2007 Draft: "Deep" or "Unspectacular"

turnbuckle*

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Just because they've been ranked above those three on certain lists doesn't make them, more "spectacular" now, does it?

I'd hardly call Alzneer, Logan Couture or JVR "spectacular." I guess it depends on your meaning of the word.

I look at it this way - Derick Brassard would be in the running for the top pick this season, as would Okposo. if Backstrom, Kessel, Toews, Johnson, Staal were available this year, they'd be favourites for the top spot. That tells me that this is not a spectacular draft.

I don't think McKenzie and the scouts he counselled before reaching that conclusion are blowing smoking out of their posteriors.
 

brightscout

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Many players in this draft could become superstars in the NHL. Just look at Gagner and Kane, they are completely burning the OHL this year. The question is what they will become at the next level. This case is the case for many players in this year's draft. Put 20-30 pounds on 6-7 players I have in my mind in this draft and we would talk of this draft as a draft that that has great high-end talent.


Lots of great potential but lots of question marks too. Will Player A fill out more? Will he adjust his game at the next level? Etc...
 

kimzey59

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Is trading down a few spots a possibility from the Flyers' perspective, assuming we end up with the 1st overall?


This may be better suited to the Trade rumors forum but the Blues would gladly offer you our first plus one of the firsts we get from Tkachuk/Guerin to get the #1 pick. I would love to have a future top line of Cherepanov-Berglund-Oshie to go along with an EJ anchored blueline.
 

Form and Substance

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I'm atually quite excited about this year's draft. It looks like there may be a ton of sleepers. I like the fact that there is no clear cut consensus. I mean Kane, Cherepanov, Voracek, Van Riemsdyk, Esposito, Alzner, Gagner, Couture, et al... all have the potential to develop into good first line/number 1 defensemen types. That kind of parity across the board should not be overlooked.
 

Langway

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I actually thought his comment was pretty accurate...after those three the crop is pretty unspectacular...I'd also opine that it's not very deep. Players that in most years would be ranked in the 30-50s are being considered for the first round of this draft. It's deep in unspectacularism. The key is to find some hidden gems as there always are. I have a feeling a few of them may come from the USHS.
I think you're dead on with this, along with the USHL to an extent. I don't know enough about the '07 prospects coming out of the USHS but I've been intrigued by a number of them. I'm hoping that Washington picks a couple of these guys because a. they tend to fly under the radar somewhat and b. the Caps' AHL affiliate is becoming crowded based on the abundance of their recent draft picks. Picking three or four guys that'll learn & develop in the NCAA would make a lot of sense for them and could pay off large.
 

Boocock

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Philly trading down is one of the ideas I had thought of from their perspective. The draft is deep. They already have an extra 1st and 3rd. If they get 4 draft picks (2 1sts from a trade, 1 first from Nashville, their 2nd pick) in the First 31, that would be instrumental in their rebuilding process.
 

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just my impression but this draft is alot like 2003 where you had alot of depth but no real big names(although Staal has turned out great since then as well as a few others) at the top.

It's basically a good draft to have alot of picks in the first few rounds, not so great draft if you are picking top 10.
 

JEI

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Deep and Unspectacular.

Good depth through the first couple rounds, but no sure fire superstars..at least not at the moment.

It'd be wise to stockpile alot of 2nd rounders IMO.
 

Slitty

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Russia- very slightly up from last year

Can you explain your reasoning behind this, because the general outlook is that Russia is significantly up from last year and that 2007 is one of the deeper drafts for Russians in quite some time. Perhaps even the deepest since 2003.
 

mercury

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This may be better suited to the Trade rumors forum but the Blues would gladly offer you our first plus one of the firsts we get from Tkachuk/Guerin to get the #1 pick. I would love to have a future top line of Cherepanov-Berglund-Oshie to go along with an EJ anchored blueline.

I doubt that we'd want to trade down from #1 or #2 to #10, but that is a pretty good offer value-wise. It would be cool to have three first rounders in a draft with decent depth.
 

daynus

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yah we should just sit.

I doubt that we'd want to trade down from #1 or #2 to #10, but that is a pretty good offer value-wise. It would be cool to have three first rounders in a draft with decent depth.

