2014 Draft Discussion (June 27-28 in Philadelphia)

[newfy]

If one of those big skilled Canadians fall I could see the wings moving up. Its clear they want a bigger, harder to play against team. If Ritchie or Virtanen stick around for a bit it could happen

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Watching this Mem Cup game, I'd really like the Wings to take Fabbri if available. His combination of skating and total effort makes him really tough to play against. He reminds me of the sort of guys the Canadiens are icing. You think "nah, they're small." But they outwork you, outskate you, and they're gritty.

I'll admit that I was a bit worried about Fabbri's size earlier in the season. Not anymore. Put him with a lower effort guy like Franzen or Mantha and watch how much easier the game becomes for them. He's a buzzsaw for a smaller guy.

Of course, the hard part is seeing him available at 15. But oh well. I figure one of Fabbri and McCann should be available.

 

[newfy]

Watching this Mem Cup game, I'd really like the Wings to take Fabbri if available. His combination of skating and total effort makes him really tough to play against. He reminds me of the sort of guys the Canadiens are icing. You think "nah, they're small." But they outwork you, outskate you, and they're gritty.

I'll admit that I was a bit worried about Fabbri's size earlier in the season. Not anymore. Put him with a lower effort guy like Franzen or Mantha and watch how much easier the game becomes for them. He's a buzzsaw for a smaller guy.

Of course, the hard part is seeing him available at 15. But oh well. I figure one of Fabbri and McCann should be available.

Disagree. I became more worried. I wouldnt hate the pick but he gets laid out at least once every single game as a junior, that doesnt bode well for the NHL at all. At 15 it might be worth the risk, but these games did nothing to reduce my worries about him. Everyone knew he had a tonne of skill, bu hes not like Nyquist or Pav that never gets hit at their size.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Disagree. I became more worried. I wouldnt hate the pick but he gets laid out at least once every single game as a junior, that doesnt bode well for the NHL at all. At 15 it might be worth the risk, but these games did nothing to reduce my worries about him. Everyone knew he had a tonne of skill, bu hes not like Nyquist or Pav that never gets hit at their size.

In my defense, I wrote that right after he had an amazing shift.

You're right in that I don't think he could play as physical/risky of a game as he does in the OHL. He likes to engage physically and doesn't mind being hit. I don't think he's the next Brule, though. I mean, I only have to point to Pulkkinen as a smaller guy who regularly gets pasted who should be just fine at the NHL level. I'm sure both players will smarten up a bit as they advance. I mean, nobody really WANTS to be hit... right?

I'm actually not so sure, in Pulkkinen's case...

 

[Wolverine Wings]

Watching this Mem Cup game, I'd really like the Wings to take Fabbri if available. His combination of skating and total effort makes him really tough to play against. He reminds me of the sort of guys the Canadiens are icing. You think "nah, they're small." But they outwork you, outskate you, and they're gritty.

I'll admit that I was a bit worried about Fabbri's size earlier in the season. Not anymore. Put him with a lower effort guy like Franzen or Mantha and watch how much easier the game becomes for them. He's a buzzsaw for a smaller guy.

Of course, the hard part is seeing him available at 15. But oh well. I figure one of Fabbri and McCann should be available.

Can we stop the trope of Mantha being a low-effort player? Being an almost GPG player should assuage this, you don't score that much that often if you aren't consistent. He looks lazy because his strides are long and his shifts were double the length of what should be expected. He never really took a shift off, he just had to pace himself when he's playing half a game; on top of that, I thought he was pretty great defensively in the QMJHL Championship and Memorial Cup, he used his reach and size to breakup a good number of opportunities and has progressed extremely well in this regard.

Is he perfect? Heck no, but he doesn't need to be either. I think his game his really subtle and requires a very devoted eye, focusing just on him. He simply doesn't play the game you would expect of a big, rangy player and I think people make a critical error when analyzing him because of that.

Mantha doesn't even play like prime Franzen, so I don't see this comparison or association as particularly valid.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Can we stop the trope of Mantha being a low-effort player? Being an almost GPG player should assuage this, you don't score that much that often if you aren't consistent. He looks lazy because his strides are long and his shifts were double the length of what should be expected. He never really took a shift off, he just had to pace himself when he's playing half a game; on top of that, I thought he was pretty great defensively in the QMJHL Championship and Memorial Cup, he used his reach and size to breakup a good number of opportunities and has progressed extremely well in this regard.

Is he perfect? Heck no, but he doesn't need to be either. I think his game his really subtle and requires a very devoted eye, focusing just on him. He simply doesn't play the game you would expect of a big, rangy player and I think people make a critical error when analyzing him because of that.

Mantha doesn't even play like prime Franzen, so I don't see this comparison or association as particularly valid.

Low effort wasn't the right way to put that, because I don't believe it. But he's also not a high motor guy like a Darren Helm. He'll never be an energy player. He slows the game down rather than speeds it up, and too many of those players on the same line is a bad idea. That's what I meant.

But Mantha and Franzen do share the quality of not playing with pace. I'm sticking to that one. Maybe Mantha can drop that quality with time, but as of right now that is certainly how he plays. Bear in mind that it's not necessarily a bad thing, because there have been great players who didn't play with pace. But those guys generally did play with energetic guys who could get them the puck, which was my original point.

 

[hot dog]

In my defense, I wrote that right after he had an amazing shift.

