2016 Rio Olympics | Team USA Discussion

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
All you need to know is she won clean, I know a novel concept.

I don't really believe that about any athlete anymore. Sorry, I just don't at least not in a definitive we know this kind of statement.

Our biggest believed dopers (some of them were never caught conclusively) in the USA have passed tests for years. A real game changer is the re-testing but still there are people that are passing while doping for a long time now. Do I think the US probably has the best access to the highest end stuff? Yes I do and the financial gains still make this worth going with it for many athletes.
 

Miamipuck

Al Swearengen
Dec 29, 2009
7,411
2,693
Take a Wild Guess
I don't really believe that about any athlete anymore. Sorry, I just don't at least not in a definitive we know this kind of statement.

Our biggest believed dopers (some of them were never caught conclusively) in the USA have passed tests for years. A real game changer is the re-testing but still there are people that are passing while doping for a long time now. Do I think the US probably has the best access to the highest end stuff? Yes I do and the financial gains still make this worth going with it for many athletes.

Wonderful I don't sniff fairy dust, so I know there are plenty of dopers that aren't caught and/or never caught. I also realize that some maybe US athletes. You can choose to believe all athletes are dopers, that's your right, I don't share that opinion and look at athletes on an individual basis.


I think I am fairly safe in the assumption Lilly King is clean and she has every right to give an opinion on Gatlin. King has won at every level of the sport, she's not far from being a generational talent in the breastroke, so I am inclined to believe she won on merit. I don't believe for a moment that her high school, club, NCAA and Team USA coaches all made her dope. Based n her track record and progression, I don't think any did. Do I know for 100 percent certainty, no I do not. That said:

The athletes that raise my suspicion are the ones that come out of nowhere at a older than normal age and start crushing world records, like the East Germans of years past or various other individuals. The Chinese swimmers up until the past 20 years were atrocious, never winning a medal. Then all of a sudden a bunch of no names come to the Pan Pacific games and sweep virtually every single event. I don't recall what year that was but it raises suspicion. Then you find out they hired a ton of old out of work East German coaches.

That's the stuff you look for. That's eerily similar to Armstrong's attachment to Ferrari. Where there's smoke there's fire, I don't recall any smoke around Lilly King. You can't just broad stroke all athletes because a few ruin it for everyone else, I am sorry but that's patently ridiculous.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
12,661
15,487
The unfortunate aspect here is that most of the girls on the American team are very talented and likable. I don't know a Canadian fan that doesn't admire or respect Alex Mogan or Carli Lloyd, for instance, but people like Solo or Sydney Leroux represent the worst type of petulance, arrogance, and entitlement in an athlete, and it really sours one's perspective on the rest of the American squad unfortunately.

As a Canadian I actually support Sydney Leroux's actions against Canadian fans. As a dual citizen she is ENTITLED to chose whichever country she wants to represent. But we were salty that she chose the US & early in here career we treated her poorly. Fans called her names and a traitor and ect. She explains it well in an interview. She was watching the Olympics or Womens world cup and USA won. She told her mom she wants to play for THAT team one day. Her mom believed in her dreams. She infact actually was in the Canadian system and they made a mistake by not taking a chance on her so she moved to the States through her paternal heritage to try and achieve her dreams. Can you blame her? It happens for players on both sides in many sports. Many American girls come play for Canada because they are part Canadian... Janine Beckie case in point.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
12,661
15,487
Wonderful I don't sniff fairy dust, so I know there are plenty of dopers that aren't caught and/or never caught. I also realize that some maybe US athletes. You can choose to believe all athletes are dopers, that's your right, I don't share that opinion and look at athletes on an individual basis.


I think I am fairly safe in the assumption Lilly King is clean and she has every right to give an opinion on Gatlin. King has won at every level of the sport, she's not far from being a generational talent in the breastroke, so I am inclined to believe she won on merit. I don't believe for a moment that her high school, club, NCAA and Team USA coaches all made her dope. Based n her track record and progression, I don't think any did. Do I know for 100 percent certainty, no I do not. That said:

The athletes that raise my suspicion are the ones that come out of nowhere at a older than normal age and start crushing world records, like the East Germans of years past or various other individuals. The Chinese swimmers up until the past 20 years were atrocious, never winning a medal. Then all of a sudden a bunch of no names come to the Pan Pacific games and sweep virtually every single event. I don't recall what year that was but it raises suspicion. Then you find out they hired a ton of old out of work East German coaches.

