2017-18 Around the League

[Pokecheque]

Dumba was also one big reason the Wylde managed to turn around their early OT troubles IIRC.

I'm not so sure you'd get that much by dealing depth players like Brodin, Dumba, and Coyle (I'm guessing Coyle's a goner one way or another). Those guys aren't the problem. It's their stars. They built this team around two guys who were, when they were signed, two elite players in their primes (I used to rag on Suter a lot, I've since changed my tune mostly). Those guys are approaching 35 now, and Parise is running aground due to injury, and Suter has already said that he doesn't know if he'll ever recover fully from the broken leg that ended his season. You have to have game-breaking elite talent to win the Big Prize, and I don't think the Wylde have that, at least not anymore. And I still say the most important ingredient to a Stanley Cup winner is that 1-2 punch at center. I also don't think Minnesota has ever had that. How do they get there? I don't know, but I don't think they're a few "tweaks" away from being a true contender. I personally think their window closed a while back. Russo put it best recently, that core is spent. It's gonna be a MAJOR retooling before this team is truly ready, and it might take even more than that.

 

[Balthazar]

@henchman24 and others

 

[CobraAcesS]

Dumba was also one big reason the Wylde managed to turn around their early OT troubles IIRC.

I'm not so sure you'd get that much by dealing depth players like Brodin, Dumba, and Coyle (I'm guessing Coyle's a goner one way or another). Those guys aren't the problem. It's their stars. They built this team around two guys who were, when they were signed, two elite players in their primes (I used to rag on Suter a lot, I've since changed my tune mostly). Those guys are approaching 35 now, and Parise is running aground due to injury, and Suter has already said that he doesn't know if he'll ever recover fully from the broken leg that ended his season. You have to have game-breaking elite talent to win the Big Prize, and I don't think the Wylde have that, at least not anymore. And I still say the most important ingredient to a Stanley Cup winner is that 1-2 punch at center. I also don't think Minnesota has ever had that. How do they get there? I don't know, but I don't think they're a few "tweaks" away from being a true contender. I personally think their window closed a while back. Russo put it best recently, that core is spent. It's gonna be a MAJOR retooling before this team is truly ready, and it might take even more than that.

Apparently it just takes a good coach and insane goaltending.

 

[McMetal]

Dumba was also one big reason the Wylde managed to turn around their early OT troubles IIRC.

I'm not so sure you'd get that much by dealing depth players like Brodin, Dumba, and Coyle (I'm guessing Coyle's a goner one way or another). Those guys aren't the problem. It's their stars. They built this team around two guys who were, when they were signed, two elite players in their primes (I used to rag on Suter a lot, I've since changed my tune mostly). Those guys are approaching 35 now, and Parise is running aground due to injury, and Suter has already said that he doesn't know if he'll ever recover fully from the broken leg that ended his season. You have to have game-breaking elite talent to win the Big Prize, and I don't think the Wylde have that, at least not anymore. And I still say the most important ingredient to a Stanley Cup winner is that 1-2 punch at center. I also don't think Minnesota has ever had that. How do they get there? I don't know, but I don't think they're a few "tweaks" away from being a true contender. I personally think their window closed a while back. Russo put it best recently, that core is spent. It's gonna be a MAJOR retooling before this team is truly ready, and it might take even more than that.

It sounds like ownership there is not going to want to hear that prescription though. It would probably be smart for them to start a true rebuild now and try for Lafreniere in 2020, but unlike the Rangers, who basically told everybody they were going into a rebuild phase, that franchise has indicated they want to remain competitive. I wonder what Fenton promised them in the interview about how quickly he could turn the team around, or if he even told them the truth about them needing a new core at all.

 

[henchman21]

@henchman24 and others

Nothing can happen until mid July, but he'd be an excellent guy to bring in here... can't see it happening though.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Nothing can happen until mid July, but he'd be an excellent guy to bring in here... can't see it happening though.

Is he really as good as he’s given credit for, though? The Leafs haven’t exactly drafted incredibly well outside the first round since he took over. I know he’s a great evaluator of talent, but a few Leafs fans on the main board were saying he tried too hard to draft smarter than everyone else, and nothing came of it.

His legacy with London is obviously outstanding, but I’m not sure he would be such a home run at the NHL level as so many people think.

