings and simulaniously went from being the trade block's #1 d-man to being pushed down by the surprising availability of both McD and Karlsson. But NO-ONE could have predicted that combined outcome before Jan, and apart from a v brief EDM rumour there was no suggestion of anyone sniffing around Green prior to that point, despite the adamant position that he should have gone last summer. To whom? And for what? No evidence anywhere that anyone wanted to take on that salary as most teams that knew they were competitive in advance lacked the cap space.

    As for ratings...based on expectations

    KH: B- . I understand all his moves since last summer, but all were uninspiring, bar the return for Tatar, which was a nice surprise. Seems to have overseen the successful integration of Lil Bert onto the roster...perhaps could have seen more of our GR D-men, but none have massively pulled up trees at AHL level, and I support keeping Hronek down for the moment.

    Blash: C- - sometimes it looks like the team are making his style work pretty well for their talent level, but sometimes it just looks an incoherent mess designed to expose our flaws. Also his line combos fluctuate similarly. Credit for putting lil Bert with Z though as that didn't seem obvious. And for Ericsson and Daley being together. Given where we are at, I don't feel particularly strongly about his immediate future, but need to see an improvement to see him as longer term viable.

    Larkin: A+
    Massive bounce back and step forward. The growth in his Alround game and addressing prior weakness has been a joy to see. Might never be a real 1C, but undoubtedly our most important player going forward.

    Z: B+
    Another slight step backwards, and his leadership has been questioned at times, but for a 37 year old with a lot of miles on the clock playing an array of mostly meh linemates, I don't think anyone should be less than pleased with him.

    Bertuzzi: B
    A perfect illustration that intensity and smarts can achieve more than skill and size alone. Looked lost at first, though not as bad as last year, but has gelled really well with the captain, and seems smart enough to gel reasonably well with any linemates. For a rookie season for someone projected as a 3rd liner, we have to be pleased. He may have been given an easier ride than many, but his PPG is better than a lot of other guys on the team. Needs to get stronger and quicker if possible.

    Mantha: C
    So much natural talent & pretty productive, but he's far floatier than Franzen ever was. Occasionally just takes over a period, and is always dangerous, but hasn't taken a significant step since last year. I expected 10 more points this season.

    Nyquist: C-
    Has actually played better than at many points over the previous two seasons, but one can't ignore the diminishing returns. 40 points for a small winger at almost $5 is just a poor return by anyone's criteria. One of those guys who often looks like a 60 point player, but then at times you forget he's even on the ice. Has the first 1/2 of next season to save his wings career methinks, but would probably be a chief beneficiary if someone like Rasmussen comes up.

    Athanasiou: C -
    Along with Mantha, the most frustrating player on the team. Lack's the big Man's smarts, but when he's on, just like last year, he can just take over a game. But equally you can a week without noticing him at all. Could be a 50 point winger on a better team, but its hard to see him getting the salary he seemingly wants on this team. Still, 16 goals for a middle six winger isn't disastrous.

    Abdelkader: C
    At Christmas I would have given him a B, but over the last 3 months his effectiveness and output have both dropped off. He's had the season you'd expect. At present he is maybe *just* worth his contract. We'll all be surprised if that remains the case.

    Helm: C+
    On a team with poor offence, he's probably exceeded his point expectations, and remained pretty good at the things he's good at. Not the relentless forechecker of yesteryear, but has been one of our few players whose output is actually above his career average.

    Nielsen: C
    Good in his role, not worth his contract, and especially not on this team. If Larkin hadn't kicked on, he'd be getting more minutes and points, but although a very good 3rd line centre in terms of lacking major weaknesses, he's just not worth his contract to us. That said, him and Helm worked well together, and if their contracts make both hard to move, the fact they are good together is important.

    Booth: C+
    Arrived with almost zero expectations. Surpassed that. Were he the 13th forward on a better team, it'd be worth bringing him back on his salary, but essentially its one and done for the hometown boy.

    Frk: C
    Performed similarly as expected. Can he kick on or is he as good as we're gonna get? Worth persevering with for one more year, as that shot is a real rarity on this team. I'd imagine he'd be happy if Rasmussen makes the roster.

    Glendening: C+
    11 goals from a 4th line center who has missed games is no mean feat, particularly when he is such an overtly defensive player. Not as good on the PK as expected or hoped, particularly as the season went on, but more in the positive than negative column.

    Svech: D+
    Appalling time in GR for much of it, but did ok when called up.

    Witkowski: B-
    Better hockey player than expected, but semi-irrelevant

    Ericsson: B-
    A better season than we've seen in a while, and bar the last month was actually pretty good.

    Green: C
    Have resisted marking him down for injury! Output and performance par for the course for his time in Detroit. Promised more, but another who just couldn't put up points mid-season.