That's the stuff you look for. That's eerily similar to Armstrong's attachment to Ferrari. Where there's smoke there's fire, I don't recall any smoke around Lilly King. You can't just broad stroke all athletes because a few ruin it for everyone else, I am sorry but that's patently ridiculous.

Shouldn't Lilly herself be taking this advice then? I find her highly annoying. It happens, they tested negative they are at the games clean right now. So it shouldn't really matter. I think at some point you have a right to be upset sure, but the personal vendetta has to end. These are still people at the end of the day and they make mistakes. Many make these mistakes because of the FINANCIAL INCENTIVES TEAM USA sets out. So it's do or die to change your life or have a shot at life changing incentives. I really think Federations should carry a brunt of the blame.
 

JaysCyYoung

Registered User
Jan 1, 2009
6,088
17
York Region
I don't have a program with people who play for another national team program that they are eligible for. I have a problem with when they string the national federation along and then proceed to screw them over later by signing on with a different squad. Goalkeeper Asmir Begovic did the same thing a few years ago with Canada after we had developed him throughout his entire youth and junior career. Then he plays for Bosnia? His family might not have even been alive had Canada not taken them in during the Yugoslav Wars.

That pisses people off. If Sydney wanted to play for the United states, she shouldn't have represented Canada beforehand. That and when she blatantly lied about racist taunts that never happened at BMO Field in Toronto has resulted in the animosity towards her.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
12,661
15,487
I don't have a program with people who play for another national team program that they are eligible for. I have a problem with when they string the national federation along and then proceed to screw them over later by signing on with a different squad. Goalkeeper Asmir Begovic did the same thing a few years ago with Canada after we had developed him throughout his entire youth and junior career. Then he plays for Bosnia? His family might not have even been alive had Canada not taken them in during the Yugoslav Wars.

That pisses people off. If Sydney wanted to play for the United states, she shouldn't have represented Canada beforehand. That and when she blatantly lied about racist taunts that never happened at BMO Field in Toronto has resulted in the animosity towards her.

Come on.. how many times does this happen in HOCKEY at the World Junior Level. 1000 times. You take whatever national team opportunity comes your way. She had an opportunity to advance to the senior team quicker by playing with the US and she took full advantage of her opportunity. People need to let it go. Logan Brown just did this with US. Janine Beckie is currently playing for Canada despite growing up in the US system... sooo. Personally I'd take Beckie over Leroux any day so who cares. People need to get over it. She chose US. She didn't screw over Canada because she was never in the previous coaches plans. Especially because until Herdman came and moved Christine Sinclair to an Attacking Mid position, she was our striker/lone forward and Leroux wasn't playing over Sinclair
 

DoyleG

Reality sucks, Princesses!
Dec 29, 2008
7,291
882
YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
Come on.. how many times does this happen in HOCKEY at the World Junior Level. 1000 times. You take whatever national team opportunity comes your way. She had an opportunity to advance to the senior team quicker by playing with the US and she took full advantage of her opportunity. People need to let it go. Logan Brown just did this with US. Janine Beckie is currently playing for Canada despite growing up in the US system... sooo. Personally I'd take Beckie over Leroux any day so who cares. People need to get over it. She chose US. She didn't screw over Canada because she was never in the previous coaches plans. Especially because until Herdman came and moved Christine Sinclair to an Attacking Mid position, she was our striker/lone forward and Leroux wasn't playing over Sinclair

:laugh:

Leroux had already made the change long before Herdman ever came to the team. She decided that the 14 year old ego had been bruised too much and felt that "evil forces" were holding her back from her "destiny".

