2014 Free Agency drags on ...

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Jacob8hockey*

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Friedman "...& I heard the Leafs called and asked about Thornton"
Friedman "the Leafs said, if Thornton's available we'd like to talk about this with you and him."
Friedman "it didn't go anywhere because the Sharks were interested in shaking things up but didn't want to move Thornton"

Via Hope Smoke

That is referencing a year and a half ago when the Sharks sold off Murray and Clowe. Friedman said after that he isn't sure what the Leafs position would be today even though Nonis is still the GM.
 

TheCLAM

Registered User
Oct 11, 2012
3,945
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Niagara Falls
What's with everyone's everyone's love for Strome.. He's a good young player, but no different than anyone of our young players at this point.
 
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p.l.f.

use the force
Feb 27, 2002
47,486
1
Toronto, CANADA
Thornton stripped of his captaincy eh ?
And Marleau stripped of his 'A'

Any deal for them would have to include the Clarkson lol
 
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Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,850
51,517
In my opinion, I think they would be looking to get a defenceman that is either playing in the NHL or could potentially make the team out of camp this year.

If you look at their roster, a majority of their forwards are 26 and younger.

Tavares - 23
Bailey - 24
Nelson - 22
Grabner - 26
Okposo - 26

Where does Strome fit into that? You've got all of those players locked up, along with the long term contracts that they just dished out to Kulemin and Grabovski.

Strome is talented and I'm sure they aren't going to give him up cheap. It would be something around a Matt Finn or Stuart Percy.

Bailey is garbage. I'm sure he's not in their plans.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
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Toronto, ON
I think your getting the wrong numbers for strome?

Hes done nothing but light up the AHL so far. That .49 average is what he has done so far in the NHL. His AHL PPG is 1.19. His "rookie" season, which is was after his junior team got eliminate still had him getting 7pts in 10 games. This last season had him putting up 49 pts in 37 games in the AHL which is his real rookie season and be pretty much blew everyone out of the water at that age this year.

You're right. That's my bad.

Regardless, I think that Strome is going to be similar to Kadri in his career path. He's a #2 centreman and I don't think he has the size to be a #1.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Bailey is garbage. I'm sure he's not in their plans.

It doesn't matter if he's garbage or not.

The biggest thing for the Islanders is fitting key veterans in their line-up. While they overpaid for both Grabovski and Kulemin, they desperately needed those type of players in their line-up. For their sake, it will hopefully take some heat off the top line and allow others to fall in line (so to speak).

Similarly speaking, the Oilers have faced this problem for a while. They have had the youngsters in Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle, but who did they surround them with? Ryan Smyth? No offense to Smyth, but they needed more talent around them.

They started to figure it out last year after trading Paajarvi for Perron. Perron actually had some experience and chipped in for some goals this year and helped them out a lot. Then they were more active this off-season trading for Purcell and signing Pouliot.

The point I'm trying to make here is that constantly adding young talent like Strome into the line-up isn't going to go far. They need to turn Strome into a winger with NHL experience and can play in the top 6. They should be looking at players like Chris Stewart, James Neal, Joffrey Lupul type of players.
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
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It doesn't matter if he's garbage or not.

The biggest thing for the Islanders is fitting key veterans in their line-up. While they overpaid for both Grabovski and Kulemin, they desperately needed those type of players in their line-up. For their sake, it will hopefully take some heat off the top line and allow others to fall in line (so to speak).

Similarly speaking, the Oilers have faced this problem for a while. They have had the youngsters in Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle, but who did they surround them with? Ryan Smyth? No offense to Smyth, but they needed more talent around them.

They started to figure it out last year after trading Paajarvi for Perron. Perron actually had some experience and chipped in for some goals this year and helped them out a lot. Then they were more active this off-season trading for Purcell and signing Pouliot.

The point I'm trying to make here is that constantly adding young talent like Strome into the line-up isn't going to go far. They need to turn Strome into a winger with NHL experience and can play in the top 6. They should be looking at players like Chris Stewart, James Neal, Joffrey Lupul type of players.


Brock Nelson-JT-Okposo
Strome-Grabbo-Kuli
Bailey-Frans Nielsen-Grabner


That gives the isles a WHOPPING 2 kids in the top 9. Both sophomores.Isles will not be trading their bluechip prospect for a Chris Stewart, James Neal, Joffrey Lupul type of player.
Strome put up 14 pts in the last 22 games, after being called up and playing on a line with grinders.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Brock Nelson-JT-Okposo
Strome-Grabbo-Kuli
Bailey-Frans Nielsen-Grabner


That gives the isles a WHOPPING 2 kids in the top 9. Both sophomores.Isles will not be trading their bluechip prospect for a Chris Stewart, James Neal, Joffrey Lupul type of player.
Strome put up 14 pts in the last 22 games, after being called up and playing on a line with grinders.

