Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[Savant]

The kid is 23. D-Men take longer to develop. He has a high ceiling and has played rather steady for us thus far. He is still learning.

People on these boards need to learn patience.

Sounds like what people were saying about del Zotto. If you don't think Moore is a 2nd pairing LHD in the future there is no reason to keep him and let his value drop. People on the boards need to learn about asset management.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

The kid is 23. D-Men take longer to develop. He has a high ceiling and has played rather steady for us thus far. He is still learning.

People on these boards need to learn patience.

It's getting close to crunch time for Moore--he's played in over 200 NHL games (counting playoff games) and really needs to become much more focused on the ice and get better at anticipating the play. Playing with a steady veteran took the spotlight away from him, but he was still making running around way too much. I just don't know if he sees the game well enough to get much better than he is now.

 

[Savant]

Seeing the guys still available that are going to sign far cheaper then Glass drives me nuts. I can't believe we signed that **** bag for 1.4.

Penner
Carter
Konopka
Malone
Leino
Tootoo
Bertuzzi
Setoguchi

Unreal

If Vigneault didn't want Glass, the Rangers wouldn't have signed him. Let him play a game first before crucifying him. The contract isn't good but the coach obviously wanted him.

 

[BBKers]

Apparently, Duclair's contract doesn't slide. Graves doesn't slide until the end of camp, so we're currently at 50 contracts and can't yet sign Moore. Someone has to be moved.

Opinions differ here on Duclair ( see Bourque thread).
Believe NYR org has it right and capgeek has it wrong
Both Duclair and Graves slide
Has nothing to do with camp as they have yet to go pro
48
Moore
49
One spot still open

 

[slipknottin]

Sounds like what people were saying about del Zotto. If you don't think Moore is a 2nd pairing LHD in the future there is no reason to keep him and let his value drop. People on the boards need to learn about asset management.

When you have a guy that can skate like Moore, you keep them around to see if they continue to develop. Those arent guys you get rid of early on

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Sounds like what people were saying about del Zotto. If you don't think Moore is a 2nd pairing LHD in the future there is no reason to keep him and let his value drop. People on the boards need to learn about asset management.

Yes--some of us are familiar with asset management too--but I'd rather see Moore lose the spot in training camp or during the season, rather than just hope that a prospect or one of the defensemen signed over the summer can be a solid replacement. How many NHL games have Stu Bickel, Steve Eminger and Jeff Woywithka played in the NHL since 2011-2012? I really don't want to see that kind of defense again.

 

[Savant]

When you have a guy that can skate like Moore, you keep them around to see if they continue to develop. Those arent guys you get rid of early on

Moore isn't exactly a prospect. He has a ton of NHL games under his belt. I wouldn't say the Rangers would be getting rid of him early.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

PS: Bickel, Eminger and Woywitka played in 110 games (22 games during the playoffs) that season.

 

[slipknottin]

Moore isn't exactly a prospect. He has a ton of NHL games under his belt. I wouldn't say the Rangers would be getting rid of him early.

Hes been here for a season and a half. And hes improved, IMO, quite a bit.

 

[Savant]

Yes--some of us are familiar with asset management too--but I'd rather see Moore lose the spot in training camp or during the season, rather than just hope that a prospect or one of the defensemen signed over the summer can be a solid replacement. How many NHL games have Stu Bickel, Steve Eminger and Jeff Woywithka played in the NHL since 2011-2012? I really don't want to see that kind of defense again.

Do you not think Connor Allen is ready for 3rd pairing NHL minutes? I think he is, especially next to a guy like Klein.

Do you think John Moore can handle consistent 2nd pairing minutes next to Dan Boyle?

You know what you have with Moore, if he loses a spot in training camp his value goes in the toilet due to him getting beat out. His value isn't going to get higher with another season on third pairing.

 

[Savant]

PS: Bickel, Eminger and Woywitka played in 110 games (22 games during the playoffs) that season.

You mean the season they almost won the President's Trophy in?

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Do you not think Connor Allen is ready for 3rd pairing NHL minutes? I think he is, especially next to a guy like Klein.

Do you think John Moore can handle consistent 2nd pairing minutes next to Dan Boyle?

You know what you have with Moore, if he loses a spot in training camp his value goes in the toilet due to him getting beat out. His value isn't going to get higher with another season on third pairing.

Defensemen take longer--as I said in my original post, Moore has only played in around 200 NHL games: last season was really his first full season as a regular (he only played in 30 regular season games in the lockout year and played over 20 games in the AHL his last season with the Blue Jackets).

I don't know if Moore can ultimately play effectively on the second pair. But, I do know that he can play on the NHL level and that teams do think he has potential.

The clock ticking, but I don't think he's traded before training camp, unless the Rangers get tired of his contract "demands".

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

You mean the season they almost won the President's Trophy in?

Yes, the season where 4 defensemen were playing too many minutes after Sauer was hurt and ultimately ran out of gas.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to that rotation of scrubs on the 3rd pair. If Strålman hadn't come along, the Rangers would not have gone as far as they did.

 

[Tawnos]

You mean the season they almost won the President's Trophy in?

Yeah, which was also the season where the way the Rangers went out was almost laughably predictable. Fatigue did them in.

 

[Savant]

Yes, the season where 4 defensemen were playing too many minutes after Sauer was hurt and ultimately ran out of gas.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to that rotation of scrubs on the 3rd pair. If Strålman hadn't come along, the Rangers would not have gone as far as they did.