Keep the first/second pick, late first from nashville and our second. not sure if we have any intention of trading sanderson. a second and something else, may give us more picks.
 

daynus

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I agree

the St.Louis proposal, would be something to consider. 3 first rounders would be very good, and our first pick in the second is like a late first rounder, so we could almost be talking about 4.
 

mercury

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the St.Louis proposal, would be something to consider. 3 first rounders would be very good, and our first pick in the second is like a late first rounder, so we could almost be talking about 4.

I really want to see Nashville do well, but I also want our picks to be as high as possible, too. If we traded with the Blues and the Preds don't advance far in the playoffs, we'd have something like #10, #20, #25, and #31.
 

Hiishawk

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Can you explain your reasoning behind this, because the general outlook is that Russia is significantly up from last year and that 2007 is one of the deeper drafts for Russians in quite some time. Perhaps even the deepest since 2003.
Well we're talking about top end here, not marginal players. Last year Russia had Anisimov, Varlamov, Alexandrov, Tupulov, Vasyunov (and maybe Makarov) as consensus top 40-50 players. This year there is Cherepanov as a possible #1, Korostin and Mayorov as top 20, and maybe the defenceman Goncharev (#5) as top 40 picks but it drops off after that (very good) high end. I can't see Karamnov, Isaev, Bakika, Davydov etc. going all that high- nor do most ranking services.
Are there other higly regarded Russians out there (like late 88s?). If so, I haven't been hearing much about them and my ear is very much to the ground.
 

daynus

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the only thing is mercury

I really want to see Nashville do well, but I also want our picks to be as high as possible, too. If we traded with the Blues and the Preds don't advance far in the playoffs, we'd have something like #10, #20, #25, and #31.

With the estimated picks that you have, which is very possible, if we took the best player available we would end up with oh 3 defenseman and 1 goalie-based out of team needs. Where as if we sit on what we have, it would probably be a forward, a defenseman and another defenseman or goalie.
 

Buffalo87

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Just because they've been ranked above those three on certain lists doesn't make them, more "spectacular" now, does it?

I'd hardly call Logan Couture or JVR "spectacular." I guess it depends on your meaning of the word.

I look at it this way - Derick Brassard would be in the running for the top pick this season, as would Okposo. if Backstrom, Kessel, Toews, Johnson, Staal were available this year, they'd be favourites for the top spot. That tells me that this is not a spectacular draft.

I don't think McKenzie and the scouts he counselled before reaching that conclusion are blowing smoking out of their posteriors.

The original post said it's pretty weak after those 3, all I'm saying is that the guys I named off are just as good, if not better than, the 3 he named. Nowhere did I say any of them are spectacular. This draft is definitly lacking top end talent, but definitly has more depth than last year IMO.
 

Slitty

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Well we're talking about top end here, not marginal players. Last year Russia had Anisimov, Varlamov, Alexandrov, Tupulov, Vasyunov (and maybe Makarov) as consensus top 40-50 players. This year there is Cherepanov as a possible #1, Korostin and Mayorov as top 20, and maybe the defenceman Goncharev (#5) as top 40 picks but it drops off after that (very good) high end. I can't see Karamnov, Isaev, Bakika, Davydov etc. going all that high- nor do most ranking services.
Are there other higly regarded Russians out there (like late 88s?). If so, I haven't been hearing much about them and my ear is very much to the ground.

Well given the thread title and content I was under the impression we were discussing draft depth rather than top end talent. However, if its only the top 40 picks that interest you, lets take a look at those in 2006:

23 - Varlamov
33 - Makarov
37 - Alexandrov

Yes, all Russian players fell in the draft somewhat due to lack of a transfer agreement, but at this point its looking like that variable will remain for the 2007 draft as well. One could argue that even without the transfer agreement Anisimov and Kulemin belonged in the top 40 as well, but the same can however be said for Alexandrov not belonging in the top 40. The fact of the matter remains, Russia-88 is on the whole quite underwhelming, leading to only three Russian "top end" picks by your definition. You have mentioned Cherepanov, Korostin, Mayorov, and Goncharov as potential players to go in the top 40: that right there would give Russia more players in the first two round, probably with a higher average draft number. I don't know why you or the ranking services don't see Karamnov going as high as the aforementioned players (perhaps you could explain?) - many in Russia regard him as the most talented out of the bunch, including Cherepanov. On top of that, I would say that Grachev, Bashkirov, and Seleznev all have a shot at the top two rounds. Yet, even if they are selected later or even not selected at all; the average player quality and depth of Russia's 1989 generation is significantly better than that of the '88 borns.