 

[henchman21]

Is he really as good as he’s given credit for, though? The Leafs haven’t exactly drafted incredibly well outside the first round since he took over. I know he’s a great evaluator of talent, but a few Leafs fans on the main board were saying he tried too hard to draft smarter than everyone else, and nothing came of it.

His legacy with London is obviously outstanding, but I’m not sure he would be such a home run at the NHL level as so many people think.

Yeah, he's as good or better than given credit for. He didn't only run the draft, he has run the whole scouting department there. So he not only should get credit for prospects like Marner (not as clear of pick as people make it seem now)/Dermott/Bracco/Grundstrom... he gets it for Zaitsev/Hyman/Borgman/Andersen... The guy has a great track record in London and in Toronto. Toronto fans are just doing the normal justifications as somebody is on their way out.

 

[Tweaky]

Talking about Minny, Fenton has his work cut out for him. There are plenty of assets that could be moved for picks/prospects, but those are mostly the ones you want to keep around. The ones he should want to dump are mostly hard to move. Nobody is going to want to pay much for Parise, or even Suter, at this point. And that is even if you could talk them into waiving their NMCs. Best case on those two is that they decide to retire for the last 3 years of those contracts.

After the season he just had, Staal should not be too hard to move. And with Koivu starting a new contract, my feeling is that Eric is on the way out for a decent return. The rest of the forwards are either already gone, young and reasonably priced enough to hang on to, or should be resigned (Zucker). Ennis is another that could/should be moved, but he is expensive for his recent production.

On the back end as eventual UFAs, Prosser is buryable, Suter is a contract anchor, Spurgeon is at that age to be a young vet leader and is on a reasonable contract, and Brodin is 24 and even cheaper.

The biggest issue is over $20M in cap hit tied up in 3 guys that are on the downslope of great careers, with contracts that pretty much preclude them from moving any time soon. And that is the leadership of the team (C and both As).

Some of the prime age guys (24-28) could be moved for solid returns, but that means relying even more on ELC and bridge age to step up to roles they may not be ready for. If they really wanted to retool, they could shed everyone over 26 they can, using the rest as mentors to the youngsters brought in or up, and plan to go shopping in a few years...but we all know that kind of thing does not really happen.

I am running MIN in the mock, only trade I managed to pull off was Nino+3rd for Frost and Sushko out of PHI...zero interest in any of the 30+ guys apart from one half hearted inquiry about Staal. Plenty of asks for Brodin, Spurgeon, Coyle, Foligno and Granlund...but all were of the "let me take that guy I really like off your hands as a favor to you, here is an old cap anchor and late pick to make it look even" or "how about a couple B prospects or 2nd/3rd round picks for that top6/4 guy that is signed to a realistic contract" type deals. Even that Nino trade was more risk than I really wanted to do, but meh. Did have a couple died after much haggling due to other deals by the opposing GM, or NMCs getting in the way.

And they have to hope they can pry Kaprizov out of Russia. Which I did not do in the mock out of a sense of realism and fair play....


All of which boils down to a few years of getting to watch Minny struggle in the mid-pack hell that precludes high picks or real playoff hopes.

 

[Murzu]

@Tweaky I ran Mild in the mock last year and while I knew they're screwed, I really found it out when I took a closer look at their depth and prospects etc. And after that, the core is yet again one more older and more damaged (Parise).

I'm so glad to see them suffer for at least half a decade more.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Yeah, he's as good or better than given credit for. He didn't only run the draft, he has run the whole scouting department there. So he not only should get credit for prospects like Marner (not as clear of pick as people make it seem now)/Dermott/Bracco/Grundstrom... he gets it for Zaitsev/Hyman/Borgman/Andersen... The guy has a great track record in London and in Toronto. Toronto fans are just doing the normal justifications as somebody is on their way out.

I'll take your word for it, Henchy. You're much more knowledgeable about the workings of NHL front offices than I am, that's for sure. I figured TO fans wouldn't bash the dude if he had solid drafts, which, upon hindsight, is pretty middle-of-the-pack. Do you think that with a few more years he would've been able to turn Toronto into the next Tampa when it comes to drafting?

