League News: 2015-16 Around the League VI (NHL News n' Scores n' Stuff)

[g00n]

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[g00n]

Just watched the Wideman ruling video, and it's interesting to note that the language used suggests Wideman's side claimed a concussion was later diagnosed, and the league makes their ruling presuming that to be true/fact for the purpose of the ruling. If Wideman's side had presented medical records clearly stating that he was concussed I don't think they use that wording. Which suggests to me the league is skeptical of the claim and made the ruling regardless.

Still, it seems kind of suspect to throw 20 games at the guy regardless of diagnosis confirmation. IMO they're using the letter of the rule and allowing the appeal process to take over.

 

[Corby78]

Just watched the Wideman ruling video, and it's interesting to note that the language used suggests Wideman's side claimed a concussion was later diagnosed, and the league makes their ruling presuming that to be true/fact for the purpose of the ruling. If Wideman's side had presented medical records clearly stating that he was concussed I don't think they use that wording. Which suggests to me the league is skeptical of the claim and made the ruling regardless.

Still, it seems kind of suspect to throw 20 games at the guy regardless of diagnosis confirmation. IMO they're using the letter of the rule and allowing the appeal process to take over.

To me the concussion excuse holds no water. He obviously didn't have any issue calmly skating back to the bench, he obviously had no issue with laying a guy out, and he kept playing after the fact. Besides that, if it truly would have been a head issue, that would have been the first thing out of Wideman's mouth after the game. He said nothing of the sort. Glad he got 20, wish he would have gotten more, he needs to just come clean and admit he let his anger get the best of him. People would move on a lot faster.

 

[Stewie G]

From what I read, he wanted to keep the blame off the training staff for letting him go back out there. Wideman never seemed to me to be the type to go after another player in that manner, much less an unsuspecting official. Maybe I'd be more likely to attribute the hit to malice if he had some sort of history of crossing the line, but as far as I know he hasn't. If this was someone like Matt Cooke, then go ahead and throw the book at him.

 

[RandyHolt]

There goes his chance at the Byng...

 

[twabby]

To me the concussion excuse holds no water. He obviously didn't have any issue calmly skating back to the bench, he obviously had no issue with laying a guy out, and he kept playing after the fact. Besides that, if it truly would have been a head issue, that would have been the first thing out of Wideman's mouth after the game. He said nothing of the sort. Glad he got 20, wish he would have gotten more, he needs to just come clean and admit he let his anger get the best of him. People would move on a lot faster.

He said he apologized to the ref shortly after the incident, probably after he had a few minutes to collect himself. He was also diagnosed with a concussion so it was indeed a head issue according to a doctor. He presented this medical information during the hearing but the NHL basically said "you should have still known better." I disagree with their evaluation.

People react to concussions differently. You can be perfectly balanced but still not be able to see straight. I believe him when he said he didn't notice the linesman because he sustained a concussion 10 seconds prior. It's the easiest explanation for what happened, certainly more plausible than "guy with no history intentionally drills a linesman because of a non-call that a referee would make."

 

[Hivemind]

Being concussed doesn't excuse concussing a linesman.

 

[twabby]

I think if he didn't see the guy it eliminates any sense of intent, which is the basis for his 20 game suspension per the rulebook.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I think if he didn't see the guy it eliminates any sense of intent, which is the basis for his 20 game suspension per the rulebook.

He knew where the linesman was, he looked at Brodie for the line change and the ref was in the way. Unless he was looking at his toes on his way to the bench, how could he not see the ref before AND after shoving him in the back?

Even if that was a player instead of a linesman, what he did is extremely dangerous. The ref had to go to the hospital.

 

[Hivemind]

He forcefully crosschecked him from behind. Regardless of how far in advance he saw him, that is not an appropriate reaction to an oncoming collision.

 

[g00n]

I have been offline all morning can someone provide a link to a source that says an actual medical diagnosis from a doctor was presented at the hearing? Because the explanation in the video suggest that Weidman's camp only claimed that he had been diagnosedand the league made the ruling while just assuming that that was true

 

[twabby]

Getting your hands up and pushing away is a perfectly natural reflex that happens when you are about to collide with someone that you see at the last second.

I just think people here don't understand how bad concussions can be. I'd bet he couldn't even see Brodie on the bench, he just had a general idea of where the bench was based on the situation. He sustained a concussion just 10 seconds earlier so it's really hard for me to believe his mind was on anything other than "I'm really messed up I need to get to the bench."

 

[twabby]

I have been offline all morning can someone provide a link to a source that says an actual medical diagnosis from a doctor was presented at the hearing? Because the explanation in the video suggest that Weidman's camp only claimed that he had been diagnosedand the league made the ruling while just assuming that that was true

The video said "he was later diagnosed as having suffered a concussion." Only a doctor can diagnose that.

 

[Stewie G]

Being concussed doesn't excuse concussing a linesman.

Why not? If he didn't know what he was doing, how can he be at fault? If the courts allow insanity as an "excuse", I don't see how this is that dissimilar a situation.

 

[Hivemind]

I've been concussed twice. The second was severe enough to cause memory loss (I still don't remember the incident happening or the half an hour or so afterwards).

A concussion is not an excuse to cross check someone. He didn't simply put his hands up. He put both hands on the stick (where as, a moment prior, he had the wherewithal to do a single hand tap with his stick to signal a line change) and pushed forwards with his stick against the back of Don Henderson.

 

[g00n]

The video said "he was later diagnosed as having suffered a concussion." Only a doctor can diagnose that.