PS: I personally like Gennady Churilov and Denis Osipov best in terms of overagers.
 

Hiishawk

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Well given the thread title and content I was under the impression we were discussing draft depth rather than top end talent. However, if its only the top 40 picks that interest you, lets take a look at those in 2006:

23 - Varlamov
33 - Makarov
37 - Alexandrov

Yes, all Russian players fell in the draft somewhat due to lack of a transfer agreement, but at this point its looking like that variable will remain for the 2007 draft as well. One could argue that even without the transfer agreement Anisimov and Kulemin belonged in the top 40 as well, but the same can however be said for Alexandrov not belonging in the top 40. The fact of the matter remains, Russia-88 is on the whole quite underwhelming, leading to only three Russian "top end" picks by your definition. You have mentioned Cherepanov, Korostin, Mayorov, and Goncharov as potential players to go in the top 40: that right there would give Russia more players in the first two round, probably with a higher average draft number. I don't know why you or the ranking services don't see Karamnov going as high as the aforementioned players (perhaps you could explain?) - many in Russia regard him as the most talented out of the bunch, including Cherepanov. On top of that, I would say that Grachev, Bashkirov, and Seleznev all have a shot at the top two rounds. Yet, even if they are selected later or even not selected at all; the average player quality and depth of Russia's 1989 generation is significantly better than that of the '88 borns.

PS: I personally like Gennady Churilov and Denis Osipov best in terms of overagers.
Well, I think what you've said above more or less confirms my original estimation of it being "slightly better" than last year.

Gratchev and Bashkirov I would include in the Q list.

Karamnov simply is not a threat the way the other 3 forwards mentioned are. He's a reliable two-way man but nothing really jumps out at you in terms of top end skill, vision, creativity and so on.

I understand that Seleznev is a good late 88 pick right?

Also, included in the 89 birthdates would be Klyukin, Kropov and Churlayev- all good prospects, but 08 draft picks.
 

kimzey59

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I doubt that we'd want to trade down from #1 or #2 to #10, but that is a pretty good offer value-wise. It would be cool to have three first rounders in a draft with decent depth.

Just an FYI, as things stand now the Blues would have the #7 overall pick; and after we deal Tkachuk and Guerin that could easily go down to the 3rd or 4th overall. The drop wouldn't be nearly as big as you think(5 or 6 spots MAX).
 

Figgles*

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Just an FYI, as things stand now the Blues would have the #7 overall pick; and after we deal Tkachuk and Guerin that could easily go down to the 3rd or 4th overall. The drop wouldn't be nearly as big as you think(5 or 6 spots MAX).

This might not be a bad idea, since the Flyers have expressed interest in Kyle Turris, who should be available there.
 

Stealth JD

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Just an FYI, as things stand now the Blues would have the #7 overall pick; and after we deal Tkachuk and Guerin that could easily go down to the 3rd or 4th overall. The drop wouldn't be nearly as big as you think(5 or 6 spots MAX).


I don't know why the Blues would want to move up....Jarmo seems to prefer drafting further down than near the top....he'd probably prefer to have multiple picks rather than higher picks, especially considering the depth of this year's draft. I'd be very surprised to see them move their first pick up.....
 

MM425

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It's deep.

No home-run number 1 pick yes... but it's the type of draft that virtually everyone in 1st round will end up with a very soild prospect.

I'd also be willing to be that we see a few guys from this draft playing in the NHL next year...
 

orcatown

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Going into the year there seemed to be a couple of players that people had been waiting on. (such as Couture, Gillies, Backman, Esposito) But as things played out the top end guys did not show the advancement in play expected.

As a result people like Kane and Cherepanov have emerged. But it has been more a result of people dropping than them establishing themselves as can't miss franchise type players.

This has created a lot of mobility in the rating of players and a very fluid situation. Indeed the situation seems far from firmed up. I think there will be some more than usual surprises throughout the first rounds in terms of players rising and falling in the draft.

This creates the hope for some teams that some decent talent may fall into the second round. This, at least, creates the impression, and possibly the reality, of depth in the draft.
 

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