How old are these players? From the lines that you gave, here are the ages:

22 - 23 - 26

21 - 30 - 28

24 - 30 - 26

They also have Cizikas at 23 and Lee at 24.

That's fine if you want to ignore my point just above that one to make yours, but I'm saying that they need more veterans around them. The oldest player upfront is 30? You absolutely need a mix of young players and veterans.
 

Rielly4

Registered User
Dec 12, 2012
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I dont know, just when i look around the league Strome is the best available young C who is poised for a breakout season soon.

And with there C depth i thought it would be a positive investment to try and take a swing at him.

last year Johansen was nothing but an unproven prospect, now look at him, Strome had better AHL numbers then Johansen too..

Having watched Strome play i know hes a smart two way player who moves the puck very efficiently, i dont see many flaws in his game and his AHL point totals REALLY impressed me.
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
How old are these players? From the lines that you gave, here are the ages:

22 - 23 - 26

21 - 30 - 28

24 - 30 - 26

They also have Cizikas at 23 and Lee at 24.

That's fine if you want to ignore my point just above that one to make yours, but I'm saying that they need more veterans around them. The oldest player upfront is 30? You absolutely need a mix of young players and veterans.

Okposo has been in the league for 6 yrs.
JT's been in the league for 5 yrs.
Grabner's been in the league 4 yrs.
Bailey's been in the league 6 yrs.
Grabbo's been in the league 6 yrs.
Kuli's been in the league 6 yrs.
Frans Nielsen's been in the league for 6 + seasons.

I think the isles top 9 can handle 2 second yr players.
And Carkner's 33.CMac turns 30 just before the season starts. Vis is 37.

I see a good mix of vets and kids. You won't be seeing the isles trade their best prospect in an effort to ' get older":shakehead
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
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I dont know, just when i look around the league Strome is the best available young C who is poised for a breakout season soon.

And with there C depth i thought it would be a positive investment to try and take a swing at him.

last year Johansen was nothing but an unproven prospect, now look at him, Strome had better AHL numbers then Johansen too..

Having watched Strome play i know hes a smart two way player who moves the puck very efficiently, i dont see many flaws in his game and his AHL point totals REALLY impressed me.

Isles GM has already indicated he is not trading his top prospects. Those top young centers, on their ELCs, are being moved to the wing.
 

Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
19,218
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Hope Smoke: Elliotte Friedman: “Here are my thoughts on Phaneuf. He’s a lightning rod here, but he likes to play here” … “In Canada now, if you have guys who like and can handle your market you have to keep them.” … “I look at Gardiner & Rielly. The best thing that can happen to those guys is Dion carrying the load until they’re ready.” … “If Dion’s not there playing all your tough minutes, who’s doing it?” … “Until you give me a satisfactory answer to that question I wouldn’t trade him.”
 

Rielly4

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Dec 12, 2012
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Isles GM has already indicated he is not trading his top prospects. Those top young centers, on their ELCs, are being moved to the wing.

I would not move him either if i was the Isles, really just an idea for us.. Hes the most likely young C yet to have a breakout season to be traded if you look around the league.
 

Rielly4

Registered User
Dec 12, 2012
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613
Hope Smoke: Elliotte Friedman: “Here are my thoughts on Phaneuf. He’s a lightning rod here, but he likes to play here†… “In Canada now, if you have guys who like and can handle your market you have to keep them.†… “I look at Gardiner & Rielly. The best thing that can happen to those guys is Dion carrying the load until they’re ready.†… “If Dion’s not there playing all your tough minutes, who’s doing it?†… “Until you give me a satisfactory answer to that question I wouldn’t trade him.â€

Yeah, i agree its just as a cap strategist your not gonna like that cap hit when Rielly and Gardiner should be taking over top powerplay duty soon.
 

Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
19,218
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Yeah, i agree its just as a cap strategist your not gonna like that cap hit when Rielly and Gardiner should be taking over top powerplay duty soon.