    Kronwall: C+
    Better than I and many expected, but defensively is at the low point of his career, despite his passing remaining a strength. Slightly miraculous to get so many games out of him, so credit to his warrior spirit.

    Daley: D+
    Worked well with Ericsson, but brought a lot less offence in the first 1/2 of the season than expected. His contract is fair, so can't complain too much.

    Dekeyser: C-
    Better in recent months, but was poor again for the first 1/2 of the season. If his salary was $2.5-3, he'd be a lot more popular. At least his game seems to have stabilised after an extended downturn

    Jensen: D+
    After promise last season, he failed to build, and at times looked worse. His retaining an NHL career is depending on him being cheap. Occasionally shows flashes of the player he was in his final year in college, but I think he is what he is at this stage.

    Oullet: C-
    Actually played a little better than last year, but got less games. Similar career position to Jensen. If they don't improve over the coming season, they'll be gone after it.

    Howard: C-
    No one expected him to maintain his hot start, but without that hot start, his numbers would be horrible. At least did go through a run of stealing games for us, which hasn't been his MO for parts of his career.

    Coreau: D-
    Even worse than last time, and though hung out to dry at times, seems to have a lot of holes in that big frame


    These grades are based on expectations, and reflect the paucity of our roster. The wings of 10 years ago with this level of performance would have got much lower grades.
     
  7. kliq

    kliq Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Thats a fair point. All you can ask of a player is to play to the best of their abilities. Can you fault Z for not scoring 90 points as our 1C? I dont think so.
     
  8. kliq

    kliq Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Contracts and how good your team is do make this more challenging. Take Abby for example, you put him on say Nashville and play him on the 3rd or 4th line and keep his stats identical, plus lets say you pay him 3mil not 4+, guarantee he's given an A. Nothing else changes, its just his situation that is beyond his control.
     
  9. kliq

    kliq Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    I believe that trading early in fear of an injury is a bad approach by a GM regardless of who the GM is (this isn't a Holland thing). I would prefer to maximize my return, and from everything I have read over the years from past and present GM's, the trade deadline typically is that time. I understand your logic with being 1 of a few sellers in December, but what actually matters is the amount of buyers. I think a lot of teams are hesitant to buy so early because:

    A) they want more time to see where their teams is.
    B) In case you need to replace a player due to injury, you want save your assets.
    C) You don't want to trade for the 1 available option. If you are Yzerman and you trade for Green in December, when the TDL rolls around and McDonaugh is then available, you will be kicking yourself. If you are Yzerman, why trade for Green so early when you don't need to.
    D) Cap Space, teams like to let the season play on so they can figure out what they can fit under the cap.

    In hindsight, I 100% wish he traded Green early, but if I criticize Holland for it, then I should be criticizing every other GM that waited until the TDL to trade their UFA's as well and I dont think that's fair.
     
    njx9 and Red Stanley like this.
  10. Red Stanley

    Red Stanley Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,431
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    USA
    GM - B
    Incredible return for Tatar. Some return for a goalie who's probably out of the NHL next season. Though not necessarily Holland's fault, Green was a huge disappointment. Would've liked even more moves.

    Coaching - D
    Showed little to no adaptation from previous two years. Seems unable to motivate anyone who's not self-motivated. While it's hard to judge based on the what he's been given, he hasn't done anything to make me think he's the right coach for this team save for a stealth tank scenario.

    Goaltending - C-
    Overall it's been one of our biggest strengths. Howard has been solid though unspectacular. Coreau is meh. Mrazek was up and down. I'm all for moving Howard asap and running with whomever.

    Young guys - B-
    These are the players we all care most about. Larkin has been fantastic. Bert acclimated really fast and that's a great sign. Frk did Frk things, so pretty decent. Mantha is capable of so much more and it makes me sad he's not taking enough advantage of these opportunities. Next year he might be competing with Ras and maybe even this year's 1st. AA is better off on a team that can afford to let him play the way he wants to play. I seriously doubt Blash will deviate from Babcock's defensive style in the coming season.

    Older guys - D
    For me this is a "who cares" category. I look at most of these players as either trade bait pieces or count the years on their contracts.

    Defense - D-
    The only reason it's not a straight up F is Green's production and Ericsson's surprisingly not awful season. Feelsbadman.
     
  11. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Where's the proof that waiting until deadline of the UFA year maximizes return.
    We just got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Tomas Tatar.

    Whatever the GM's strategy, in the end, you're judged by results.
    So if your strategy is to wait until the end, and then in it blows up in your face and you're left with nothing? Well, that's on you. That's a choice you made and it cost you.
     