Those of us who follow the national team know the real story. That is one of a pompus little princess who felt she should be given everything in life.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
Wonderful I don't sniff fairy dust, so I know there are plenty of dopers that aren't caught and/or never caught. I also realize that some maybe US athletes. You can choose to believe all athletes are dopers, that's your right, I don't share that opinion and look at athletes on an individual basis.


I think I am fairly safe in the assumption Lilly King is clean and she has every right to give an opinion on Gatlin. King has won at every level of the sport, she's not far from being a generational talent in the breastroke, so I am inclined to believe she won on merit. I don't believe for a moment that her high school, club, NCAA and Team USA coaches all made her dope. Based n her track record and progression, I don't think any did. Do I know for 100 percent certainty, no I do not. That said:

The athletes that raise my suspicion are the ones that come out of nowhere at a older than normal age and start crushing world records, like the East Germans of years past or various other individuals. The Chinese swimmers up until the past 20 years were atrocious, never winning a medal. Then all of a sudden a bunch of no names come to the Pan Pacific games and sweep virtually every single event. I don't recall what year that was but it raises suspicion. Then you find out they hired a ton of old out of work East German coaches.

That's the stuff you look for. That's eerily similar to Armstrong's attachment to Ferrari. Where there's smoke there's fire, I don't recall any smoke around Lilly King. You can't just broad stroke all athletes because a few ruin it for everyone else, I am sorry but that's patently ridiculous.

I don't believe all athletes are dopers. I think the number would probably startle a lot of us though. The point is just because she is the loudest and proudest doesn't mean she is clean at all like you're claiming. Palmeiro and Armstrong are great examples of guys that hid behind outspoken gestures while allegedly doping up a storm.

Your example is also funny in that Justin Gatlin won at every single level of the sport. He has likely done that both clean and dirty, but he didn't have his Olympic Gold Medal taken away because that isn't when he tested positive. We simply don't know.

What I was getting at is I don't know what to believe one way or the other. That isn't why I get an enjoyment out of watching sport to begin with, so in full disclosure I don't care a great deal about this, especially in sports where doping is known to be rampant. However, coming out with a she is clean statement, yeah we all hope so but we have been proven wrong before.

I will say this I am now of the opinion whatever doping measures athletes are using in the United States are fairly advanced. It is stunning to see given that they always bring such a high number how well they have avoided the re-testing on this stuff.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
12,661
15,487
:laugh:

Leroux had already made the change long before Herdman ever came to the team. She decided that the 14 year old ego had been bruised too much and felt that "evil forces" were holding her back from her "destiny".

Those of us who follow the national team know the real story. That is one of a pompus little princess who felt she should be given everything in life.

that's what I said. She was never in the old regimes plans.
 

Miamipuck

Al Swearengen
Dec 29, 2009
7,411
2,693
Take a Wild Guess
Shouldn't Lilly herself be taking this advice then? I find her highly annoying. It happens, they tested negative they are at the games clean right now. So it shouldn't really matter. I think at some point you have a right to be upset sure, but the personal vendetta has to end. These are still people at the end of the day and they make mistakes. Many make these mistakes because of the FINANCIAL INCENTIVES TEAM USA sets out. So it's do or die to change your life or have a shot at life changing incentives. I really think Federations should carry a brunt of the blame.

Ok so your cool with taking performance enhancing drugs till your caught, stop, get banned and now you're a clean athlete because hey you passed a drug test.


Also you understand the definition of broad brush? I don't know English may be a second or third language. Accusing every athlete of being dirty is a broad brush. She was specifically asked about 2 particular athletes (Gatlin and Gay) and gave her opinion on the Russian backstroker. So no she shouldn't be following that advice because she is following that advice. Whether King was annoying or not, she probably rubbed many the wrong way, there are also plenty that support her and/or others that did the same such as the Aussie swimmer, his name escapes me.
 
Last edited:

Miamipuck

Al Swearengen
Dec 29, 2009
7,411
2,693
Take a Wild Guess
I don't believe all athletes are dopers. I think the number would probably startle a lot of us though. The point is just because she is the loudest and proudest doesn't mean she is clean at all like you're claiming. Palmeiro and Armstrong are great examples of guys that hid behind outspoken gestures while allegedly doping up a storm.