As for his trade targets, I didn't know he ran the pro scouting department, as well. That does add to his legacy in my mind. The Andersen deal will pay dividends for the Leafs for years to come. In the unlikely event he was interested in coming to Colorado, would you let him take over more than the scouting department, ie would you appoint him as GM?

 

[henchman21]

I'll take your word for it, Henchy. You're much more knowledgeable about the workings of NHL front offices than I am, that's for sure. I figured TO fans wouldn't bash the dude if he had solid drafts, which, upon hindsight, is pretty middle-of-the-pack. Do you think that with a few more years he would've been able to turn Toronto into the next Tampa when it comes to drafting?

As for his trade targets, I didn't know he ran the pro scouting department, as well. That does add to his legacy in my mind. The Andersen deal will pay dividends for the Leafs for years to come. In the unlikely event he was interested in coming to Colorado, would you let him take over more than the scouting department, ie would you appoint him as GM?

I wouldn't go as far as saying Tampa (track record as much as anything), but Toronto has been a top 5 drafting team since Hunter has been there. That 2015 and 2016 look especially strong for them. I could see 7-9 NHL players between those drafts quite easily.

I'd hire Hunter as a GM in a heartbeat in a lot of organizations.

 

[Papa Francouz]

I wouldn't go as far as saying Tampa (track record as much as anything), but Toronto has been a top 5 drafting team since Hunter has been there. That 2015 and 2016 look especially strong for them. I could see 7-9 NHL players between those drafts quite easily.

I'd hire Hunter as a GM in a heartbeat in a lot of organizations.

According to Leafs fans, the 2015 draft was co-run by Dubas and Hunter. I agree that 2016 looks decent for them, but their 2017 draft really isn't much to write home about. Apart from Liljegren and maybe Rasanen, I wouldn't say they hit it out of the park with that draft. And this was one of the drafts where Hunter held the reigns for the entire thing, apparently.

As for appointing him as GM, I guess I would need to know what he would have done regarding the Duchene deal if he were in charge at the time before being comfortable having him run the show. I think Sakic has done a really good job with trades in his tenure, and I imagine having Hunter on board would allow for the trades to be even better. I'm just not sure if Hunter would be able to show the same kind of grueling patience that Sakic did during the whole Duchene debacle.

This is all probably a moot point anyway, though. I'm sure the Avs will at least reach out to Hunter to see if he's interested in taking a gig here, but if they insist on him taking a lower role under Sakic before moving into the GM role, I'm sure Hunter will look elsewhere. I'd love to have him on board for his talent evaluation alone. I'd just be hesitant to hand him the keys to the kingdom since the Avs' recent trades are the only things really giving us a glimmer of hope for future competitiveness, and his trading track record at the NHL level is nonexistent.

 

[RockLobster]

Sakic having patience is sort of a double-edge sword, with regard to the Duchene trade. And I believe way too many people are allowing that to color their view of him as the GM.

Joe got pretty f***ing lucky that both OTT and NSH wanted the players they ended up with. If neither of them wanted what they got, then we're either looking at an unhappy Duchene still on the team (and remember, it's now public that he asked for a trade--something I and others hinted at for a while), or the offers get worse because he overplayed his hand and couldn't pull the trigger.

I'm not saying I'm unhappy with anything the Avs got in return, not at all, but I do believe Joe sort of allowed himself to be boxed in to a corner due to his patience, and only found a good avenue out of that when Dorion really wanted Matt and Poile really wanted Turris.

Based on Henchy's description of Hunter, I'd be all for him coming in as the GM of this team and allowing Joe to take on a President of Hockey Operations role, just sort of still being there since he's such a massive figure to the team.

 

[McMetal]

Sakic did get lucky to get as much as he did, but he could also have panicked and taken Murray+Abramov+2nd. He should at least get credit for that.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Sakic having patience is sort of a double-edge sword, with regard to the Duchene trade. And I believe way too many people are allowing that to color their view of him as the GM.

Joe got pretty ****ing lucky that both OTT and NSH wanted the players they ended up with. If neither of them wanted what they got, then we're either looking at an unhappy Duchene still on the team (and remember, it's now public that he asked for a trade--something I and others hinted at for a while), or the offers get worse because he overplayed his hand and couldn't pull the trigger.