    Syckle78 likes this.
  12. RedWingzz

    RedWingzz All in for Dahlin

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,984
    Likes Received:
    205
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Ottawa
    A+ for Larkin?

    Sure he had a great year, but he only scored 15 goals. I'd give him an A-. A+ season would be where they literally cannot get any better, like Barzal for the Isles, that's an A+ season. There is still room for improvement for Larkin.
     
  13. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    78 trades before Feb. 15
    33 trades after Feb. 15
     
  14. kliq

    kliq Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    I guess if you are using results oriented thinking, I can see why you think the way you do. My approach is to always make the decision that gives me the highest probability of success.

    As far as "proof" goes, You can't "prove" what they would have gotten in a different situation. I would never ask you to "prove" what he would have gotten in December because its an impossible thing to do.

    Do you think we get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Tatar in December? I don't. I don't think the TDL is necessarily a time where you can ONLY sell UFA's, I think its the time of year that teams become desperate and you can trade players in general for high returns. UFA's just happen to the easiest asset to move
     
  15. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    LOL.
    Tomas Tatar was traded 3 years before becoming a UFA.
    He proves my point.
    You don't need to wait until the deadline of UFA season - backing yourself into a corner -- to get maximum return.
    We should have marketed mike Green at last year's deadline.

    Between now and the Feb 28 trade deadline - Red Wing Center
     
  16. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    It's not an impossible thing to do.
    You're the one making the assertion that the trade deadline of a UFA year is when you maximize a players value.

    I'm saying you can trade a guy at any time and get good value. And that waiting until last minute can leave you holding your dick.

    And I'm right. Mike Green proves it.
    Last year on RWC, when I was saying we should trade Green (at the end of January), one of the reasons was because 1) Mike Green was having a good year (in the goal scoring department) and could easily fall off. So why risk losing value 2) Mike Green could get hurt and be untradeable.

    We could easily eat salary or take salary back.'

    There are pressure points for trades throughout a season.

    The trade deadline is one of them.
    But it can backfire.

    Ottawa wasn't scuttling the market with Karlsson in January.
    NY Rangers weren't scuttling the market with McDonough in January.

    You get closer to the deadline and you've got more sellers and fewer buyers.

    So while the 'Keeping up with the Joneses" mentality can help with demand, other factors reduce demand and increase supply.

    And as I've said, all Tomas Tatar proves is that Ken Holland should have traded Green last year.

    But my guess is that the Holland excuse makers back then were saying "But he'll get a bigger return at the trade deadline in his UFA year."
     
  17. kliq

    kliq Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    In this one situation using results oriented thinking, yes you are right.
    This happens 9 more times, I believe you get a higher return at the TDL with a player like Green.
    I think this was the outlier.

    Agree to disagree, I dont feel like going on for two more pages about this.
     
  18. StargateSG1

    StargateSG1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Perhaps sitting your # 1 trade asset, to make sure he doesn't get hurt and not giving out NTCs like Halloween candy would be a good idea.
     
  19. Frk It

    Frk It Crap Space

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    24,783
    Likes Received:
    852
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    We’re talking about different things then. I thought your issue was we didn’t move him a month or two before the deadline.
     
  20. Pavels Dog

    Pavels Dog Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    9,935
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Sweden
    Despite the general vibe of doom and gloom and zero hope around here, the players, coaches and management still try to win games. A garbage defense sitting their (by far) best d-man when healthy to avoid a completely hypothetical scenario of a bad injury happening right before the TDL?

    Don't think I'd give a D or F to anyone either.
     
  21. StargateSG1

    StargateSG1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Smart GMs do that all the time, protect the trade assets from getting injured before the TDL.
    Perhaps you haven't heard of this widely practiced option.
     
  22. Pavels Dog

    Pavels Dog Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    9,935
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Sweden
    For two weeks, while still being in a position where playoffs isn't out of the question? Receipts please.
     
  23. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    I understand why you don't want to go on.
    You can only mention Tomas Tatar so many times without understanding what that does to your argument.
     
  24. obey86

    obey86 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6,115
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    71
    If the team is an F (it is) it doesn't make any sense for every single player to be a C and higher. It's like finishing your chemistry class with an F grade despite the fact you got A's, B's, and C's on all assignments and tests throughout the year.

    And if you're grading based on your previous expectation of the players (which I assume will be your response if you also don't have any D or F graded players) then the team should also have an A grade for the season since we all assumed they would be near the bottom of the league and that's exactly where they finished.
     
  25. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,629
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    106
    My issues is that we didn't trade him at all.
    We've had a long time to trade him.

    Around January of 2017 - it was time to start marketing him. Maybe even sooner.

    I'd start looking at moving Daley fairly soon. There's no advantage to us to wait until the trade deadline of his UFA year.

    That's complacent thinking.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"