Lacks context. The video said that per Wideman's camp they were told he was diagnosed, and the league was taking their word for it and ruling regardless. Listen to the exact wording.

 

[twabby]

Lacks context. The video said that per Wideman's camp they were told he was diagnosed, and the league was taking their word for it and ruling regardless. Listen to the exact wording.

So are you saying he lied about his concussion in order to have an excuse for hitting the linesman? Even after seeing the video of his head slamming into the boards? Even after seeing him hunched over immediately after the hit? Even after seeing him obviously dazed on the bench?

That's a big stretch and you know it.

 

[Hivemind]

So are you saying he lied about his concussion in order to have an excuse for hitting the linesman? Even after seeing the video of his head slamming into the boards? Even after seeing him hunched over immediately after the hit? Even after seeing him obviously dazed on the bench?

That's a big stretch and you know it.

I don't doubt he was concussed, but none of what you mentioned there is even close to conclusive evidence. That's all circumstantial.

 

[g00n]

So are you saying he lied about his concussion in order to have an excuse for hitting the linesman? Even after seeing the video of his head slamming into the boards? Even after seeing him hunched over immediately after the hit? Even after seeing him obviously dazed on the bench?

That's a big stretch and you know it.

I'm telling you what the video actually contained.

Didn't you previously say Widemen likely lied about NOT having one? So he lied to the media and everyone else, but couldn't have lied in the hearing?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I've been concussed twice. The second was severe enough to cause memory loss (I still don't remember the incident happening or the half an hour or so afterwards).

A concussion is not an excuse to cross check someone. He didn't simply put his hands up. He put both hands on the stick (where as, a moment prior, he had the wherewithal to do a single hand tap with his stick to signal a line change) and pushed forwards with his stick against the back of Don Henderson.

Kariya scored a goal and has no recollection of doing so.

I'm not a doctor so I won't argue whether it's within the realm of possibility that Wideman didn't know what he was doing. But this is a nightmare for the NHL in any case as it shines a light on head injuries and they've largely stayed out of that conversation (excepting enforcers).

 

[twabby]

I'm telling you what the video actually contained.

Didn't you previously say Widemen likely lied about NOT having one? So he lied to the media and everyone else, but couldn't have lied in the hearing?

Wideman was not formally diagnosed and examined during the game (a huge mistake on the Flames and the NHL's part). He doesn't know if he has a concussion, he's a competitive athlete and he's going to do anything to get back onto the ice whether it's a smart thing or not. This includes telling the trainer and coach that he's fine even if he's not.

If the NHL isn't doubting that he actually sustained a concussion, why are you? It's the weirdest thing to be arguing.

 

[g00n]

Wideman was not formally diagnosed and examined during the game (a huge mistake on the Flames and the NHL's part). He doesn't know if he has a concussion, he's a competitive athlete and he's going to do anything to get back onto the ice whether it's a smart thing or not. This includes telling the trainer and coach that he's fine even if he's not.

If the NHL isn't doubting that he actually sustained a concussion, why are you? It's the weirdest thing to be arguing.

I don't know what happened and neither do you. I already said I initially thought he had one but the chances seemed slimmer (not impossible) if he wasn't claiming he had one when half a million dollars was at stake. He eventually did make the claim at the hearing, but the circumstances are muddy.

Only a medical diagnosis of a concussion proves a concussion was sustained. That hasn't been produced, only alleged during the hearing.

 

[twabby]

Do you actually need to see a signed medical report to believe that he had a concussion before continuing with the discussion? The NHL believed him and STILL handed down a 20 game suspension. Let's just assume he had a concussion because common sense and the statements made by the Flames and the NHL indicate that he was formally diagnosed.

Here's an example of what a concussion can do to a guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9M7liDRclQ
Balance is perfect, vision seems okay, can run off the field just fine. But he has no idea what team he is playing for due to a concussion. Do you think the guy intended to go on the wrong side of the field? No, that would be ludicrous.

Why is it so hard to believe that something similar could have happened to Wideman? The NHL is claiming that Wideman intentionally hit the linesman while having suffered a concussion 10 seconds earlier. I'd like to hear why you think that is more likely than my explanation of what happened.

 

[g00n]

Do you actually need to see a signed medical report to believe that he had a concussion before continuing with the discussion? The NHL believed him and STILL handed down a 20 game suspension.

Here's an example of what a concussion can do to a guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9M7liDRclQ
Balance is perfect, vision seems okay, can run off the field just fine. But he has no idea what team he is playing for due to a concussion.

Why is it so hard to believe that something similar could have happened to Wideman?

It's not. I've said as much. You're knocking down strawman after strawman. How many times do I have to say it's possible, but not proven to the extent you claim?

I don't need to see anything other than the league saying THEY were presented with an official diagnosis. That hasn't happened. Yet.

 

[twabby]

Some of the responses here frankly disturb me. With how much is coming out about concussions and how they affect not only physical things like balance and vision, but cognitive things like decision making and mood, you would think Wideman would get more of a benefit of the doubt especially given his clean record before the incident.

His head hits the boards really hard, and he was concussed. You might need to wait for public statements from the doctor who diagnosed him, but I don't. Everything he does from the moment he was impacted to his post-game comments (and possibly until today) were likely to be significantly impacted from the hit he received to the head.

There was a systematic failure by the league and the Flames medical staff to properly assess the hit to Wideman (and the linesman, for that matter, who also stayed in and finished the game).