Well that's certainly a consideration but the money that He and Gardiner have signed for, will look pretty good when 5 years roll around and only Rielly will be unsigned and will need a big deal when his turn comes up and that basically has the defensive core under contract and hopefully some of the young guys coming will all be here too, Granberg, Percy, Finn and others and by that time Phanuef will be assessed and perhaps re-signed or possibly traded but he does take the load of minutes and at this time he is needed and I agree with Elliotte Friedman completely.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Okposo has been in the league for 6 yrs.
JT's been in the league for 5 yrs.
Grabner's been in the league 4 yrs.
Bailey's been in the league 6 yrs.
Grabbo's been in the league 6 yrs.
Kuli's been in the league 6 yrs.
Frans Nielsen's been in the league for 6 + seasons.

I think the isles top 9 can handle 2 second yr players.
And Carkner's 33.CMac turns 30 just before the season starts. Vis is 37.

I see a good mix of vets and kids. You won't be seeing the isles trade their best prospect in an effort to ' get older":shakehead

This is the problem that I'm trying to stress.

You NEED older players to succeed. Look at any successful team that has won the cup.

I get that if you want to be a team that is constantly picking in the top 10, then continue to go with "play the kids" mentality. Since 2008, the Islanders have picked in the top 5 five times. And within that time they picked 9th and 15th also.

Look at teams that win. They have a mix of development, drafting high, but also surrounding their players with complimentary players to succeed. I think the Islanders have got the good young players, do a good enough job of development, but the one area that they fail in is getting players around them because the kids aren't going to learn from other kids that have been in the league for a handful of years. If they don't want to trade Strome, then another youngster has to go.

But they need a player like the guys that I mentioned. They don't exactly have to be the 3 that I mentioned, but something like that.

Ideally, they should be trying to land Patrick Sharp. I think that's a perfect fit for a top line with JT and Okposo. Then you shift players where they should be playing. Brock Nelson isn't a top line player. He could be eventually, but not next year.

Also, the guys that you mentioned are defencemen. And if Matt Carkner is your example, I'd be a bit worried.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,456
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So is Josh Leivo just as good as Strome is? Strome put up a 0.48 ppg average, while Leivo posted a 0.71 both in their rookie seasons with the AHL.

Just saying that a player puts up numbers in junior, doesn't always translate to say that they will be great pros.

I'm not saying anything about development. I think it's good that players spend atleast a year in the AHL before going to the NHL. Kadri should have had at least 1 full year in the AHL. Forget bringing him up and down.

Nylander at the age of 17 and 18 was playing with men in the SEL. I think that trumps Strome playing with players of the same age.

Who are these very good defensive prospects that they have coming up? [/QUOTE]

A simple copy and paste:

1. Griffin Reinhart CHL 8.0 C
2. Calvin de Haan Pro 7.5 B
3. Ville Pokka Europe 7.5 C
4. Ryan Pulock CHL 7.5 C
5. Scott Mayfield Pro 7.0 C
6. Adam Pelech CHL 7.0 C
7. Andrey Pedan Pro 7.0 D

As for the rest of your post regarding Nylander, please check the radily available facts before posting anymore.
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
This is the problem that I'm trying to stress.

You NEED older players to succeed. Look at any successful team that has won the cup.

I get that if you want to be a team that is constantly picking in the top 10, then continue to go with "play the kids" mentality. Since 2008, the Islanders have picked in the top 5 five times. And within that time they picked 9th and 15th also.

Look at teams that win. They have a mix of development, drafting high, but also surrounding their players with complimentary players to succeed. I think the Islanders have got the good young players, do a good enough job of development, but the one area that they fail in is getting players around them because the kids aren't going to learn from other kids that have been in the league for a handful of years. If they don't want to trade Strome, then another youngster has to go.

But they need a player like the guys that I mentioned. They don't exactly have to be the 3 that I mentioned, but something like that.

Ideally, they should be trying to land Patrick Sharp. I think that's a perfect fit for a top line with JT and Okposo. Then you shift players where they should be playing. Brock Nelson isn't a top line player. He could be eventually, but not next year.

Also, the guys that you mentioned are defencemen. And if Matt Carkner is your example, I'd be a bit worried.

The isles grey bread is 37 yr old Vis.

They recently tried adding 36 yr old Boyle and 30 yr old Vanek.

I disagree that the isles with several vets in the 29-37 year old age group, are too young., No interest, not even a little in trading a blue chip prospect like Strome in some effort to get older.

We will simply have to disagree.
 

Rielly4

Registered User
Dec 12, 2012
3,630
613
Well that's certainly a consideration but the money that He and Gardiner have signed for, will look pretty good when 5 years roll around and only Rielly will be unsigned and will need a big deal when his turn comes up and that basically has the defensive core under contract and hopefully some of the young guys coming will all be here too, Granberg, Percy, Finn and others and by that time Phanuef will be assessed and perhaps re-signed or possibly traded but he does take the load of minutes and at this time he is needed and I agree with Elliotte Friedman completely.