Your example is also funny in that Justin Gatlin won at every single level of the sport. He has likely done that both clean and dirty, but he didn't have his Olympic Gold Medal taken away because that isn't when he tested positive. We simply don't know.

What I was getting at is I don't know what to believe one way or the other. That isn't why I get an enjoyment out of watching sport to begin with, so in full disclosure I don't care a great deal about this, especially in sports where doping is known to be rampant. However, coming out with a she is clean statement, yeah we all hope so but we have been proven wrong before.

I will say this I am now of the opinion whatever doping measures athletes are using in the United States are fairly advanced. It is stunning to see given that they always bring such a high number how well they have avoided the re-testing on this stuff.

My example is neither funny nor fool proof, I said as much, meh. We can agree to disagree.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
Come on.. how many times does this happen in HOCKEY at the World Junior Level. 1000 times. You take whatever national team opportunity comes your way. She had an opportunity to advance to the senior team quicker by playing with the US and she took full advantage of her opportunity. People need to let it go. Logan Brown just did this with US. Janine Beckie is currently playing for Canada despite growing up in the US system... sooo. Personally I'd take Beckie over Leroux any day so who cares. People need to get over it. She chose US. She didn't screw over Canada because she was never in the previous coaches plans. Especially because until Herdman came and moved Christine Sinclair to an Attacking Mid position, she was our striker/lone forward and Leroux wasn't playing over Sinclair

She might have gotten up to the team quicker, but she in all likelihood has a shorter international career as a result of going with Team USA. Honestly was surprised she flipped for that reason. Kind of think the same with kids that are clearly down the middle in hockey, your future opportunities are likely greater with Team USA and I think Leroux would have been better off representing Canada.

But it is their individual choice at the end of the day. I am not a duel national and as such cannot really understand the complexity of the directions it pulls you in.
 

DoyleG

Reality sucks, Princesses!
Dec 29, 2008
7,291
882
YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
She might have gotten up to the team quicker, but she in all likelihood has a shorter international career as a result of going with Team USA. Honestly was surprised she flipped for that reason. Kind of think the same with kids that are clearly down the middle in hockey, your future opportunities are likely greater with Team USA and I think Leroux would have been better off representing Canada.

When she got the the U-19 team at the 2004 World Cup, she was an underager that was ranked behind older and more experienced players. Lang and Timko (who both played at the '03 WWC) were on the team as well older youth prospect like Robinson and Jamani. Plus you have to add Sinclair, Hooper, Latham, and Burtini in terms of senior talent to show the ladder she had to climb.

For her not to be taken seriously is not unusual in international football given her age and she would've had her position of leading the U19 in 2006. She was a Captain on the youth team before she had made her switch. Given the stories around the team for the '07 WWC and the '08 Olympics, she likely would've been on the team as a senior player.

It was clear that she decided to take an easier route by going to the USWNT. She had to get her fathers support (from who she was long estranged) in order to get a US Passport. She bumped off talent on the US youth teams because of her actions (thank Ellis of all people). She ends up getting her Olympic and WWC titles playing a very limited factor and with less impact. Her career is now likely over as anyone who wants to manage the USWNT would want to have carte blanche on the team going forward.

But it is their individual choice at the end of the day. I am not a duel national and as such cannot really understand the complexity of the directions it pulls you in.

Money and fame can cause people to do strange things.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
12,661
15,487
No you didn't.

You don't even know what the old regime is.

Come on.. how many times does this happen in HOCKEY at the World Junior Level. 1000 times. You take whatever national team opportunity comes your way. She had an opportunity to advance to the senior team quicker by playing with the US and she took full advantage of her opportunity. People need to let it go. Logan Brown just did this with US. Janine Beckie is currently playing for Canada despite growing up in the US system... sooo. Personally I'd take Beckie over Leroux any day so who cares. People need to get over it. She chose US. She didn't screw over Canada because she was never in the previous coaches plans. Especially because until Herdman came and moved Christine Sinclair to an Attacking Mid position, she was our striker/lone forward and Leroux wasn't playing over Sinclair

Honestly sometimes I think HF Boards is filled with the biggest ********** and idiots. Read before you comment. and Yes I do Even Pellerud coached up until 2008 and we had that Italian woman Carolina whatever her last name was prior to Herdman. Seeing as I am a HUGE Women's soccer fan and have followed the team for a fairly long time, I do know what I'm talking about.