I'm not saying I'm unhappy with anything the Avs got in return, not at all, but I do believe Joe sort of allowed himself to be boxed in to a corner due to his patience, and only found a good avenue out of that when Dorion really wanted Matt and Poile really wanted Turris.

Based on Henchy's description of Hunter, I'd be all for him coming in as the GM of this team and allowing Joe to take on a President of Hockey Operations role, just sort of still being there since he's such a massive figure to the team.

Can't say I disagree with you, RL. I look at the Kessel deal and see a deal that was rushed through by Toronto, for reasons I'm not privy to. And the only piece Toronto really has to show for Kessel is Kapanen, which, while not bad, is not all you want to see after trading your star winger that had been a fan favorite for 5 or so years. So even though I greatly trust Henchy's opinion when it comes to this type of thing, I would also have to show a little bit of hesitancy when it comes to Hunter due to not knowing how he would do at the trading part of being a GM.

I imagine my hesitancy would lead to Hunter going elsewhere, and sometimes you just have to be aggressive when it comes to making moves. I tend to be a bit "safer" when it comes to this type of thing, so that should help to explain my questioning of Hunter's ability. I agree wholeheartedly that Sakic should be "promoted" to a new position sooner rather than later, and I would undoubtedly come around to liking someone like Hunter after he shows off his scouting ability when it comes to drafts and trades. I'm just hoping Sakic hires his replacement here soon so the org can finally move forward without having that hanging over their heads for the foreseeable future.

 

[Avsrule2022]

IF a new GM were hired, would that mean the end of Billington?

 

[Ivan13]

I don't see a way for Hunter to ever leave Ontario and uproot his family.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't see a way for Hunter to ever leave Ontario and uproot his family.

He may have to if he wants to work in the NHL. There's already some speculation he might replace Snow with the Islanders.

 

[Eltuna]

Can't say I disagree with you, RL. I look at the Kessel deal and see a deal that was rushed through by Toronto, for reasons I'm not privy to. And the only piece Toronto really has to show for Kessel is Kapanen, which, while not bad, is not all you want to see after trading your star winger that had been a fan favorite for 5 or so years. So even though I greatly trust Henchy's opinion when it comes to this type of thing, I would also have to show a little bit of hesitancy when it comes to Hunter due to not knowing how he would do at the trading part of being a GM.

I imagine my hesitancy would lead to Hunter going elsewhere, and sometimes you just have to be aggressive when it comes to making moves. I tend to be a bit "safer" when it comes to this type of thing, so that should help to explain my questioning of Hunter's ability. I agree wholeheartedly that Sakic should be "promoted" to a new position sooner rather than later, and I would undoubtedly come around to liking someone like Hunter after he shows off his scouting ability when it comes to drafts and trades. I'm just hoping Sakic hires his replacement here soon so the org can finally move forward without having that hanging over their heads for the foreseeable future.

Also Anderson, who is probably the only reason they made the playoffs two years ago and the only reason they weren’t a wildcard team this year. They didn’t do great in the Kessel trade but it was pretty tough since he had a lot of say about where he could be traded to. To me getting Hunter would be a no brainer, I imagine the Avs have interest as they had interest in Rychel a little while ago.

 

[UncleRisto]

IF a new GM were hired, would that mean the end of Billington?

Biller is the new GM.

 

[henchman21]

I doubt the Avs are interested in Hunter.... Isles, Flames, Oilers, and Red Wings would be the teams I could see Hunter landing at over the next couple seasons. Isles could happen at any moment... the others would be next spring.

 

[dahrougem2]

I'm excited to see the Wild suck for the next while

 

[Avs_19]

I'm excited to see the Wild suck for the next while

Koivu (35): 2 more years at $5.5M/yr
Parise (34): 7 more years at $7.5M/yr
Suter (33): 7 more years at $7.5M/yr
Dubnyk (32): 3 more years at $4.3M/yr
Niederreiter (26): 4 more years at $5.25M/yr (coming off of a 30 point season)

Also have to pay both Zucker and Dumba this offseason coming off of career years.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

@sportsnetirf: Hearing the Sharks and Evander Kane have agreed to a long-term contract extension. Numbers may be in the 7-years 7-million per range.

 

[henchman21]

$7m for Kane... well... have fun with that.