You're right in that I don't think he could play as physical/risky of a game as he does in the OHL. He likes to engage physically and doesn't mind being hit. I don't think he's the next Brule, though. I mean, I only have to point to Pulkkinen as a smaller guy who regularly gets pasted who should be just fine at the NHL level. I'm sure both players will smarten up a bit as they advance. I mean, nobody really WANTS to be hit... right?

I'm actually not so sure, in Pulkkinen's case...

Still, Pulkinnen has like 20 pounds on Fabbri. At least. Eliteprospects has Fabbri at 165 (just so, so small) and Pulks at 198. Granted, Pulkinnen is 4 years older... but Fabbri really needs to add some weight if he's going to play in the NHL. Even Zuccarello clocks in at 175, St. Louis at 176, Krug at 180, Gerbe at 178... Desharnais is only like 170... not sure where these guys were at in their draft years, and I'm sure all gained weight.

but he needs to add muscle. I think he can be very good, but he should add at least 10-15 pounds.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Just want to point out to those discussing size, Kronwall was around 5'10" and 165 on draft day.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Still, Pulkinnen has like 20 pounds on Fabbri. At least. Eliteprospects has Fabbri at 165 (just so, so small) and Pulks at 198. Granted, Pulkinnen is 4 years older... but Fabbri really needs to add some weight if he's going to play in the NHL. Even Zuccarello clocks in at 175, St. Louis at 176, Krug at 180, Gerbe at 178... Desharnais is only like 170... not sure where these guys were at in their draft years, and I'm sure all gained weight.

but he needs to add muscle. I think he can be very good, but he should add at least 10-15 pounds.

That was the year Pulks got too big and then lost weight back to around 185 these days.

If Fabbri plays as tenacious as he does and clocks in north of 180 we should be fine.

Nill basically outed us on lying about Zetterberg at his presser. Think he called him 170 lbs soaking wet. Claude Giroux checks in around 170 and change, think it is 172 or something like that. Honestly Claude Giroux has the exact same measurements as Hilary Knight, think about that. It is about this kids understanding of leverage and I do think you can expect another 15 lbs. He is one of the few from this year I actually kind of like especially for where we should be picking.

 

[Marky9er]

I think Fabbri would be a perfect target. He's a guy who generates speed and creates opportunity. I was gung-ho for getting bigger players myself, but I don't any players with size and as much upside as Fabbri making it past pick 10/11 at the latest. Specifically Ritchie and Perlini.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

i could see us going for the local boy who is going to michigan to be coached by babcocks idol who is a future captain material, Dylan Larkin.

he would be taking the longer route to the NHl which suits us perfect given all the depth we have ready both now and in the near future

plus he is bigger and thats the direction we seem to be taking a bit lately to round out our team

a "project" player screams red wings right now

 

[Frk It]

Didn't realize Larkin was such a good skater.

He's a world class skater. . . He'll be a high draft pick. He has a good head for the game, great offensive instincts. High IQ. --- Michigan Assistant Coach Brian Wiseman

"He's probably one of the best skaters we've had come through in a long time but he's also diligent; he's interested in his defensive zone. He wants to be a Steve Yzerman-type player."

- USNDTP Head Coach Danton Cole

 

[WesNichols14]

Didn't realize Larkin was such a good skater.

Wheres the register? I'm sold.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

larkin it is....

see you in four years kid.

 

[Frk It]

larkin it is....

see you in four years kid.

Don't think he has too much offensive potential.

Seems similar to a better skating Abdelkader, with better intangibles.

Id much rather get a guy like Scherbak or Fiala. Higher offensive upside.

Or if we want a project... A guy like Ho-Sang or Scmaltz.

 

[mindfly]

Is McCann 100% picked before us?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Don't think he has too much offensive potential.

Seems similar to a better skating Abdelkader, with better intangibles.

Id much rather get a guy like Scherbak or Fiala. Higher offensive upside.

Or if we want a project... A guy like Ho-Sang or Scmaltz.

yah for now i would say thats fair

perhaps though it develops in the years to come

big kid who can skate well and thinks the game and thats leadership/captain material is a pretty good combo, plus the local connection and college route means increased development time which suits us better then chl/ahl within a year guys

i think anyhow

 

[Laser Rayzor]

Is McCann 100% picked before us?

At 15 maybe not, but no chance he's available if/when KH trades down.

 

[Ennui]

It doesn't seem like Larkin will be the 1st rd. Choice for the Wings; yes, the Wings need centers, but they need centers to go through GR, and need forwards who are going to heavily contribute offensively.

Also, WAY too much is being made of the "local boy" factor. How is that working out with Weiss or Legwand? Abdelkader and DeKeyser should be enough to satisfy that gimmick crowd, I don't care if the pick hails from Timbuktu so long as he is BPA.

 

[InjuredChoker]

It doesn't seem like Larkin will be the 1st rd. Choice for the Wings; yes, the Wings need centers, but they need centers to go through GR, and need forwards who are going to heavily contribute offensively.

Also, WAY too much is being made of the "local boy" factor. How is that working out with Weiss or Legwand? Abdelkader and DeKeyser should be enough to satisfy that gimmick crowd, I don't care if the pick hails from Timbuktu so long as he is BPA.

weiss is an ontario boy.

 

[ChadS]

Larkin is about 6'0-6'1 so I wouldn't say he's big. He was good on faceoffs and skated well at the U18's but didn't really show anything special offensively. Don't know if he's worth it at #15...

 

[SoupNazi]

Part II is up.