I wouldn't call Connor Allen a scrub. I think he could pretty easily handle Moore's workload. Allen is no Bickel. Moore's value goes down before it goes up. If I can move him for a prospect or a 2nd I jump on it.

 

[Savant]

Yeah, which was also the season where the way the Rangers went out was almost laughably predictable. Fatigue did them in.

That's not the point I was making. I'm saying that if you can almost win the presidents trophy with Bickel and friends playing bottom pairing minutes, there is no reason that they can't get away with Allen in that role. Not to mention Klein really steadies that pairing.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

I wouldn't call Connor Allen a scrub. I think he could pretty easily handle Moore's workload. Allen is no Bickel. Moore's value goes down before it goes up. If I can move him for a prospect or a 2nd I jump on it.

I didn't call Allen a scrub, but I have no idea if he can play a full season as well as Moore can. I want the Rangers back in the mix for the finals and until I'm sure something better has replaced Moore, I wouldn't just cut him loose. Doubt the Rangers do too.

 

[Tawnos]

That's not the point I was making. I'm saying that if you can almost win the presidents trophy with Bickel and friends playing bottom pairing minutes, there is no reason that they can't get away with Allen in that role. Not to mention Klein really steadies that pairing.

Almost winning the President's Trophy and getting knocked out in the ECF isn't as good as coming in 2nd in the Metro and going to the SCF. The depth route is better. Not playing McDonagh/Girardi 25+ per night is better.

People keep claiming that Connor Allen is as good as John Moore, but one of them is an NHL defenseman and the other isn't. If Allen knocks Moore out of the everyday lineup, that's one thing. But to assume that he can play the same number of minutes as Moore effectively isn't the way to go about this.

 

[surlysailor]

Do you not think Connor Allen is ready for 3rd pairing NHL minutes? I think he is, especially next to a guy like Klein.

Do you think John Moore can handle consistent 2nd pairing minutes next to Dan Boyle?

You know what you have with Moore, if he loses a spot in training camp his value goes in the toilet due to him getting beat out. His value isn't going to get higher with another season on third pairing.

I personally think Moore will be better than Allen. He's younger than Allen and has a ton more experience already. You're willing to give up a 23yo 1st rounder with 200 games experience for a 25 year old who has played 4 games or so? How can you say Allen can handle those minutes after 4 or so games?

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Allen would be more even but less flash. He is a very even keel player. Makes good simple plays. Fluid skater but not super fast. Just very quiet efficiency.

The difference is, Moore provides a much higher ceiling. However, I think the fact that they had to go out and get Dan Boyle is telling. Moore was touted as an offensive defenseman. I haven't seen it.

 

[Mikos87]

I wouldn't call Connor Allen a scrub. I think he could pretty easily handle Moore's workload. Allen is no Bickel. Moore's value goes down before it goes up. If I can move him for a prospect or a 2nd I jump on it.

Yeah I feel the same way. The Rangers had to shelter JMoore in the playoffs quite a bit, and did the same in the regular season. As much as Justin Falk even.

I've seen enough where I don't trust him during crunch time. He hasn't earned the fan's ire yet, but when I look the number of OT losses the Rangers had in the playoffs the last couple of seasons, and I look at who was on the ice, I see JMoore quite often.

I don't think he has a compete level or consistency high enough to contribute to a winner. Time to move on.

 

[Mikos87]

I wouldn't call Connor Allen a scrub. I think he could pretty easily handle Moore's workload. Allen is no Bickel. Moore's value goes down before it goes up. If I can move him for a prospect or a 2nd I jump on it.

I think Allen would be more even but less flash. He is a very even keel player. Makes good simple plays. Fluid skater but not super fast. Just very quiet efficiency.

The difference is, Moore provides a much higher ceiling. However, I think the fact that they had to go out and get Dan Boyle is telling. Moore was touted as an offensive defenseman. I haven't seen it.

Only thing Allen lacks is speed when compared to JMoore. There is something to be said about a defenseman who is composed and isn't afraid to take a hit to make a play, or is consistently engaged, and thinks the game well and doesn't go through the motions.

I see a one as a dedicated and emotionally mature athlete, and I see the other as a gifted athlete that needs to be sheltered.

 

[Championship*]

You mean the season they almost won the President's Trophy in?

I mean the season where they broke down towards the end of the playoffs because Tort's couldn't trust his bottom pairing D-men. PLAYOFFS.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Hes been here for a season and a half. And hes improved, IMO, quite a bit.

This.

The lack of patience for J Moore by the same fanbase who many wanted to keep giving Del Zotto more chances before he was finally traded is astounding.

Moore is a perfectly adequate 3rd-pair defenseman, which is the role being asked of him right now. He will continue to improve. He's still young, and most defensemen don't reach their prime until their late-twenties.

Have some patience. Not every defenseman is Ryan McDonagh.

John Moore is a valuable, cost-controlled asset. There's no reason to want to part ways with him. Conor Allen (who seems to be getting plenty of unwarranted hype all of a sudden) is older and has far less NHL experience. I'm not sure how he makes J Moore expendable already.

 

[slipknottin]

I wouldn't call Connor Allen a scrub. I think he could pretty easily handle Moore's workload. Allen is no Bickel. Moore's value goes down before it goes up. If I can move him for a prospect or a 2nd I jump on it.

I wouldn't call Allen anything special either. Right now he's not as good a player as Moore