No d man in the league is getting paid 7 mil per if they are not on there teams top powerplay...

Any 2nd unit Powerplay guy is getting around 5 mil max.

Phaneuf should soon become a 2nd PP unit guy considering how good Rielly and Gardiner are...

I get that Phaneuf is our minute munching guy and he has some defensive prowess compared to the rest of our blueline...But look around the league.

Guys like M.Staal, Girardi, Hamonic, Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic.... These guys are all BETTER minute munching 5 on 5 defensive d men then Dion is... But Dion gets paid more because he also plays the top unit powerplay...If Dion is just a minute munching 5 on 5 guy then id rather have a guy like those listed who is better at it and paid significantly less.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
The isles grey bread is 37 yr old Vis.

They recently tried adding 36 yr old Boyle and 30 yr old Vanek.

I disagree that the isles with several vets in the 29-37 year old age group, are too young., No interest, not even a little in trading a blue chip prospect like Strome in some effort to get older.

We will simply have to disagree.

Yea, trying to sign a player and actually signing a player is completely different. The Leafs wanted Brian Boyle and Dan Boyle and got neither.

Getting older doesn't mean that you're getting worse. That's the mentality though especially on these boards is that every team has to get younger.

The Islanders will have Dal Colle in the next year or so as well.

And I'm not saying that they have to trade Strome 100%. If you can get some return with any other of the young guys, then by all means. But you will get the best return with Strome.

Yes, I guess we will have to disagree.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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Hope Smoke: Elliotte Friedman: “Here are my thoughts on Phaneuf. He’s a lightning rod here, but he likes to play here†… “In Canada now, if you have guys who like and can handle your market you have to keep them.†… “I look at Gardiner & Rielly. The best thing that can happen to those guys is Dion carrying the load until they’re ready.†… “If Dion’s not there playing all your tough minutes, who’s doing it?†… “Until you give me a satisfactory answer to that question I wouldn’t trade him.â€

I don't get EFs fear of say gards playing the tough minutes along with some of the other vets not named dion

geezus the list of 22/23 year old D men in the league playing tough minutes is lengthy

fowler
OEL
Krug

just to name 3, i'll let others do their own research.

and I have to ask what is EF all worked up about, is he worried that without dion being there doing the tough minutes, that we will lose our shot at the cup?

or is he just another one that falls inline with the "just make the playoffs" mentality?
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Yea, trying to sign a player and actually signing a player is completely different. The Leafs wanted Brian Boyle and Dan Boyle and got neither.

Getting older doesn't mean that you're getting worse. That's the mentality though especially on these boards is that every team has to get younger.

The Islanders will have Dal Colle in the next year or so as well.

And I'm not saying that they have to trade Strome 100%. If you can get some return with any other of the young guys, then by all means. But you will get the best return with Strome.

Yes, I guess we will have to disagree.

I'd say the flaw in your logic is that you think there is a dire desire to "succeed"(whatever that vague term means) right now.
 

FifthLine

@AHartScout
Jul 2, 2011
2,835
52
toronto
No d man in the league is getting paid 7 mil per if they are not on there teams top powerplay...

Any 2nd unit Powerplay guy is getting around 5 mil max.

Phaneuf should soon become a 2nd PP unit guy considering how good Rielly and Gardiner are...

I get that Phaneuf is our minute munching guy and he has some defensive prowess compared to the rest of our blueline...But look around the league.

Guys like M.Staal, Girardi, Hamonic, Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic.... These guys are all BETTER minute munching 5 on 5 defensive d men then Dion is... But Dion gets paid more because he also plays the top unit powerplay...If Dion is just a minute munching 5 on 5 guy then id rather have a guy like those listed who is better at it and paid significantly less.

Yeah, i agree its just as a cap strategist your not gonna like that cap hit when Rielly and Gardiner should be taking over top powerplay duty soon.

I don't know what your obsession is with this powerplay thing is. There is much more to hockey then PPs. Dion is not one of those guys who do one thing. As much hate as he gets, he's one of the few dmen in this league that can play your #1PP, #1 PK, and still play against the other teams top players. Only a few guys in the league can do it.

Are there better offensive dmen? Of course.

Are there better defensive dmen? Of course.

But in terms of being an all round player, there aren't that many that are significantly better.

So the way you bring up the PP thing as if that is his only value, is an asinine statement to make.
 
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