Read before you go making blanket statements. My POST CLEARLY SAYS THAT UNTIL HERDMAN SHOWED UP - Which for you incompetent persons means prior to him coming..., Sinclair wasn't even in an Attacking Mid position. She was already a forward. Plus we had Lang. So I can understand why she chose to do it. People act like it was such an easy decision for her. It was probably a harder process for her to move into the US system. This is Canada's problem they do not fight for our homegrown talent. They have a problem with creating National Identification programs.

As someone who is eligible for dual citizenship, and has competed at a high level in my sport of volleyball and I weighed both my options and have been to training camps for both countries I can identify with her decision. Also family pressures play a role. Most people have to understand she was also so young when she made the decision.
 
Last edited:

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
I am watching USA vs China women basketball

It's like watching some kid getting bullied. What is so exciting about that NBC? Isnt there anything else to show? :help::rant:
 

Cody Webster

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
24,959
22,876
So this thing with Lochte and the other 3 US swimmers is just becoming bizarre. Are they lying?

Lochte left Brazil today, two of the other guys were pulled of their flight tonight and the last guy didnt show up for his flight; the same flight the other two were pulled off of.

Sounds like their story is changing
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
So this thing with Lochte and the other 3 US swimmers is just becoming bizarre. Are they lying?

Lochte left Brazil today, two of the other guys were pulled of their flight tonight and the last guy didnt show up for his flight; the same flight the other two were pulled off of.

Sounds like their story is changing

They have changed some of the details it sounds like. But then again if you know Brazil it isn't tough to believe this did happen either. Been there a few times and you do nothing without security if you're smart.

Also I understand leaving their phones, while highly irregular in that part of the world maybe they did realize who they were robbing and that they could use them to catch up with them. Leaving the watches though makes little sense. Something seems odd here, not sure what the heck happened. I doubt we will either because there is no way the only person that could validate this if it did happen comes forward in the taxi driver and I don't see why the US Swimmers would crack at this point.

Also to be fair it sounds like Lochte had arranged for that as his departure day for quite sometime. Lochte hasn't exactly backed down today either. The two guys they pulled from the plane weren't originally having their passports held, now they are removed from the plane.... The whole thing is weird. You can say they are lying, but my word what were they actually doing that they felt this was how they would cover it up... It also doesn't exactly change the other incidents that have happened during this Olympics but I know why Brazilian authorities look prepared to fight this tooth and nail.
 

Cody Webster

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
24,959
22,876
They have changed some of the details it sounds like. But then again if you know Brazil it isn't tough to believe this did happen either. Been there a few times and you do nothing without security if you're smart.

Also I understand leaving their phones, while highly irregular in that part of the world maybe they did realize who they were robbing and that they could use them to catch up with them. Leaving the watches though makes little sense. Something seems odd here, not sure what the heck happened. I doubt we will either because there is no way the only person that could validate this if it did happen comes forward in the taxi driver and I don't see why the US Swimmers would crack at this point.

Also to be fair it sounds like Lochte had arranged for that as his departure day for quite sometime. Lochte hasn't exactly backed down today either. The two guys they pulled from the plane weren't originally having their passports held, now they are removed from the plane.... The whole thing is weird. You can say they are lying, but my word what were they actually doing that they felt this was how they would cover it up... It also doesn't exactly change the other incidents that have happened during this Olympics but I know why Brazilian authorities look prepared to fight this tooth and nail.

Yea, they did say that Lochte left on his originally planned flight. Watching NBC tonight and they said it sounds like Lochte changed his story a bit. Lochte now says they didnt get pulled over, rather they stopped at a gas station and when they got back in the car, they told the taxi driver to go, and he didn't, so they told him again to go, he still didn't go and the next thing they knew, two guys came up to the car with badges and guns

Who knows.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->